Thread: The fairtax vs the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment

Originally Posted by johnwk

So why do you want to impose a mandatory 23 percent tax upon the property a farm brings to market for sale? Why do you want to impose a mandatory 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which a plumber has in his labor?

Almost every time you post in this thread you contradict yourself.


JWK

I still say it's closer to 30% and that wouldn't even be revenue neutral according to some economist.

Originally Posted by johnwk

So why do you want to impose a mandatory 23 percent tax upon the property a farm brings to market for sale? Why do you want to impose a mandatory 23 percent tax upon the sale of property which a plumber has in his labor?

Almost every time you post in this thread you contradict yourself.


JWK

So at your voluntary choosing, you can sell it to a consumer voluntarily willing to pay you for your "property" and the 23% to fund our government. No one is forced to do anything under the FairTax, there is no mandated taxation. It's free market taxation, a truly beautiful thing, which apparently you are so indoctrinated against, you don't understand it. So go read some more Federalist Papers written by our Founding Feudal Lords.

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh my lord, I've never heard of this, the federal government in 1798 assessed property owners to pay the federal bills. People had to go borrow money on their homes and farms and stores to pay the federal tax assessment, if they didn't pay then the federal government would have foreclosed on their homes and stores and farms.

You really need to get out more. If you owe taxes to the IRS, and you are broke, you can file bankruptcy on just about anybody but the IRS. Government places itself above the people!

That's the way it is now under the income tax and that's the way it would be under John's plan. That would never happen under the FairTax.

Originally Posted by Judy

So at your voluntary choosing, you can sell it to a consumer voluntarily willing to pay you for your "property" and the 23% to fund our government. No one is forced to do anything under the FairTax, there is no mandated taxation.

No more than Income Tax! If you don't buy, you don't pay with your tax. If you don't earn, you don't pay, under the Income Tax Code!

Originally Posted by Judy

That's the way it is now under the income tax and that's the way it would be under John's plan. that would never happen under the FairTax.

At least if all goes according to plan. But reality has a way of making all plans moot!

Originally Posted by jtdc

No more than Income Tax! If you don't buy, you don't pay with your tax. If you don't earn, you don't pay, under the Income Tax Code!

Oh totally more than the income tax. The FairTax is much different. Under the FairTax, you only pay FairTax when you buy new goods and services and if you choose to sign up for the Rebate, you only pay FairTax above the consumption allowance. You can buy used goods, used homes, used cars, used clothes, used appliances, used equipment, used furniture, etc., etc. all of which are exempt from the FairTax.

Also under the FairTax, the FairTax is only charged on your voluntary purchases of new goods and services which for most people is only a % of their actual income or earnings that they spend. You don't pay FairTax on investments or savings accounts unless there's a service charge of some type, and you pay a FairTax on that small charge but not on the purchase of a savings bond or CD or stock or anything like that. Education services are also exempt, because they're considered part of production.

Instead of owing tax like you do under an income or property tax, under the FairTax you don't ever owe any tax, you just pay it as part of your voluntary purchases of only new goods and services above the consumption allowance if you choose to sign up for the Rebate, when you want or need something and have the money and desire to pay for it. There's no paperwork, no pressure, no worries, no risk, no threat of tax debt, late fees, penalties, interest, collection fees, liens, garnishments or property/asset foreclosures like you have with these mandated taxes like income and property taxes. You're free tax-wise, as free as you can possibly be under the FairTax.

I think everyone will really like it once it passes and implements and will be asking themselves "what in the hell was wrong with us that we didn't support this 20 years ago?"

And that would be a damn good question.

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh totally more than the income tax. The FairTax is much different.

What a revelation!

Originally Posted by Judy

Under the FairTax, you only pay FairTax when you buy new goods and services and if you choose to sign up for the Rebate, you only pay FairTax above the consumption allowance.

And you only pay Income Tax when you earn income!

Originally Posted by Judy

You can buy used goods, used homes, used cars, used clothes, used appliances, used equipment, used furniture, etc., etc. all of which are exempt from the FairTax.

And the Income Tax also has exemptions!

Originally Posted by Judy

Also under the FairTax, the FairTax is only charged on your voluntary purchases of new goods and services which for most people is only a % of their actual income or earnings that they spend.

Redundant! Income Tax is only a % of your income!

Originally Posted by Judy

You don't pay FairTax on investments or savings accounts unless there's a service charge of some type, and you pay a FairTax on that small charge but not on the purchase of a savings bond or CD or stock or anything like that.

You don't pay Income Tax on investments or savings account unless there is interest of some type, and you only pay Income Tax on that small amount!

Originally Posted by Judy

Education services are also exempt, because they're considered part of production.

And Income Tax provides exemptions for many items as well!

Originally Posted by Judy

Instead of owing tax like you do under an income or property tax, under the FairTax you don't ever owe any tax, you just pay it as part of your voluntary purchases of only new goods and services above the consumption allowance if you choose to sign up for the Rebate

You don't owe Income Tax unless you earn something. And now you are including property tax which is a different tax from either! And you don't have to sign up for any rebate!

Originally Posted by Judy

There's no paperwork

There's no paperwork for Income Tax if you don't earn enough!

Originally Posted by Judy

no pressure, no worries, no risk, no threat of tax debt, late fees, penalties, interest, collection fees, liens, garnishments or property/asset foreclosures like you have with these mandated taxes like income and property taxes. You're free tax-wise, as free as you can possibly be under the FairTax.

More of the Snake-Oil sales pitch!

Income Tax can be tailored to recognize the differences between people/family income! Your tax is "one size fits all". And your tax is much more vulnerable to and attractive to criminal ventures.

Under the FairTax, there is no paperwork no matter what you earn.

Businesses have to file income taxes even when they lose money.

Owners of business have to file income taxes even when their company lost money.

The income tax provides not only exemptions for many items, it offers tax credits on top of the many exemptions and deductions.

Property tax is mandated taxation like the income tax. John's plan uses property taxes to pay the bills of the federal government, that's why we're talking about property taxes.

Correct, if you don't earn any taxable income, gains, gifts or interest, wages or dividends, you don't owe income tax.

Under the FairTax, you can work and earn all types of income and never pay a dime of income tax, will never have to report income or file an income tax return.

Originally Posted by Judy

Under the FairTax, there is no paperwork no matter what you earn.

Businesses have to file income taxes even when they lose money.

Owners of business have to file income taxes even when their company lost money.

So there will be no records. Crime syndicates will be elated!

Originally Posted by Judy

The income tax provides not only exemptions for many items, it offers tax credits on top of the many exemptions and deductions.

So it is not limited to to a couple hundred dollars as is your sales tax!

Originally Posted by Judy

Property tax is mandated taxation like the income tax.

Property tax is not federal. And it is neither a sales tax nor an income tax. A dodge?

Originally Posted by Judy

John's plan uses property taxes to pay the bills of the federal government, that's why we're talking about property taxes.

And I have said I'm not a fan of his "original tax plan"!

Originally Posted by Judy

Correct, if you don't earn any taxable income, gains, gifts or interest, wages or dividends, you don't owe income tax.

Originally Posted by Judy

Under the FairTax, you can work and earn all types of income and never pay a dime of income tax, will never have to report income or file an income tax return.

And that is great. It's the other things, which I listed, that I am concerned with. The end point collection along with the 23% makes it a major attraction to crime, and simple, to evade.

And the Rebate, to potentially everybody, looks like a major headache to me.

I don't like our current system, but I still think it is better than what you or John are selling. As I said before, I prefer a combination of taxes.