Thread: Income tax...legal or not...

Must see video...this will blow your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UcPeSb8kg

We rope ourselves in when we sign on the dotted line on the 10-40. It is unconstitutional and the IRS is the collection agency for the Federal Reserve from what I understand.....

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Must see video...this will blow your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UcPeSb8kg

Thank you, so right as Russo was. But many were too scared to listen~God rest his soul.
Freedom To Fascism Aaron Russo VS IRS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuxc2rl3 ... re=related

You might check out some of L B Bork. The red amendment in particular.

Time to straighten it up and fix the problem.

A voluntary tax is one you choose to pay, not one that is forced upon you by mandates from criminals with law degrees threatening citizens in yiddish to perpetuate their fraud on behalf of the Federal Reserve against a free people in a free nation.

A voluntary tax under the US Constitution before or after the 16th Amendment is a sales tax paid by your voluntary determination to buy something subject to that tax. A national retail sales tax for example on all new products and services you purchase in amounts annually above the poverty line to exempt your essentials up to the poverty line is an indirect voluntary tax.

A tax that doesn't tax used items such as used homes or cars or equipment or furnishings or clothing so that you even have options for many items exempt from the tax should you choose to spend above the poverty line is an indirect voluntary tax.

A tax that doesn't tax businesses so that this tax is not taxes on taxes secretly embedded and compounded into the price creating a gross perversion of the price because of all the hidden and secret taxes so that the price of a product shown to you is the actual price of the product or service minus the tax clearly shown to you on price sheets and tags before you purchase as well as on a receipt after you purchase, is an indirect voluntary tax.

A tax that requires you the taxpayer to do nothing is shop and buy and hire an enjoy your products and services, a tax that is collected and passed along to the government by merchants when you voluntary buy and hire services from them and pay the tax, merchants who are compensated from the tax for the service they are providing as they pass your money on to your government that you decided at that time at that moment to pay some money when you chose to purchase that product or hire that service, is a indirect voluntary tax.

A tax that has no mandates to file a tax return or pay taxes on income or payroll or interest or dividends or gifts or estates or trusts or capital gains, a tax that requires no return at all and no estimating or figuring of anything of any kind by anyone who chooses to pay the tax is an indirect voluntary tax.

Does such a tax exist? Why yes it does. Does the tax have a name? Why yes it does. What is the name of this tax? Why, the name of this tax is the FairTax. Oh my! Where do I learn more about this tax? In HB 25 of the US House of Representatives? What is the status of this tax? Well, it's proposed, introduced, read and assigned to the Ways and Means Committee of the US House of Representatives, waiting for a fair hearing in the United States Congress. Does it have co-sponsors? Why yes it does. How many does it have? Well, it has 1 Sponsor and 60 Co-Sponsors. Is that a lot of sponsors? Why yes it is. Why? Well, HB 3200 dealing with health care reform only had 8 by comparison. Wow, so it's very popular? Why yes it is, it most certainly is and everyone who loves liberty and the US Constitution appreciates why that is so.

Where can I learn more about the FairTax? You can learn more about the FairTax, HB 25 in the US House of Representatives at:

www.fairtax.org

Free At Last! Free At Last! Free At Last!

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Must see video...this will blow your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UcPeSb8kg

If we go by the Constitution, no it is not a legal or Constitutional tax. It does not follow the Constitutional mandate of apportionment, and even though the 16th Ammendment says otherwise, the 16th Ammendment is null and void on that one little point due to the supremecy clause in said Constitution. So right there that would nullify the Ammendment alone. The trouble is, the courts will not let you defend yourself with real evidence such as the Supreme Court rulings from 1916 to 1922 on the topic, as the supreme court and the Contitution including the applicable ammendments are not considered relevent since it is the purpose of the court to make examples out of targets to keep the herd in line as they march to the slaughter house.

Just like the phrase "voluntary compliance". If that isn't an oximoron, I don't know what is. Voluntary is of your own free will. Compliance is mandated as in the "traffic laws" they like akin it to. But traffic laws you can follow the written law, the statute that enforces the law, the regulation that enforces the statute, and the code that enforces regulation, and the Title that enforces the code. It has a chain of logical command. The tax laws don't. It is a muddled mess that even the accountants can't agree on. Take your 1040 and your info to 10 different CPAs and you will likely get 10 different totals. I know, I did it once just to verify it. * out of 8 were all different, by as much as 400 bucks. Now, if this was a legal logical tax, shouldn't you be able to go to 8 different accountants and get the exact same figures? Logic would dictate that train of thought.

Oh, and try reading the entire code book. Light reading. Not. It's so mired by twists and turns that it creates a spider web from which there is no escape.

But don't stop following the rules even if they aren't legal. As Ron Paul says, if they have all the guns, and they think it's legal, well........

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Must see video...this will blow your mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UcPeSb8kg

If we go by the Constitution, no it is not a legal or Constitutional tax. It does not follow the Constitutional mandate of apportionment, and even though the 16th Ammendment says otherwise, the 16th Ammendment is null and void on that one little point due to the supremecy clause in said Constitution. So right there that would nullify the Ammendment alone. The trouble is, the courts will not let you defend yourself with real evidence such as the Supreme Court rulings from 1916 to 1922 on the topic, as the supreme court and the Contitution including the applicable ammendments are not considered relevent since it is the purpose of the court to make examples out of targets to keep the herd in line as they march to the slaughter house.

Just like the phrase "voluntary compliance". If that isn't an oximoron, I don't know what is. Voluntary is of your own free will. Compliance is mandated as in the "traffic laws" they like akin it to. But traffic laws you can follow the written law, the statute that enforces the law, the regulation that enforces the statute, and the code that enforces regulation, and the Title that enforces the code. It has a chain of logical command. The tax laws don't. It is a muddled mess that even the accountants can't agree on. Take your 1040 and your info to 10 different CPAs and you will likely get 10 different totals. I know, I did it once just to verify it. * out of 8 were all different, by as much as 400 bucks. Now, if this was a legal logical tax, shouldn't you be able to go to 8 different accountants and get the exact same figures? Logic would dictate that train of thought.

Oh, and try reading the entire code book. Light reading. Not. It's so mired by twists and turns that it creates a spider web from which there is no escape.

But don't stop following the rules even if they aren't legal. As Ron Paul says, if they have all the guns, and they think it's legal, well........

The day of mandatory convoluted inexplicable non-verifiable income taxes has waned. It was tried, and it has failed. Our country is bankrupt because of it, our people are in debt $14 trillion and climbing, and the Congress is using mandated health care "reform" to access all your bank accounts to drain the last drop of wealth and wage from the people of the United States to pay these lenders.

Actually Judy, the writing was on the wall along time ago. But they won't stop until the people have either been utterly broken, or they rise up and restore their Republic and legal government. Ya' know, --But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.--

The interesting thing, is that every dollar in circulation is borrowed into circulation creating debt. Now as Andrew Jackson did after killing the 2nd Bank of the United States, with paying off the debt, there was no money of fiat in circulation. Therefore, the only Constitutional money of real coin only needs to have an ammount as Benjamin Franklin said in circulation that is needed to ease the flow of commerce.

Also the destructive practice of fractional reserve banking needs to be stopped. When a bank can loan out 10 times more than it has in reserves, that is insidious, even more than the mandatory tax, as it is a hidden tax that transfers wealth to the haves without people even knowing it.

But there is a slew of things that need to be stopped. Hopefully these 10th Ammendment legislations that are building steam will actually make a dent. That would be a start in the right direction. And it would finally reverse FDR's destructive and consolidating motives that in 1935 elevated the Federal Government above the States, and their Sovereignty.

Doesn't this belong in the "Other Topics" forum?

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Actually Judy, the writing was on the wall along time ago. But they won't stop until the people have either been utterly broken, or they rise up and restore their Republic and legal government. Ya' know, --But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.--

The interesting thing, is that every dollar in circulation is borrowed into circulation creating debt. Now as Andrew Jackson did after killing the 2nd Bank of the United States, with paying off the debt, there was no money of fiat in circulation. Therefore, the only Constitutional money of real coin only needs to have an ammount as Benjamin Franklin said in circulation that is needed to ease the flow of commerce.

Also the destructive practice of fractional reserve banking needs to be stopped. When a bank can loan out 10 times more than it has in reserves, that is insidious, even more than the mandatory tax, as it is a hidden tax that transfers wealth to the haves without people even knowing it.

But there is a slew of things that need to be stopped. Hopefully these 10th Ammendment legislations that are building steam will actually make a dent. That would be a start in the right direction. And it would finally reverse FDR's destructive and consolidating motives that in 1935 elevated the Federal Government above the States, and their Sovereignty.

Well, the fractional reserve banking has been around alot longer than the Federal Reserve since before the 1800's starting with the goldsmiths who used to keep the coin money for depositors and loan it out at 1 rate so they could pay the depositor a portion of it at another rate and earn the difference in revenue for their service. There's nothing wrong with fractional reserve banking per se, in fact, that's really the only way it can work. Are the ratios too high, possibly, I really don't know the numbers, but I will say this ... I've borrowed a lot of money ... for business as well for homes, and I really don't have a complaint with our banking system. I do think we need to audit the Federal Reserve and find out what in the world is going on. I think the Federal Reserve is using monetary policy to bankrupt the United States. But the banking community in general has worked very hard to improve services, improve convenience, improve availability of information, customer services, locations, access, and loans at the lowest rates they can offer it and still make a profit. But there are bad banks just like there are bad car dealers. Some are better than others, but most are good, decent entities.

That's not to say it wouldn't work better without a Federal Reserve. That's not to say there shouldn't be changes and improvements in the regulatory environment. But whatever contact an American has with a bank, is voluntary. No one is mandated to put their money in one, no one is mandated to borrow from one, and no one is mandated to pay them money for something they don't want and didn't agree to buy or pay. Do they have little tricks, oh yes. Do they at times commit predatory lending, oh yes. Do they turn on you when you're in a jam, oh yes, some certainly do. Do they use their mortgage documents to cheat people out of their property and investment? Oh yes, many do that.

So to me, mandated taxation is the first evil that needs to be dispensed because that's what creates the revenue stream that drives the evils of government spending, deficits, borrowing, bailouts and loan guarantees, activities our government would never engage in to begin with but for the mandated tax stream that can be manipulated at any time for any reason with a 15 minute roll call vote of 535 people robbing 300 million to line the pockets of a few thousand.

If a water pipe breaks in your house, what's the first thing you do? Get the mop or shut off the water? Of course, the first thing you do is shut off the water. Then you mop it up and fix the pipe. If we want to stop this flood of evil that's flooding our government, the first thing we have to do is shut off the money and that means shutting down mandated taxation which changes the flow of the money, which changes the tax stream, which changes everything for the evil feeding off of it.

Government won't be able to run these huge deficits with the FairTax in place, because it won't have a mandated tax stream any more that lenders can rely upon, so they won't loan our government the same amount of money on the same terms as in previous years. The FairTax changes everything for these traitors, because under the FairTax their tax stream they've been peddling around like bath tub cheese is no longer as marketable because it's no longer guaranteed by a police state.

That's a simplistic explanation of the impact of the FairTax on our government, but it's an accurate one.

And you're absolutely right that there are a slew of things that need to be fixed, but we can't fix any of them until we shut off the water, which means shutting down mandated taxation. And the FairTax does that.

www.fairtax.org