Thread: I Was Wrong About Ron Paul On Immigration

Originally Posted by MW

PineStrawGuys wrote:

Believe me, MW, I've burned up the phone lines and my modem last week over it. I used to LIVE in San Diego, I KNOW that fence worked!

SOSADFORUS wrote:

[quote:2073p67w]I did it right after they passed the spending bill, I also e-mailed Hunter and thanked him for his work on it and told him not to give up! He had a long hard fight getting the fence up in San Diego.

It nice to know the fence is definitely one thing a large majority of us can agree on.

Whether we can actually undo what the Democrat controlled Congress has done with the help of Hutchinson and Cornyn's remains to be seen. However, at least we can take pride in knowing we did all we could to reverse this travesty! Your country and I thanks you both for rising to the occasion. [/quote:2073p67w]

Actually "MW" I happen to like Hunter a whole lot, I just disagree with the war and the reason we are in Iraq ( but I don't want to go there again) I think I have exhausted that subject for now.

He is for sure a great American Patriot, and I would vote for him before any of the rest (except Paul) because I think we should give REAL change a chance in this country.

I don't think most people realize how close we are to loseing our soverengity, constitution and freedoms, not to mention our country, the same old type politicians are going to give us the same old crap, except the crap keeps getting deeper and Americans are being buried in it.

A fence by itself could work if we get the PC crowd to get their heads screwed on right. The right way is to protect this country at all cost. One way to do this is with a no nonsense high voltage electric fence. These fences were invented to keep people out of places they have no business. A few people get shocked and a lot learn not to mess with the border or the fence. We have every right to do whatever we feel is right for our country, don't let these whiners tell you it can't be done, they are just brainwashed by the PC crowd! Get a grip people, your families heritage and future is at stake! Now act like it is!

But, with everyone so brainwashed on this PCism, we just question each other time and time again. Every dang one of those politicians have a fence around their mansions. They have fences around the whitehouse, governors mansions, prisons and all the places where people aren't allowed to be and if you get caught in those places then ya get arrested and thrown in jail, then you go to court for tresspassing. Even Mexico's presidential home has a big iron fence around it with many, many gaurds. If you block out the PCism and use your head right, Americans can do anything we need to do and it won't be that expensive compared to what we're doing now.

Everyone wants to be so politicially correct about this fence. Look, when you build a fence, you say bye bye, and don't call us we'll call you!
These people are so PC about the fence you'd think they're best friends with these illegals or something. Hey, we don't need friends that bad. I love my brother and sister Americans, those are my friends!

Seems like a no brainer to me.

Good Day!

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

Originally Posted by specsaregood

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I happened to read "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" by Ron Paul last week. It is 52 pages of "pure gold", pardon the pun. It really explains the core basis for his belief structure and details through history how monetary policy and fiat money has been the instrument of tyranny. Once you understand his thoughts on that, every thing else he does just makes sense.

Here is a little tidbit from the book(really more of a pamphlet).
"The monetary reforms drawn up at Bretton Woods, NH, in July 1944 were supposed to be permanent. The agreement lasted 27 years. Harry Dexter White, Director of Monetary Research for the Treasure was the U.S. Representative. (Mr. White was later identified as a high-level fellow traveler of the Communist Party.)"

Liberty and Freedom cannot exist for long without "honest money".

I will have to find that book so I can read it...thanks

I just discovered that this book is available online for free in PDF format. I prefer the hardcopy, but here it is in case you are interested.
http://www.mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf
Whether you are a Ron Paul supporter or not, this book is very enlightening reading.

Originally Posted by specsaregood

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

Originally Posted by specsaregood

Thank you for the warm welcome.

I happened to read "Gold, Peace, and Prosperity" by Ron Paul last week. It is 52 pages of "pure gold", pardon the pun. It really explains the core basis for his belief structure and details through history how monetary policy and fiat money has been the instrument of tyranny. Once you understand his thoughts on that, every thing else he does just makes sense.

Here is a little tidbit from the book(really more of a pamphlet).
"The monetary reforms drawn up at Bretton Woods, NH, in July 1944 were supposed to be permanent. The agreement lasted 27 years. Harry Dexter White, Director of Monetary Research for the Treasure was the U.S. Representative. (Mr. White was later identified as a high-level fellow traveler of the Communist Party.)"

Liberty and Freedom cannot exist for long without "honest money".

I will have to find that book so I can read it...thanks

I just discovered that this book is available online for free in PDF format. I prefer the hardcopy, but here it is in case you are interested.
http://www.mises.org/books/goldpeace.pdf
Whether you are a Ron Paul supporter or not, this book is very enlightening reading.

Thanks "specsaregood" that was really nice of you...I will check it our put it in my favorites and if it is to hard to read that way I will look through Alibres (used boods online) easier to find older books on there.

Thanks again....SOSAD

A fence without interior enforcement would do little good.

Who says we won't have interior enforcement? - just look around you.

We have large corporations that are employing thousands of illegals - hundreds at one location. Are our immigration people going after those people? Perish the thought, they write great big checks.

They are going after people who employ 2 - 14 - 23 people. That's not enforcement - that's a joke.

Now those same people who 'enforce' the interior laws are going to be the ones deciding on the fence and the operation of the fence. Do you really think they are going to do anything that works? I don't.

As to the San Diego fence - yes, it seemed to work. But the articles seem to suggest the drug dealers and illegals are getting around it now.

A fence, with interior enforcement and enhanced patrols would be great.

THE fence, as invisioned, executed and built by the same ones who are bringing us immigration control - is a farce. It really is.

We have laws on the books - if used - would clear up 90% of the problem in a matter of weeks. They aren't being used - and we think they are going to build a fence they know will work?

I'm not saying a fence won't help, I'm saying our government has no intention of building one that will. We can dream, we can hope, we can rant, we can demand, and we can let them give the contract either to some foreign company or the biggest contributor - that doesn't mean we are going to get one that works. It just means we are going to get a big debt and probably business as usual.

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by PFWAG

Regardless, Paul is soft on immigration
Paul doesn't have a modicum of understanding about what Islam is all about nor any idea that Allah instructs his followers to lie, cheat, steal, and kill to convert the whole world to Islam.

He wouldn't have a clue on what the Islamic doctrine of abrogation is all about.

Do you have any basis for these assertions or are you just spewing your own opinion?

See the references at the bottom. BTW, do you know what Islamic doctrine of abrogation is?

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by PFWAG

Ron Paul would pull our military from all foreign lands, cut off all military funding, and actually believes that if we simply IGNORE Islamic countries, that Muslims will suddenly stop following the teachings of Mohammed, that they'll throw their Qur'ans away, and that they will then gather around with the infidels (us!) to sing Kumbaya.

Bring our military home, yes, which would allow us to cut funding WITHOUT lowering our ability to defend ourselves. The rest of this is just RANT.

Except for the "Kumbaya" part, these are the positions of RP. Gathering around the campfire singing "Rocky Mountian High" would probably be more appropriate. See the references at bottom. You might start reading instead of knee-jerk opinionating about what is rant and what is facts. I'll bet I know more about RP's positions than you know about the other candidate's positions. Loser has to vote for the other guy's candidate. Unfortunately, unless something miraculous happens in the next few months, I don't think either of our guys will be the nominee. I would actually vote for Paul over Obama or Hillary. However, if it is McCain or Guiliani, I'm writing in Tancredo.

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by PFWAG

Paul believes it's "none of our business" whether or not countries like Iran and Syria develop nuclear weapons.

What should we do to stop them, BOMB them?? Are you another fan of that 'preemptive strike' doctrine?

Yes. If necessary. Or are you willing to wait until NYC or WDC is nuked? How about we let them nuke Phoenix? That will also cause many of the illegals who weren't vaporized to go home.

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by PFWAG

Paul believes Islamic "radicals" hate the United States because we're in Iraq, completely ignoring the fact that the Qur'an specifically teaches Muslims to murder all infidels (non-believers) and wage war upon them wherever they live. Paul doesn't even seem know the history of the Muslim attacks against the USA BEFORE we were in Iraq, let alone all the Muslim attacks against people whose countries have nothing to do with Iraq.

They do, and I doubt he ignores anything. The rest of this is MORE RANT.

Under Paul we would have the national guard patrolling the borders while simultaneously smoking dope. At least they wouldn't have to go very far to buy it.

And this is just downright ludicrous...

Yes they hate us because we are in Iraq but that is not the primary reason they hate us. Do I need to enumerate all the Islamic attacks on the US BEFORE we were in Iraq? Regardless, except for the strong allegory, these are the positions of RP. See references at end. Since RP is strongly for the legalization of marijuana, which part is ludicrous?

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

MY God, you are so ill informed "PFWAG" You know absolutely nothing about Ron Paul that is so easy to see by your posts.

Are you one of those people who believe in "the constitution is nothing but a gawd damn piece of paper" people, Bushes words, not mine.

Yes give us another Bush this man has not done enough harm to our country....did you vote for him? I didn't either time!!

Actually I back up my statements with facts. When you read all the links below on what RP's actual positions are maybe you can offer something besides OPINION. Unfortunately I did vote for Bush. Twice. The alternatives, however, would have been worse. Both times. And RP would do far more far damage than the traitorous Bush is doing. BTW, since you Paulites don't think Islam is a threat, can you explain the Islamic doctrine of abrogation to everybody on the forum? I must warn you, however, it will make RP look even nuttier.

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Hunter's fence in San Diego dropped crossings by 90% and the crime rate in San Diego by 54%. It definitely did the job it was designed to do. Anyone that disputes that doesn't know from Aunt Fanny's cat.

But Congress cut the funds AND the specifications for the REST of the fence, so talking about it right now is a waste of time.

Agree but does your Aunt Fanny’s cat know that all the illegals simply went around the fence? While it helped SD, there was probably no overall reduction in illegals, drugs, or crime. You can not fence a tiny portion of your yard expecting to keep stray dogs from crapping all over the lawn.

See the parts on Crime and Border Security in
http://www.darksideofillegalimmigration.com/


Here are some links to just a few of the sources that I have used to seperate BS, especially on some forums and threads, from the actual facts:

American Conservative Union (ACU)
Rating the Presidential Candidates
http://www.conservative.org/archive2/2008potus.asp

ACU RELEASES RESPONSES TO PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE QUESTIONNAIRE
http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/2007/071210pr.asp

Americans for Tax Reform
2008 Presidential Field - Taxpayer Protection Pledge-Signing Status and ATR Congressional Ratings
http://www.atr.org/national/ratings/200 ... tings.html

On Taxes -- In Their Own Words
2008 Republican and Democrat Primary Debates
http://www.atr.org/special/misc/intheir ... _2008.html

Family Research Council
FRC Presidential Candidate Speeches
http://www.frcaction.org/

Freedom Works
Economic Issues and Candidates for President, 2008
http://www.freedomworks.org/action/president/

Health 08 (from the Kaiser Family Foundation)
2008 Presidential Candidate Health Care Proposals: Side by Side Summary
http://www.health08.org/sidebyside.cfm

My Election Choices
2008 Presidential Election Survey
http://www.myelectionchoices.com/

National Right to Life (endorsed Thompson)
Where Do the Candidates Stand on Life
http://www.nrlc.org/Election2008/allcan ... arison.pdf

NUMBERS USA (does not endorse candidates)
Assessment of Presidential Candidates On Immigration Issues
http://www.betterimmigration.com/candid ... z2008.html

National Taxpayer’s Union
NTU's Fiscal "Snapshot" of the 2008 Presidential Race
http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=97

Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life
Presidential Candidates – Compare on Issues
http://pewforum.org/religion08/

Political Base
2008 Presidential Field
http://www.politicalbase.com/elections/

Project Vote Smart
http://www.vote-smart.org/election_president.php

Select Smart
Candidate Positions
http://selectsmart.com/president/2008/comparethem.html

2008 Presidential Candidate Selector (28 position questions with variable weighting)
http://www.selectsmart.com/president/2008.html

Tax Policy Center
2008 Presidential Candidates' Tax Proposals
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopic ... matrix.cfm

WCVB TV5 Boston
Compare the Candidates (will do a side by side comparison on major issues with references)
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/compare ... index.html

Vote-USA
Presidential Candidate Comparisons
http://www.vote-usa.org/

2 Decide
2008 Presidential Election Candidates on the Issues
http://www.2decide.com/table.htm

Feel free to add your list of insightful sites that will further educate us on the positions of RP.

FYI: Select Smart presents 26 issues with a weighting of relative importance factor.

If you really want to see which candidate your are most in tune with, go directly to My Election Choices, an “independent, neutral, non-partisan way to start your election decision making processâ€

Pfwag, if you've done your homework like you say, you'd probably find out that the terrorists didn't attack Americans on our soil until we were on theirs. And I think Ron Paul knows a helluva lot more about terrorism than the current monkies running this show. Ron Paul is right about everything he says about this Iraq situation. If you knew much about terrorism, you'd know it's not going to end by staying over there fighting their civil war.

AGAIN I INSIST WITH OR WITHOUT THE FENCE IF WE DON'T FIGHT THE NORTH AMERICA UNION IT WILL NOT HELP.
ILLEGALS WILL BE BACK .THEY ARE PART OF THE BIGGER PICTURE,NAU,SPP, GLOBALIZATION, ERRADICATION OF THE BORDERS, OUR SOVEREIGNTY.

Assuming those who support Dr. Paul have not done their homework in investigating him is an insult Pfwag.Don't treat us as if you are smarter or wiser because you are NOT !!

I agree with Ron Paul especially on the ME.If we had kept our nose out of their business years ago instead of interfering for the sake of Big Oil they would NOT have bombed us.

Do you know or government supplied Sadam Hussein with the chemical weapons he used on Iran ? I am ashamed of my government sometimes because that is just one of many things they have done to other countries and we wonder why they hate us ?

Read about how we supported Hussein.
www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/ir ... nindex.htm

I am a Patriot to my country but I am NOT in agreement with the shameful things our government has sometimes done to others mostly for Big Oil or Big Business.

Yet this country runs on oil

Usually several MILLION barrels a day

Not really sticking up for the obscene profits of the oil companies
but bottom line

You have to get to work , public transportation sucks