Thread: Toward The Tipping Point

Toward The Tipping Point
By David Limbaugh
November 18, 2008

In the aftermath of the 2008 Republican electoral bloodbath, many are discussing what direction the party should take to recapture its vitality and viability. Liberals -- as if they have the best interests of the GOP at heart -- and so-called elitist, Northeastern Republicans seem to agree the party should tack center. I disagree.

Traditional conservatism and its advocates invariably get bad raps. They're painted as uncompromising, uncompassionate extremists who won't adjust to the realities of the 21st century.

But those familiar with modern history understand that these intramural debates have been going on for decades. I remember my father complaining about Rockefeller Republicans in the early '60s, so the schism had to have begun much earlier than that.

From what I can gather, the David Brooks and David Frum wing of the conservative movement wants conservatism to grow, sort of like liberals want the Constitution to be a "living document." Big government -- at least, an active, energetic government -- is here to stay, and we better get on board. Our debate with liberals must be one of minor degree rather than kind. We should accept, rather than resist or attempt to roll back, the leviathan and instead address how best to direct it, lest we relegate ourselves to political irrelevance.

We traditionalists should acknowledge that in one sense, the Davids have a point. After all, it was no less a traditionalist than Mark Steyn, if I may categorize him as such, who recently lamented that "settled democratic societies rarely vote to 'go left.' Yet oddly enough that's where they've all gone."

I think Steyn is merely expressing the paradox that democratic societies are difficult to sustain in the spirit of the oft-stated axiom -- attributed to a half-dozen people -- that a "democracy" would last until people figured out they could vote themselves money from the public treasury. Benjamin Franklin offered a similar admonition when a woman asked him to describe the form of government the Framers had just crafted: "A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

This, I think, gets to the very heart of the rub between the traditionalists and the Davids. The Framers designed a scheme of limited government because they believed that such was the best -- or the least worst -- avenue to maximizing individual liberty. They believed that though man has a yearning to be free, his fallen human condition militates against freedom for society as a whole, absent mechanisms in place to check the natural and clearly established historical tendency of man toward absolutism.

Traditionalists see themselves as guardians of our unique Constitution, which secures liberty as a byproduct of pitting levels and branches of government against one another.

They believe that unless we rededicate ourselves, intellectually and emotionally, to our founding ideal of individual liberty -- as opposed to succumbing to the insidious, intoxicating, cowardly promise of government-provided security at all levels of our existence -- we can kiss liberty -- and the United States of America as we have known it -- goodbye.

Part of the problem is that we have enjoyed such unparalleled freedoms and prosperity that we have been lulled into the false notion that they will continue in perpetuity, even as we betray, to ever-greater extremes, our founding principles. But traditionalists understand that there is a tipping point beyond which this incessant socialist piggybacking on our capitalistic economic system and these ever-deepening encroachments on our scheme of government (for example, through judicial activism) will finally bring us to our knees.

Traditionalists don't oppose this or that "high-minded" plan aimed at delivering security (e.g., health care) or prosperity (e.g., direct transfer payments from producers to nonproducers) because they don't want more people to be prosperous but because they do and because they cherish freedom. We know that socialism never works and always results in less prosperity, on top of its obvious freedom-stripping inevitabilities.

The nontraditionalists don't seem to share our recognition of the ephemeral nature of liberty -- as if all of human history weren't enough proof. They don't appreciate that by joining liberals intellectually on their turf by simply quibbling over what percentage of abject socialism we'll permit, we are ultimately signing our own national death warrant.

As quaint as it sounds, someone has to advocate a return to first principles. We don't have to concede that America cannot reverse its path toward European socialism. But we will have conceded if we merely try to outdo liberals on their terrain by being "compassionate conservatives."

Our charge is to make the case for liberty and that traditionalism is inherently compassionate. If we don't have the courage to confront the seductive promises of socialism and demonization by the politically correct and pseudo-compassionate, we will surely fail in our duty to bequeath the blessings of liberty to our posterity.

http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/dlimba ... 1181.shtml

The republican party should step down from it's high position and let a real American party step in, like the Constitution Party.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

The republican party should step down from it's high position and let a real American party step in, like the Constitution Party.

It really doesn't matter anymore, illegal immigration, which party has control of the White House, the Congress, whatever.

Our treasury and prosperity have been stolen, our car manufactuerers will be sold to China, Bush the traitor has signed over the reigns of our economy to the EU, our leaders have aided and abetted an invasion and a man was allowed to run for and become President whose qualifications don't even meet what is outlined in our Constitution. Dozens of elected officials have betrayed us as well as the heads of corporate America. What the f--- else has to happen before we realize that we are no longer a sovereign America? As a nation, WE HAVE BEEN GUTTED. So fighting for illegal immigration seems sort of moot now. End of story..uh, not quite, don't let them dare come for my guns.

Originally Posted by Rockfish

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

The republican party should step down from it's high position and let a real American party step in, like the Constitution Party.

It really doesn't matter anymore, illegal immigration, which party has control of the White House, the Congress, whatever.

Our treasury and prosperity have been stolen, our car manufactuerers will be sold to China, Bush the traitor has signed over the reigns of our economy to the EU, our leaders have aided and abetted an invasion and a man was allowed to run for and become President whose qualifications don't even meet what is outlined in our Constitution. Dozens of elected officials have betrayed us as well as the heads of corporate America. What the f--- else has to happen before we realize that we are no longer a sovereign America? As a nation, WE HAVE BEEN GUTTED. So fighting for illegal immigration seems sort of moot now. End of story..uh, not quite, don't let them dare come for my guns.

Well Rockfish, you still like me have the ability to perform the last great act in defiance of tyranny if it comes to that. Only hope that it doesn't. But do remember this crap happenned over a long period of time by diabolical greedy, power hungry people. We're not going to swing the pendullum back in our direction overnight either. Have we been fleeced? Yer darn tootin' we've been fleeced. Do we stand a chance alone, no. Do we stand a chance together. Yes we do, and it doesn't necessarily mean huge numbers. But the founding fathers didn't have huge numbers either. But they knew that every man who stood for liberty, was worth ten hired assasins. And don't forget, it always looks bleak before it gets better.

[quote=Hylander_1314]

Originally Posted by Rockfish

Originally Posted by "Hylander_1314":1jq6oi4w

The republican party should step down from it's high position and let a real American party step in, like the Constitution Party.

It really doesn't matter anymore, illegal immigration, which party has control of the White House, the Congress, whatever.

Our treasury and prosperity have been stolen, our car manufactuerers will be sold to China, Bush the traitor has signed over the reigns of our economy to the EU, our leaders have aided and abetted an invasion and a man was allowed to run for and become President whose qualifications don't even meet what is outlined in our Constitution. Dozens of elected officials have betrayed us as well as the heads of corporate America. What the f--- else has to happen before we realize that we are no longer a sovereign America? As a nation, WE HAVE BEEN GUTTED. So fighting for illegal immigration seems sort of moot now. End of story..uh, not quite, don't let them dare come for my guns.

Well Rockfish, you still like me have the ability to perform the last great act in defiance of tyranny if it comes to that. Only hope that it doesn't. But do remember this crap happenned over a long period of time by diabolical greedy, power hungry people. We're not going to swing the pendullum back in our direction overnight either. Have we been fleeced? Yer darn tootin' we've been fleeced. Do we stand a chance alone, no. Do we stand a chance together. Yes we do, and it doesn't necessarily mean huge numbers. But the founding fathers didn't have huge numbers either. But they knew that every man who stood for liberty, was worth ten hired assasins. And don't forget, it always looks bleak before it gets better.[/quote:1jq6oi4w]

Thanks Hylander for those encouraging words. I really feel now that our military leaders should be knocking on the door of Bushface with arrest warrents for high treason. My alligence is with our Constitution, not with the puke occupying the White House..or the next occupant for that matter.

Thanks Hylander for those encouraging words. I really feel now that our military leaders should be knocking on the door of Bushface with arrest warrents for high treason. My alligence is with our Constitution, not with the puke occupying the White House..or the next occupant for that matter.

I am with you on all of this ..... I want these corrupt TREASONOUS Politicians on Trial

Just keep your chin up. I know all this looks huge, but even B. Dylan said "what looks large from a distance, up close ain't never that big."

Remember we are not alone. Even if no one is around, the spirit of liberty and Divine Providence is always there to guide us on our journey. And I know what it feels like to think about being left completely and utterly alone. Been there done that, got the tee shirt, coffee mug, and soda can holder. But once we reach rock bottom, there's only one way to go, and that's up.

So as long as the spirit of liberty lives in our hearts, the flame of the torch of freedom will not be extinguished.

Samaual Adams is correct,

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Just keep your chin up. I know all this looks huge, but even B. Dylan said "what looks large from a distance, up close ain't never that big."

Remember we are not alone. Even if no one is around, the spirit of liberty and Divine Providence is always there to guide us on our journey. And I know what it feels like to think about being left completely and utterly alone. Been there done that, got the tee shirt, coffee mug, and soda can holder. But once we reach rock bottom, there's only one way to go, and that's up.

So as long as the spirit of liberty lives in our hearts, the flame of the torch of freedom will not be extinguished.

Samaual Adams is correct,

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."

Anyone have a Kleenex?? That was beautiful Hylander. Thanks! Also, remember that there's more of US than THEM! We've just got to wake up and educate the rest of our neighbors. The one good thing about this broken economy is that I think people will finally be more receptive to hearing the truth and possibly more motivated to do something about what's going on. I sincerely pray that it doesn't get ugly but you know what happens when you corner a wild animal and their back is up against the wall. I truly sense this is happening to the average citizen right now. They're squeezing us dry. Sometimes I wonder if it's actually all intentional to get a response out of us.

Thanks Chloe! That is most kind.

I sincerely pray that it doesn't get ugly but you know what happens when you corner a wild animal and their back is up against the wall.

Don't forget to add how much more intense it is when the youngins are thrown into the mix. That is when it really turns ugly.

Sometimes I wonder if it's actually all intentional to get a response out of us.

I have been of the opinion that this is exactly what's wanted so the 2nd Ammendment along with the Constitution can be rescinded and we will end up with UN forces patrolling our streets. Along with a dictatorship installed to impliment with an iron fist, totalitarian edict.