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THIS IS A BIG DEAL, AND DESERVES TO READ IN ITS ENTIRETY.
The FairTax -- The Truth
By Neal Boortz
Tuesday, November 27, 2007
Last Thursday Townhall contributor Hank Adler published a column on this website entitled “A Hard Look At The Fair Tax (sic)â€
[b]Every household in America will receive a check or a credit to an account at the beginning of every month equal to the amount of FairTax that household would be expected to pay during that month on the basic necessities of life. Poverty figures for various family sizes from the Commerce Department will be used to calculate the size of this “prebate.â€
I would rather have this tax then a flat tax on income.
I am pretty sure I had also.
I just don't understand it. I don't have a problem with a sales tax. That does sound good. Everyone would be contributing that way. It's just when they start 'monkeying' around with the rules I get lost.
I'm not sure it needs to be as high as 22/23% though.
A flat sales tax - maybe just have food, medicene, etc., tax exempt and that's it.
There would be almost no beauracy involved. Don't know what all those IRS people would do - or tax attorneys - or CPA's - but I'm willing.
When they talk flat tax, are they talking EVERYTHING - new/used - homes - real estate???
Buying a home would be subject to the tax, BUT buying a home as investment property would NOT be subject to the tax. People wealthy enough to buy homes for investment get away tax-free while home buyers are stiffed.
What about State and Local sales taxes??? These govts. have to run also...so add those on. And what about taking money out of savings that has ALREADY been taxed and buying something, you will be taxed again, right?
I can't imagine the nightmare of trying to figure out just what each family would get at the beginning of the month and how much fraud this would entail. This is idiotic! It's a waste of time and money, just do, what has been suggested, and eliminate the tax on necessities!
In 2004, 144 million people or about 44% of the population had NO tax liability! This would certainly bring them into the fold, but do you think they will ever go along with paying something, that in their mind, they are NOT paying now??
The IRS is a massive agency with a LOT of power and don't think it will ever go away in our lifetime even though it's an interesting discussion. Congresspeople aren't going to give up their power to wield taxing authority. The tax business is BIG business. The throngs of people and businesses associated with taxes will never allow this to happen.
The answer is eliminate federal income taxes. The govt. would still have a couple trillion dollars to spend. End the massive entitlements. I recently read that 2 out of every 3 dollars spent by the govt goes to some type of entitlement program.
I'm with you, gofer, I don't think it will happen at not in any simple form.
I would like to see a simpler method, a more fair method, one that didn't need or have the government changing and pushing it one direction and then another.
The government/politicians use their deduction granting power to pay back contribitors by directing money into certain industries, etc. They won't give that up without a fight.
Personally, I've always felt that a flat tax of 10% for all individuals would be all that we need. 10% for each person... married or not, in all financial brackets... with no special tax breaks. That way, everyone would be paying a fair share: Ten cents on every dollar of income.
What do you all think?
I would rather see a 10/12% sales tax - no deduction - no exemption except for food and medicene.
Every year our CPA laughingly tells my husband how many more people, citizens that is, in this country are not paying taxes and don't even file a return. It's kinda like a newsflash he gives us every year when we send our papers.
So evidently lots of Americans are not paying taxes, more every year. It could mean they just aren't filing - but unless they owe money or are entitled to a small refund, I'm thinking most due a refund or EITC would file.
The illegals by and large pay no taxes.
A sales tax would get the illegals, those who don't pay income tax - the whole bunch, with very little enforcing or beauracy involved.
Of course, we might have to cut back on some of those things the federal government has mandated the states provide. It might be like the last tax cut when monies back to the states were cut. Our state found all kind of creative ways to increase the income to the state 'without raising taxes'.
I still came out of our pockets, however.
I think I like Ron Paul's idea best.
Eliminate the Federal Income tax and replace it with NOTHING.
To pay for it, eliminate EVERY government agency that's unconstitutional.
The IRS, for one.
Socialist Security for another. (A lot of us will never get a DIME.)
Eliminate most Cabinet positions that waste our money, and return those responsibilities to the States, where they Constitutionally BELONG.
It'll take TIME to get it done, and the time to start is NOW!
Ron Paul is the ONLY candidate WILLING TO SPEAK THE TRUTH about these things.
Don't forget to donate day after tomorrow, either. :wink:
I'd rather have no tax :DQuote:
Originally Posted by CitizenJustice
Also, this might be something to think about.
When inflation rises, usually prices go up and we all know that our wages do not increase with the "real inflation". Therefore, your dollar is buying less BUT you are still paying on that inflated amount per item. So in essence, you are earning less and paying more in taxes.
At least that is how i understand it.
MarkM
"Personally, I've always felt that a flat tax of 10% for all individuals would be all that we need. 10% for each person... married or not, in all financial brackets... with no special tax breaks. That way, everyone would be paying a fair share: Ten cents on every dollar of income. "
So, let me get this right.
10% if you make $10,000 = $1,000
10% if you make $100,000 = $10,000
Plus LOCAL, COUNTY, STATE and PROPERTY TAXES
10% if you make $1,000,000 = $100,000
10% if you make @10,000,000 = 1,000,000
If you tax income, you won't get everyone participating. That's the problem with the illegals right now.
Income tax of any kind would have to be enforced, checked on, etc.,and it just isn't going to happen.
Sales tax would simply be something you paid at the register and it would be paid into the government daily, weekly, quarterly.
This way, everyone in this country would be paying into the till.
I don't like a tax that the government has to somehow fiddle around with. With sales tax, just exempt the basic things - as food medical care. Everything else - pay the taxes and be done with it.
CitizenJustice
Yes, 10% across the board. Perhaps that should include Local, County and State Taxes. Property txes should be diminished.
If a person makes $10,000,000, they can get along just fine on $9,000,000! But we all know that such a person will claim every exemption in the book to get away from paying the tax... at least as it stands now.
I don't think there is an easy answer... but the following web page offers some suggestions; not to mention a good history about Income Taxes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax
One thing for sure is the fact that as it stands now, the scales aren't balanced... especially when we are taxed to death and Illegal Aliens get so many benefits at the expense of Taxpaying U.S. Citizens.
MarkM What about the illegals and the others that work under the table. Believe it or not, there are a fair amount of Americans who either don't report at all - or do a lot of work for cash.
So they still don't pay their part -
With sales tax = everybody pays.
nntrixie:
I was talking about U.S. Taxpaying Citizens. Of course we know that Illegals don't pay taxes. Sales taxes would make all purchasers contribute to the revenue, but it may not be enough to cover all of our nation's expenses. I was talking about income taxes that honest U.S. Taxpaying Citizens are having to pay while Illegals are getting a free ride.
Oh, I think it would be enough, especially if IRS and all its employees gone.
Yes, I think - if it were on everything - or almost everything.
Everyone who bought in the US, would be paying. Legal, illegal, tourists, foreign workers, etc.
I realize it will never happen as will a flat income tax never happen. The politicians use the tax code for all manner of payoffs to contributors.
It is absolutely amazing how the pushers of the alleged fair tax [H.R. 25], including Huckabee, beat their chests and brag that their tax reform plan will fund existing levels of federal spending under its revenue neutral feature. They are correct! The unavoidable fact is, H.R. 25 was carefully designed to bleed the American People so as to keep financing the Washington Establishment and its political plum job empire at current levels!
How dare someone would ever think of a tax reform plan which may actually encourage Congress to start closing down various offices and departments which have no constitutional basis whatsoever, such as the Department of Education, a creature of Congress which is there for no other reason than to provide countless political plum jobs to reward the friends of members of Congress.
We all know the federal Department of Education has approximately 5000 federal political plum job employees with excessive salaries, top of the shelf medical plans, and an outrageous pension program, all of which Mary and Joe Sixpack living in Iowa can only dream of having but would be gouged to finance under Huckabee’s fair tax plan. But the sad truth is, public education just happens to be a state constitutionally authorized function, not a federal function, and yet, Mary and Joe of Iowa would be taxed under Huckabee’s fair tax plan, in addition to being taxed by their state government to fund a state constitutionally authorized function. Seems to me Mary and Joe of Iowa need to ask Huckabee why the alleged fair tax needs to be so high. Seems to me what Huckabee is talked about when he so proudly announces the alleged fair tax would fund existing levels of federal spending, he is talking about Mary and Joe Sixpack being kept a tax slave to finance the Washington Establishment and its millions of federal political plum job holders.
Heck, by closing down the Federal Department of Education which has a budget of $ 67 BILLION, a budget which was the entire federal budget in 1955, surely the fair tax could be lowered and Mary and Joe Sixpack would have more money in their pocket to perhaps pay for their families health care needs.
But then again, the alleged fair tax was not created with Mary and Joe Sixpack in mind. It is designed to benefit the Washington Establishment and its millions of political plum job holders who are rewarded quite handsomely for doubling as Congress’s foot soldiers during election time, and helping to prop up the Washington Establishment.
Want to know how well these federal department of education plum job holders are rewarded by Congress? You may want to sit down before reading the following.
FEDERAL EMPLOYEE OVERVIEW
Quote:
Are you considering a government job? The federal government employs more than 2,715,000 workers and hires hundreds of thousands each year to replace civil service workers that transfer to other federal government jobs, retire, or stop working for other reasons. Average annual salary for full-time federal government jobs exceeds $67,000.
The U.S. Government is the largest employer in the United States, hiring about 2.0 percent of the nation's civilian work force. Federal government jobs can be found in every state and large metropolitan area, including overseas in over 200 countries.
Now wait a second, Mary and Joe Sixpack’s average annual wage amounts to only $40-45 K. Why are Mary and Joe, earning less than those they employee?
In addition, here are other federal employee ``benefits`` which Huckabee plans to tax Mary and Joe to finance:
Life insurance plan___ Mary and Joe Sixpack get to pay 1/3 of a government workers federal life insurance plan.
Federal Employees Dental & Vision Program is a full coverage plan and federal employees get to use pre-tax dollars to pay for their vision and dental premiums while Mary and Joe are forced to use after taxed dollars to fund their Dental & Vision plan.
Under the federal employee retirement system, there is a tax-deferred savings plan known as the ``Thrift Savings Plan``. Under this plan, federal workers may contribute up to 10% of their salaries to the plan, with Mary and Joe Sixpack being taxed to match up to 5% of a federal employees contribution.
Also under the Civilian Service Retirement System a federal employee contributes 7% of their paycheck to retirement while Mary and Joe Sixpack are forced to match that 7 % out of their paychecks.
And, with reference to health insurance, which is in addition to the above mentioned dental and vision plan, see Federal Employees to See Moderate Rise in Health Insurance Premiums
Quote:
Health insurance premiums for federal employees and retirees will increase by an average of 2.1 percent next year, the Office of Personnel Management announced this afternoon.
<Snip>
The federal program will offer 283 plans next year and will provide insurance coverage to about 8 million Americans: civil service and postal workers, retirees, and family members. The government picks up about 70 percent of premium costs in its role as employer.
What the article meant to state is, Mary and Joe Sixpack, who can barely meet their own health care needs, get to pick up about 70 percent of the premium costs to provide health care to federal employees and their families.
And you think the alleged fair tax which Huckabee promotes is designed to benefit Mary and Joe Sixpack? Only a soft spoken flim flam con artist could ever make one to believe that nonsense.
Federalist Paper No. 45 tells us:
So tell us Mike Huckabee, old boy, why does the alleged fair tax have to be so high? Did our founding fathers suffer the same type of enslavement?Quote:
"The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation and foreign commerce. ... The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives and liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement and prosperity of the State."
[b][i]“He has erected a multitude of new offices(Washington‘s existing political plum job Empire) , and sent hither swarms of officers, to harass our people, and eat out their substanceâ€