Thread: I Was Wrong About Ron Paul On Immigration

BearFlagRepublic wrote:

Strange? I believe it is information sharing. In fact, I am sharing information from Ron Paul's own site. I have repeatedly linked to the man's site so people can get a better understanding of his views on trade. Don't you want to know where he stands trixie? Is it better to not know these things before voting for him? Isn't it better that you know?

I agree, Bear. I refuse to hold the truth back simply because some don't want to hear it. To do so would be a huge disservice to those that really are interested in learing the facts about the candidates. Personally, I would hope everyone would desire to be as informed as possible on all of the candidates, not just the top tier candidate that is leading in the polls at the time.

I want to know all the stances on a candidate.

That statement of 'don't you want to know' is part of the problem. We can't attack each other and divide ourselves and hope to get someone in that will vote our way.

Nothing I said implied I didn't want to know. I just don't know and trade is not high on my list right now.

As I said, I have serious disagreements with Hunter on the war and foreign policy - but I'm not going to begin throwing silly statements, insults, and meaningless nitpicking around. The war and our foreign policy is a big thing with me. I have the feeling he is totally entrenched in his policies on that and nothing will change - until we are forced by circumstances.

These policies are already in place and have been - Hunter won't have to do anything differently to keep these things going that I truly think are wrong. So I guess I could begin making very inflamed remarks about him and the war, etc., but that won't help right now.

If we don't do something about illegal immigration, the war won't matter, trade won't matter, the IRS won't matter, and whether prostitutes voted for Ron Paul won't matter.

No candidate is going to be perfect - none.

I want to hear the views and I want to see facts about all candidates. What I don't want to hear is some off the wall statement that is just political speak. Just me, but I've had enough buzz words, 'talking points', political spin to last me another lifetime. We should be way past that.

If you have concerns, don't like the view of a candidate, state the reason, but don't come off with 'blame America' type thing. That's so counterproductive. Why do you think that phrase is thrown out there - so we, the people, won't question any policy of this government. They have, through that repeated mantra, made it seem as if they are America - and therefore if we question them, we are blaming America.

We need to move on from that - and from attacking and insulting each other.

A big problem, as I see it, with Duncan Hunter is that he would not do anything to help the monetary crisis. How will he help the devaluation of our dollar, and what will he do about the Federal Reserve? With a weak dollar and a weak economy, we are creating a situation in which employers will seek to hire illegal immigrants over Americans.

Ron Paul is just about the only politician who recognizes this. Does Duncan Hunter? What would he do about it? What would he do about the income tax?

Also, as far as Burma goes, I did answer that-- as it is, we don't trade with Burma, but we give them foreign aid (which is probably taken by their corrupt government anyway). They are poor and can't rebel against their terrible government, and will remain poor. If we opened as a market to them, they could become richer and better able to overthrow their government, along with becoming a new market for American goods where there wasn't one before. As it is, we're giving them money anyway in foreign aid and getting nothing back in return. They're probably getting little to show for it as well.

I must have missed the part about Burma -

Originally Posted by nntrixie

I want to know all the stances on a candidate.

That statement of 'don't you want to know' is part of the problem. We can't attack each other and divide ourselves and hope to get someone in that will vote our way.

Did you consider that an attack trixie? It was not meant as one, but if it came off that way, I appologize. This discussion started when Once-A-Democrat mentioned that more jobs would be moved to China under Paul's trade plan. A couple posters including yourself wanted us to "prove it," or know how that was so. So I began linking to Paul's site, and quoting from Paul on tariffs -- which would be eliminated while China is free to keep theirs, hence what we believe would send more jobs to China. When you responded that this method of posting was strange, I was confused because you yourself seemed interested in an explanation of the assertion laid out by Once-a-Democrat.

As I said, I have serious disagreements with Hunter on the war and foreign policy - but I'm not going to begin throwing silly statements, insults, and meaningless nitpicking around.

Part of the problem in our communication is that some Paul supporters seem to believe that all Paul detractors believe that Paul is crazy, or a muslim lover and such. I have never said these things. Yes, some have siad them, but myself, Once-a-Democrat, or MW have never said them. Paul detractors are every bit as diverse as Paul followers. Just as some Paul followers are consiracy theorists, that does not mean that they all are. Same goes for Paul detractors. We do not all think that he is anti-American etc. I do not believe he is a "traitor," or a "Muslim lover" etc. I do not even support the war. I just believe that Paul is not strong enough for our movement on illegal immigration and trade.

I want to hear the views and I want to see facts about all candidates. What I don't want to hear is some off the wall statement that is just political speak. Just me, but I've had enough buzz words, 'talking points', political spin to last me another lifetime. We should be way past that.

I believe that what I have provided, and have always provided, are the facts about Ron Paul. This time I decided to go straight to the horses mouth so all could see what the Paul campaign officially put's on his web-site. Its not talking points. I quoted from several different articles on his trade link to his site, It is clear that Paul has clearly dilineated that he is not a "fair trader." In one of my quotes he clearly dinstances himself from fair traders, and is in favor of free trade and ending tariffs unilaterally. But I agree we should not be using talking points and spin. I do not believe that I do, nor do I believe that I ever have. Again, we need not lump all Paul detractors in the same category.

We need to move on from that - and from attacking and insulting each other.

I agree. I hope that I have made the case that this is not what I am doing. I do not believe that MW or Once-a-Democrat does that either. I will not speak for everyone because, as you allude to, there are some people who do that. They do not speak for me, because I do not use terms like "blame America," or "Muslim lover." I do not even support this war. In fact, I never have. I hope that gives you and others a little bit of a different take of where I am coming from. I oppose this war and I oppose Ron Paul. Because the war is not the #1 issue for me, and this war actually has nothing to do with this site and our movement (but I'm sure some would disagree). I consider all of the issues, and then make my choice. Sure, I like what Paul has said about the war, but then he loses me when I hear him talk about illegal immigration (the main issue of this site) and trade (a related issue). Even though I disagree with Duncan on the war, he is almost perfect on trade and immigration.

I weigh my top 3 issues (immmigration, trade, the war), factoring in how important each issue is, compare the candidates on these issues, and make the decision. For me Paul is basically 1 out of 3. And Duncan is 2 out of three. That is why I choose Duncan.

bearflag No apology necessary - but nice of you.

If someone says, 'don't you want to know the facts' - that really sounds to me like 'you don't want to know the facts'. Just misunderstanding.

Some very good points and nicely put. That's the way we should discuss and debate. That way we can discuss, debate, disagree - but remain together when it is necessary for us to do so.

The war is not #1 for me either, and I said that emphatically.
If we don't do something about illegal immigration, nothing else matters, because we won't be Americans in America for long.

But you will have to admit that there has been a barrage of odd, nitpicking posts about Ron Paul. He has been attacked regarding every thing in his agenda. Some of them so desparate it is strange. We haven't heard he kicks little dogs yet, but who knows.

I would be just as curious and maybe upset if suddenly people began posting time and time again with some pretty nonsensical things regarding Hunter or Tancredo.

My point was, if I want to be negative, so could I, concerning Hunter. I don't want to attempt to destroy the, perhaps, one other person who is on our side.

But as far as the war goes, most of the time, I'm not defending Paul's position - but stating my own - which I have held since the drumbeats began.

Before you change horses, go to the "Who Ya Gonna Vote For?" thread

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-94938.html

and actually spend some time researching the real views and positions of the candidates, especially on illegal immigration and homeland security.

All the links are there.

You might also want do it if you were riding another pony.

Tancredo always said what he believes. Remember, most of the others are POLITICIANS.

God bless Tom Tancredo!

The president does not set trade policys...congress does, remember they are the ones who just voted for the Peru agreement, they voted for Nafta, Cafta, if you want to change them work on your congressmen/women..throw them out of office, find out if your elected offical voted for the spending bill yesterday and see that they get voted out, the President has as much power as the people give him, we need to take that power back.

Immigration is the #1 issue as it will set the agenda as to where this country is going. NAU, open borders and free movement of people and goods.

Iraq is important because it is breaking this country, you and me, I ( only my opinion) I think it is time for Iraq to take over and fight for themselves, as evidently the rest of the world believes that also (hense Great Britain getting out) When are we going to stop being so arrogant to think the whole world is ours to run and tell other how to live.

This is exactly what is happening to us in our own country by globalist, and we don't like it, in fact we are fed up and down right sick of it. Who are these few to tell the Majority what we should accept for our country in the name of their idea of the world.

Economy is critical....again just look at the spending bill that passed the other day, I don't know about you but this kind of waste of my money is ticking me off, and this country needs big changes, our government is getting too big, there is way to much waste at our expense. We are suckers....who is talking about this?

Our constitutional rights are being trampled on, destroy our constitution and America will cease and desist to exist IMHO

sosad I am just as concerned about the war, etc.

Once again, though, if we don't do something about illegal immigration and do it soon, it won't matter. We will never again have a chance to make decisions or elect those who do.

The illegal movement is not a spontaneous thing. This didn't just mushroom out of the desire for a better life for these millions of people.
They have been quietly putting people in place in our local, state and federal government. They have been getting them hired into bureaucratic jobs that make real decisions in this country. Spanish speaking attorneys have opened offices all over this country - in many small towns.

It was a planned and orchestrated movement. One in which our government, both so called parties, on local, state level as well, took part.

By flooding this country with poor people and criminals, not Americans, they have diluted the power of the American citizens. They used these people in so many ways. It made corporations richer, it diminished our education system, it weakened our judicial system, it is breaking the American taxpayer, etc.

They played on the poverty - and greed of the illegals and on the greed of the American corporation and other business owners.

'Trixie" I couldn't agree with anyone more than I do you, as I said above it is the #1 issue, the others are extremely important but if this illegal immigration keeps on the course it is on, our country will be lost as we know it. The North American Union will destroy the middle class ,our culture will diminish, our towns and states will continue to erode and there will be no place left for us to move to get away from it. Our childrens futures will be lost.