Thread: I Was Wrong About Ron Paul On Immigration

BearFlagRepublic wrote:

I weigh my top 3 issues (immmigration, trade, the war), factoring in how important each issue is, compare the candidates on these issues, and make the decision. For me Paul is basically 1 out of 3. And Duncan is 2 out of three. That is why I choose Duncan.

Well, using your matrix, Bear, Hunter scores a perfect 3 out of 3 for me. I do not support an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. Whether I agree with our reasoning for going into Iraq is not the issue, but now that we're there I strongly believe we need to finish what we started! Those that decry the loss of life in Iraq during the war haven't seen anything compared to what could, and probably would, happen if we were to withdrawal immediately. The insurgency uprising to regain control of Iraq would begin almost immediately, and without a doubt it would be extremely bloody. Furthermore, an immediate withdrawal would more than likely undermine the sacrifices our men and women in uniform have made up to this point because I don't think the Iraqi military is ready to stand alone yet. Is the country ready to tell little Johnny's mom and dad that his sacrifice was for nothing? I honestly believe the light is becoming visible at the end of the tunnel. It's beyond me how anyone could support an immediate withdrawal (cut & run) policy at this point. You know things are improving in Iraq when the MSM has given up spinning the surge as a bad thing.

SOSADFORUS wrote:

Immigration is the #1 issue as it will set the agenda as to where this country is going. NAU, open borders and free movement of people and goods.

You're exactly right! That is why we should be rallying behind Duncan Hunter for President!

It has been proven time and time again that Tancredo and Hunter were the absolute best on the issues of immigration and border security.

mw

While I don't know that Ron Paul could withdraw us from the war immediately - I don't think it matters when we leave. There will be a bloodbath in that country. Unless we stay forever, it will happen.

We are here on this site because we are being invaded by millions of people from another country. They are being encouraged and protected by this President - both in practice and in his speeches. He wants them here, he wants them to have amnesty. He is doing everything he can to get more here and keep them here.

He wants the NAU, he has helped to outsource business. He made the speech that we had to give money to companies who work offshore 'so they can be competitve in the world market'?? He is giving this country away, selling it, allowing it to be invaded.

He is so wrong - so wrong on everything else - how can one not doubt his stand on the war. It defies logic to believe in his idea that we need to take over Iraq in order to make America free - while we know, can see, can feel, that he is selling this country out in every way he can.

How can anyone believe the mission of this war has anything to do with the safety or security of America. You can't give it away with one hand and claim you are fighting for it with the other.

MW, and that is your right.

Paul is 2 out of 3 for me as my view on the war differs from yours...but useing the term "cut and run" because my view is different than yours is no different than pro-illigals calling us racist, bigots or protectionist. I believe their are more people against the war than for it....

Here is how it stands, we all think the world of Tancredo and had hopes he could win, I said months ago he could not make it as he could not pull himself up off the bottom..... Tancedo drops out today.

Here again we have the same thing with Hunter, even if we don't agree with it or don't like it, it doesn't change a thing...We all here like Hunter...The facts are he can not pull himself off of the bottom.... On the other hand....

" Fact" We have a man that has a movement going in this country like none other, he is gaining momentum, he has raised 17 million dollars 5 in one day, he is managing to get himself in the MSM more often on shows such as Glenn Beck, Cavutto Blitzer etc. They are being forced to recognize him aleast more often.
He at least has a chance and if he does not get the nomination he can come back as an Independant and have another almost year to gain even more momentum.

nntrixie wrote:

While I don't know that Ron Paul could withdraw us from the war immediately - I don't think it matters when we leave. There will be a bloodbath in that country. Unless we stay forever, it will happen.

I believe he has used the words "immediate withdrawal" on several occasions. Additionally, he has said, "we must get out now." Make no mistake about it, cut & run is the only way those phrases can be interpreted.

If we actually accomplish our goal in Iraq, there will be no "bloodbath." Everything is dependent upon standing up a competent Iraqi Army that can protect the citizens of Iraq and protect an established government from insurgents. Regardless of what you think, it's achievable and I believe it is happening.

He is so wrong - so wrong on everything else - how can one not doubt his stand on the war. It defies logic to believe in his idea that we need to take over Iraq in order to make America free - while we know, can see, can feel, that he is selling this country out in every way he can.

How can anyone believe the mission of this war has anything to do with the safety or security of America. You can't give it away with one hand and claim you are fighting for it with the other.

I would love to respond, however, I refuse to make the big turn necessary to do so because it would turn this thread into a war thread - and that's not what we're here to discuss.

SOSADFORUS wrote:

" Fact" We have a man that has a movement going in this country like none other, he is gaining momentum, he has raised 17 million dollars 5 in one day, he is managing to get himself in the MSM more often on shows such as Glenn Beck, Cavutto Blitzer etc. They are being forced to recognize him aleast more often.

Unfortunately money doesn't necessarily translate into votes. As for being invited to appear on shows such as Glenn Beck, Cavutto, etc. Hunter has been there, done that (he spent an hour with Beck just a week or two ago). Showing up on those shows also doesn't necessarily translate into support. Actually, have you considered the possibility that more appearances may lead to less support in the long run. It's a real possibility that some may have failed to consider.

This comment doesn't wash, "They are being forced to recognize him aleast more often." Hunter's been on all those shows - how did he force them to recognize him? Of course I'll give credit to Paul for appearing on The View and Alex Jones Show because those are shows Hunter has yet to appear on. Something tells me he won't be invited either.

He at least has a chance and if he does not get the nomination he can come back as an Independant and have another almost year to gain even more momentum.

Hasn't Paul said he would not run as an Independent. If I'm not mistaken, he recently said he was 99.9% sure he would not run as Third Party candidate. Besides that, a Third Party candidate has virtually no chance of being elected. I'm sorry, but in reality the deck is only stacked for one elephant and one donkey (or jackass if you prefer). Is it right, of course not, but unfortunately it is what it is.

I believe he has used the words "immediate withdrawal" on several occasions. Additionally, he has said, "we must get out now." Make no mistake about it, cut & run is the only way those phrases can be interpreted.

If we actually accomplish our goal in Iraq, there will be no "bloodbath." Everything is dependent upon standing up a competent Iraqi Army that can protect the citizens of Iraq and protect an established government from insurgents. Regardless of what you think, it's achievable and I believe it is happening.

I would love to respond, however, I refuse to make the big turn necessary to do so because it would turn this thread into a war thread - and that's not what we're here to discuss.





Why denigrate Paul - and use the phrase 'cut and run' - the mantra of the administration and the war machine - yet won't explain how a President that is selling, giving away, and otherwise destroying this country right under our noses -o can be fighting a war to preserve our freedom.

What freedom?

You know I have asked that question many times and have never gotten an answer.

But you are right, it's not a war thread - and it's not about cutting and running.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

sosad I am just as concerned about the war, etc.

Once again, though, if we don't do something about illegal immigration and do it soon, it won't matter. We will never again have a chance to make decisions or elect those who do.

The illegal movement is not a spontaneous thing. This didn't just mushroom out of the desire for a better life for these millions of people.
They have been quietly putting people in place in our local, state and federal government. They have been getting them hired into bureaucratic jobs that make real decisions in this country. Spanish speaking attorneys have opened offices all over this country - in many small towns.

It was a planned and orchestrated movement. One in which our government, both so called parties, on local, state level as well, took part.

By flooding this country with poor people and criminals, not Americans, they have diluted the power of the American citizens. They used these people in so many ways. It made corporations richer, it diminished our education system, it weakened our judicial system, it is breaking the American taxpayer, etc.

They played on the poverty - and greed of the illegals and on the greed of the American corporation and other business owners.

[b]Very well put nntrixie. I agree with it all.

We also have been duped by so-called "Americanized" hispanics who have taken sworn "oaths" in order to serve as public servants, only to have them serve the interests of other hispanics. LIARS AND TRAITORS.

We also have a HUGE portion of the media covered by hispanics. You don't see alot of Asian and European anchors or reporters on tv or in the newspapers. The vast majority are hispanics. FAIR AND BALANCED? NOT!

OK "MW" This money Paul has collected speaks loud and clear...Money deffinitly can mean votes especially where his money has come from, grass roots America, people sending all they can afford $25, $50 dallors a shot, that means alot of votes.

Nobody is asking you to give up or stop supporting your canidate please continues I respect your loyalty, tell everyone all the wonderful atributes of Hunter I agree he is a great guy, but please don't put down the only other candidate whom some of us have great hopes for...with any luck one of them will win and we can take back our country.


Taking our country back is something we all agree on!!

Originally Posted by MW

Whether I agree with our reasoning for going into Iraq is not the issue, but now that we're there I strongly believe we need to finish what we started!

What exactly are we finishing over in Iraq by staying?

Didnt we go in to remove Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMDs) from Saddam's possesion and overthrow saddam? We did overthrow Saddam and there were no WMDs - Iraq was not a threat to the soveriegnty of the U.S.
What else are we accomplishing - Peace in Iraq - what?

We are staying solely to save face - we are staying, wasting money, wasting lives in a war we cant afford that has no clear benefit to the citizens of the U.S.

I keep hearing "complete the mission", "finish the job", "we arnt quitters" What the hell does that mean - what do you hope to accomplish - and if you do even have a concrete goal, is it even realistic?

Think about it - lets swallow our pride, be smart, save lives, save this country from an economic crisis, protect the homeland AT HOME, and end this occupation of Iraq.

stealthwii

Those were my thoughts.

Just why are we there? Why are we staying?

I truly don't know why we are they or why we went in - Money of course. Money and power - but not sure how that works out.
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