Thread: Tea Partiers Turn On Each Other

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Tea partiers turn on each other

By: Kenneth P. Vogel
November 19, 2009 11:41 PM EST

After emerging out of nowhere over the summer as a seemingly potent and growing political force, the tea party movement has become embroiled in internal feuding over philosophy, strategy and money and is at risk of losing its momentum.

The grass-roots activists driving the movement have become increasingly divided on such core questions as whether to focus their efforts on shaping policy debates or elections, work on a local, regional, state or national level or closely align themselves with the Republican Party, POLITICO found in interviews with tea party organizers in Washington and across the country.

Many of these differences date to the movement’s beginnings last winter in an outpouring of anger about the huge increases in government spending enacted by President Barack Obama and the Democratic Congress. But they were overshadowed by the initial explosion of activism that culminated during the congressional town hall meetings in August.

Now the disagreements and the sense of frustration they have engendered could diminish the movement’s potential influence in state and national politics.

“These groups don’t play as well together as they should,â€

Not a big deal, this was bound to happen. La Raza and other Anti-American groups have been at this longer than the Tea Parties.


Work it out Tea Party people and come together to fight the enemy forces that want to take away our freedom.

I was afraid of this. The tea parties started out as anti-tax. And that movement exploded. But then it became a catch all. When that happened, it lost its focus. There should be different movements for different issues. Otherwise it just gets too convoluted.

Oh no the Tea Parties are not lost - they were not only about Not taxing the Rich... Globalist or Corporate World. LOL

I bet the oppositions WISHES the TEA PARTIES were only about TAXES! LOL

I belong to Tea Party Patriots, the group that is nation wide and begain the Tea Party movement. It is about Liberty.

We don't need different groups for different issues. You either believe in Liberty or you don't.

Our aim is to promote--by education and political action--American principles of Liberty, Limited Government and the Free-Market

This relates to taxes, health care, cap and tax -you name it.

I think this guy must be using techniques from Rules for Radicals -

I think he is now trying to spread, in the media and throughout the country that they Tea Party movement is breaking apart and dying, (just like they did to the Republican party - if you can define it you can destroy it).

"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky

Hillary, Obama and the Cult of Alinsky: "True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties....

"One Alinsky benefactor was Wall Street investment banker Eugene Meyer, who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1930 to 1933. Meyer and his wife Agnes co-owned The Washington Post. They used their newspaper to promote Alinsky....Her series, called 'The Orderly Revolution', made Alinsky famous....

"Alinsky’s crowning achievement was his recruitment of a young high school student named Hillary Rodham. She met Alinsky through a radical church group. Hillary wrote an analysis of Alinsky’s methods for her senior thesis at Wellesley College. ...

"Many leftists view Hillary as a sell-out because she claims to hold moderate views on some issues. However, Hillary is simply following Alinsky’s counsel to do and say whatever it takes to gain power.

"Barack Obama is also an Alinskyite.... Obama spent years teaching workshops on the Alinsky method. In 1985 he began a four-year stint as a community organizer in Chicago, working for an Alinskyite group called the Developing Communities Project.... Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. While trying to build coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer." [by Richard Poe, 11-27-07] See also Community Oriented Policing

Tactics:

"Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. ... Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves." p.126
Always remember the first rule of power tactics (pps.127-134):

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.

3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'

"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

Poe, 11-27-07)

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

Great reply, cjbl2929 !

Originally Posted by cjbl2929

I belong to Tea Party Patriots, the group that is nation wide and begain the Tea Party movement. It is about Liberty.

We don't need different groups for different issues. You either believe in Liberty or you don't.

Our aim is to promote--by education and political action--American principles of Liberty, Limited Government and the Free-Market

This relates to taxes, health care, cap and tax -you name it.

I think this guy must be using techniques from Rules for Radicals -

I think he is now trying to spread, in the media and throughout the country that they Tea Party movement is breaking apart and dying, (just like they did to the Republican party - if you can define it you can destroy it).

"Obama learned his lesson well. I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday." --Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son of Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky

Hillary, Obama and the Cult of Alinsky: "True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism, Alinsky taught. They cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties....

"One Alinsky benefactor was Wall Street investment banker Eugene Meyer, who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1930 to 1933. Meyer and his wife Agnes co-owned The Washington Post. They used their newspaper to promote Alinsky....Her series, called 'The Orderly Revolution', made Alinsky famous....

"Alinsky’s crowning achievement was his recruitment of a young high school student named Hillary Rodham. She met Alinsky through a radical church group. Hillary wrote an analysis of Alinsky’s methods for her senior thesis at Wellesley College. ...

"Many leftists view Hillary as a sell-out because she claims to hold moderate views on some issues. However, Hillary is simply following Alinsky’s counsel to do and say whatever it takes to gain power.

"Barack Obama is also an Alinskyite.... Obama spent years teaching workshops on the Alinsky method. In 1985 he began a four-year stint as a community organizer in Chicago, working for an Alinskyite group called the Developing Communities Project.... Camouflage is key to Alinsky-style organizing. While trying to build coalitions of black churches in Chicago, Obama caught flak for not attending church himself. He became an instant churchgoer." [by Richard Poe, 11-27-07] See also Community Oriented Policing

Tactics:

"Tactics are those conscious deliberate acts by which human beings live with each other and deal with the world around them. ... Here our concern is with the tactic of taking; how the Have-Nots can take power away from the Haves." p.126
Always remember the first rule of power tactics (pps.127-134):

1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have."

2. "Never go outside the expertise of your people. When an action or tactic is outside the experience of the people, the result is confusion, fear and retreat.... [and] the collapse of communication.

3. "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy. Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)

4. "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."

5. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon. It is almost impossible to counteract ridicule. Also it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage."

6. "A good tactic is one your people enjoy."

7. "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."

8. "Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."

9. "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself."

10. "The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."

11. "If you push a negative hard and deep enough, it will break through into its counterside... every positive has its negative."

12. "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative."

13. Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...

"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'

"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)

Poe, 11-27-07)

http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/communism/alinsky.htm

When you combine all of those issues together, you are going to have a problem. You cant focus on all of those issues at the same time and have a successful, sustainable movement. Plus the more issues you involve in your movement, the more conflicted it will become. When in-fighting starts then the focus is lost to that in-fighting. You are never going to get all the people in a movement to agree on the details of all of those issues.

You are missing the point - higher taxes and government control is at the heart of all of these issues!

Cap and Tax ???? - hurts business and raises taxes and hurts American jobs

Health care - Hurts small business (doctors), hurts American jobs, raises taxes -

These are the two big issues now along with the deficient spending and all 3 affect TAXES, Gov Control.

I have met Independent Tea Party people, Democrat Tea Party people and Republican Tea Party people and guess what they all say?

NO MORE SPENDING - you spent all the money!
We don't have any money for your phoney health bill, we don't have any money for Cap and Tax, we don't have any money for.......

You can focus all you want on the divide and conquer premise but I have attended 10 Tea Party events from protesting health care to illegal aliens to Cap and Tax and at every single event I have met a large amount of Democrat's!

When it comes to the future of our childeren and country there is no more room for "charge it" and give the money to Acorn and SEIU!

Last night I went to dinner with a friend who from the age of 18 to now was a registered Democrat - she voted for Obama!
Well guess what? - at the age of 43 she has registered as a Republican so she can vote in next years primary - she says she has seen and had enough!

So don't go telling me about how divide and conquer is working!

I won't give in to Saul Alinsky's principals!

I have attended 10 Tea Party events from protesting health care to illegal aliens to Cap and Tax and at every single event I have met a large amount of Democrat's!

AWESOME!!! Keep up the good work!!!!

Originally Posted by cjbl2929

You are missing the point - higher taxes and government control is at the heart of all of these issues!

Cap and Tax ???? - hurts business and raises taxes and hurts American jobs

Health care - Hurts small business (doctors), hurts American jobs, raises taxes -

These are the two big issues now along with the deficient spending and all 3 affect TAXES, Gov Control.

I have met Independent Tea Party people, Democrat Tea Party people and Republican Tea Party people and guess what they all say?

NO MORE SPENDING - you spent all the money!
We don't have any money for your phoney health bill, we don't have any money for Cap and Tax, we don't have any money for.......

You can focus all you want on the divide and conquer premise but I have attended 10 Tea Party events from protesting health care to illegal aliens to Cap and Tax and at every single event I have met a large amount of Democrat's!

When it comes to the future of our childeren and country there is no more room for "charge it" and give the money to Acorn and SEIU!

Last night I went to dinner with a friend who from the age of 18 to now was a registered Democrat - she voted for Obama!
Well guess what? - at the age of 43 she has registered as a Republican so she can vote in next years primary - she says she has seen and had enough!

So don't go telling me about how divide and conquer is working!

I won't give in to Saul Alinsky's principals!

I understand all of those issues and I agree that they are interdependent on each other. However, when you try to incorporate all of them into a movement, you are going to weaken that movement because everyone in the movement is going to agree with some of the positions but not all of them. When you have a movement with one issue you can gather people who agree on that one issue and they will cohere on that one issue despite the fact that they may disagree on other issues. If you do gather a crowd who agree on every single issue you mentioned, it is going to be a small crowd and not very strong.