Judy, why are you still misrepresenting the alleged fairtax?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
The FairTax excludes the necessities of life from the FairTax through the rebate.
That is not entirely true, Judy. Why are you misrepresenting the alleged fairtax?
The alleged fairtax, in effect, allows for a rationed supply of tax free articles each month for every household, after which the full tax is paid, even upon the necessities of life. It does this under the “family consumption allowance” which is a monthly entitlement check sent to every household in America. This monthly check allows taxpayers, and especially the poor, to purchase a rationed supply of tax free necessities, which in turn makes voters with limited economic means, dependent upon the federal government for a portion of their monthly economic needs. Were we not warned in the Federalist Papers that control over a man’s subsistence amounts to a power over his will?
And tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell me Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column member in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
JWK
Judy, what you believe does not make it so
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnwk
Are you now admitting you misrepresented how the founders intended to tax consumption? Remember, you did write: "The FairTax taxes consumption as the founders intended . . ."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
No, I'm not. I believe the Founders would review the FairTax and go "damn, why didn't we think of that."
What you believe does not make it so. The fact is, as I have documented in POST NUMBER 37 the Founders method of taxing consumption is far different from the alleged fairtax, and the founders reasoning for taxing consumption as they did exhibits some of the faults in the alleged fairtax.
JWK
Why are you still making stuff up, Judy, about the alleged fairtax?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
Every US citizen and Legal Resident who wants it gets the Rebate. It's not based on income, only the amount is based on a formula that includes x amount for adults and a lower x amount for children, and that amount is based on the household consumption allowance determined by the annual poverty level to calculate the amount. It's not based on whether you're poor or rich, it's a rebate to any US citizen or Legal Resident Household in the US with a valid Social Security number who wants it, and they all receive the same amount based on the formula.
The Rebate is not an "entitlement", it's an exemption in a pre-determined amount per adult and another one per child to exclude necessities from the FairTax for consumers who are US citizens and Legal Residents with valid Social Security numbers.
The Rebate is not sent to "every household in America". That is a lie, Johnwk. Only US citizen and Legal Resident Households are eligible and the Rebate is only sent to those who sign up for it. You are free to sign up for it and free not to sign up for it. Your choice.
A rich person who chooses to sign up for it who has very expensive "necessities" gets the same amount as a very poor person with inexpensive "necessities". It's completely egalitarian, no special advantage to anyone except US citizens and Legal Residents with valid Social Security numbers.
In fact, the FairTax is completely egalitarian. Everyone who is a US Citizen and Legal Resident is treated exactly the same under the FairTax. Everyone who is not a US Citizen or Legal Resident, a visitor, tourist, and anyone else spending money on consumption of new products and services is treated the same except for the Rebate which is reserved for US citizens and Legial Residents, as it should be. It's why they named it the FairTax. I realize this pisses off people who think they're special and want a tax advantage for themselves at someone else's expense, but Americans are sick of that. We really are. We're sick and tired of the whining special interests who want special treatment because of this or that. In fact, people like MW think being treated equally is "fraud" and a "pitfall". Apparently you do too.
SAD!!
There you go again, Judy, not addressing what I have posted and how the alleged fairtax, its “family consumption allowance” is a gift to our Fifth Column socialist, communist and progressive members of Congress.
You never answered my questions.
And tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell me Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column member in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
Yes. The family consumption allowance is an entitlement to every qualified family.
From the actual Bill:
SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.
`Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of--
`(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and
`(2) the monthly poverty level.
`SEC. 302. QUALIFIED FAMILY.
`(a) General Rule- For purposes of this chapter, the term `qualified family' shall mean 1 or more family members sharing a common residence. All family members sharing a common residence shall be considered as part of 1 qualified family.
Why are you still making stuff up about the alleged fairtax?
JWK
The family consumption allowance is an entitlement for every qualified family
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
That is false. If people want to call a rebate an entitlement, I really could care less. But it is false to say that a monthly entitlement check is sent to every household in America. It is only sent to those who are US citizens and Legal Residents and choose to sign up for it.
Yes, Judy, the family consumption allowance is an entitlement for every qualified family.
From the actual Bill:
SEC. 301. FAMILY CONSUMPTION ALLOWANCE.
`Each qualified family shall be eligible to receive a sales tax rebate each month. The sales tax rebate shall be in an amount equal to the product of--
`(1) the rate of tax imposed by section 101, and
`(2) the monthly poverty level.
`SEC. 302. QUALIFIED FAMILY.
`(a) General Rule- For purposes of this chapter, the term `qualified family' shall mean 1 or more family members sharing a common residence. All family members sharing a common residence shall be considered as part of 1 qualified family.
Now that we have confirmed the alleged fairtax creates an entitlement, why do you persist in avoiding a discussion of how the family consumption allowance helps to make poor working people dependent upon government for a monthly rationed supply of tax free necessities of life?
Is it not true this monthly check allows taxpayers, and especially the poor, to purchase a rationed supply of tax free necessities, which in turn makes voters with limited economic means, dependent upon the federal government for a portion of their monthly economic needs? Were we not warned in the Federalist Papers that control over a man’s subsistence amounts to a power over his will?
And tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell me Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column member in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
JWK
Judy, why do you avoid talking about the consequences of government cheese
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
Tell us Johnwk, why do you lie on our own lies? You didn't say "qualified" in your first post, ....
In my post concerning the family consumption allowance I wrote:
The alleged FairTax, if adopted, would also put every American household on the public dole with the fairtax’s family consumption allowance, which would then allow our communists, socialists and progressives in Congress to bribe an overwhelming segment of our nation’s population with a higher family consumption allowance during every election.
After you challenged the comment, I then used specific language by writing: Yes. The family consumption allowance is an entitlement to every qualified family and went on to lay out the consequences of creating a new entitlement ___ consequences which you do not seem to want to discuss even though one of the consequences is the family consumption entitlement creates a massive voting block dependent upon a monthly government check for its subsistence.
Is it not true this monthly check allows taxpayers, and especially the poor, to purchase a rationed supply of tax free necessities, which in turn makes voters with limited economic means, dependent upon the federal government for a portion of their monthly economic needs? Were we not warned in the Federalist Papers that control over a man’s subsistence amounts to a power over his will?
And tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell me Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column member in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
JWK
There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country.
Judy, what about the consequenses of the family consumption entitlement?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
I'm a little confused by your irrationality, Johnwk. You've posted here for years about the evil of taxing "necessities of life" ... you quote the Founders, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers on this subject, yet now you are calling your own position communism by opposing a Rebate that exempts "necessities of life" from federal taxation under the FairTax. You've made a fatal Left Turn and stepped in your own Quicksand. Glub! Glub!
Farewell, ole friend!
:)
Well, now you have decided to post insults and a misrepresentation of my views rather than discuss the consequences of the family consumption allowance, one of which is, it creates a massive voting block dependent upon government for a monthly subsistence check.
I also noticed you indicate the "Rebate that exempts "necessities of life" from federal taxation under the FairTax." That is not entirely true, Judy.
Under the alleged fairtax, a monthly check is sent to every qualified household which may be used by the household as it pleases. The necessities of life are not exempt from the alleged "fairtax". By contrast, our founders intended that the necessities of life would not be taxed.
Why must you make stuff up to support the alleged fairtax?
JWK
If we can make 51 percent of America’s population dependent upon the federal government for its subsistence, we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ____ Our Fifth Column’s long term strategy ___ a plan to establish a federal plantation that confiscates and then redistributes the bread which labor, business and investors have worked to produce
Judy, why are you misrepresenting the alleged "fairtax"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
Quote:
Under the alleged fairtax, a monthly check is sent to every qualified household which may be used by the household as it pleases. The necessities of life are not exempt from the alleged "fairtax". By contrast, our founders intended that the necessities of life would not be taxed.
Under the FairTax, the Rebate ensures the "necessities of life" are not taxed if you're a US citizen or a legal resident, have a valid Social Security number, and want to sign up for the Rebate.
Judy,
What you say above is not true. You are misrepresenting the alleged "fairtax".
Under the alleged "fairtax", a 23 percent tax is added to the cost of food, clothing, medical needs, etc., and everyone who purchases these products when they go to the store pay the tax, and that includes poor working people. To alleviate the devastating increase in the cost of the necessities of life for poor working people, which the alleged fairtax adds to these products, qualified families are entitled to a monthly government check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities. This of course not only creates a new entitlement, but also makes poor working folks dependent upon government for a monthly check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities.
Under our Constitution's original tax plan, the necessities of life were not intended to be taxed, nor was there any monthly government check sent to the poor to be used to purchase the necessities of life.
Tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell us Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column members in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
JWK
There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country.
Judy, do you not see the danger in creating another dependent voting block?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
johnwk
Judy,
What you say above is not true. You are misrepresenting the alleged "fairtax".
Under the alleged "fairtax", a 23 percent tax is added to the cost of food, clothing, medical needs, etc., and everyone who purchases these products when they go to the store pay the tax, and that includes poor working people. To alleviate the devastating increase in the cost of the necessities of life for poor working people, which the alleged fairtax adds to these products, qualified families are entitled to a monthly government check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities. This of course not only creates a new entitlement, but also makes poor working folks dependent upon government for a monthly check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities.
Under our Constitution's original tax plan, the necessities of life were not intended to be taxed, nor was there any monthly government check sent to the poor to be used to purchase the necessities of life.
Tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?
Tell us Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column members in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?
JWK
There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
Yes, people with the Rebate have the money in hand to pay the FairTax which means they pay no FairTax on their purchases up to the amount of the exemption which is the same for everyone who signs up for it. Sorry Johnwk, but I have no problem at all with this feature of the FairTax. None whatsoever.
If you had no problem then you would have answered my above questions concerning the consequences of creating a massive voting block dependent upon a monthly government check, which allows them to purchase a rationed supply of tax free necessities.
JWK
A nation of people made dependent upon government for their subsistence, is a nation doomed to being enslaved by the iron fist which feeds them.
Why are you making more stuff up, Judy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Judy
There are very few "embedded" federal taxes outside of federal income tax. Some tariffs, imposts and duties, and a few excise taxes, all very small potatoes in the scheme of federal revenues.
The last time I checked, there are over one hundred embedded federal taxes on a loaf of bread. And the same applies to almost all consumer products. Why are you making stuff up, Judy?
JWK