Thread: Shocking Lou Dobbs Video! Opinions Needed ASAP

Good idea William - nite all.

I don't blame them for coming here nearly as much as I blame the US - and that also spells 'us' - for allowing this situation to happen and to have lasted so long.

redoaklady, when I hear that WE allowed this to happen it makes me bristle. I didn't ALLOW this to happen, I didn't SEE it happening, I didn't WANT it to happen. It happened because of greedy business owners and corrupt politicians. During his campaign, McCain made the mistake of saying that WE allowed this to happen. He lost my respect at that moment in time. I am not part of the WE that he talked about and neither are the overwhelming majority of Americans. I'm sick of this crap being blamed on normal, everyday, hard working Americans.

Originally Posted by redoaklady

Originally Posted by Bowman

I have personally met thousands of foreign families like you describe overseas, in Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Africa, Mexico, Eastern Europe, etc. What makes your Guatemalan in-laws so special, better than the many millions of foreigns who the US does not let in? Nothing is the answer.

I suggest they sell their house, take the money and start a new and better life in Guatemala. If they are as hard working as you say they will find the opportunities there. If everyone else in the world can do it, so can they.

Well, Bowman, you're quite the world traveler. You make me wonder just where the 'etc.' is. You're ahead of me, I've been to Mexico several times, China, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and quite a few more places as we lived in Europe for a while and traveled a lot - I've met a some people who are living in abject poverty and some who aren't. I was living in Germany when the 'wall' fell and met East Germans who flooded the 'west' side of the wall in their little, crummy, cheaply made Trabis that kept breaking down on the side of the road. The joy on their faces was a sight to see. I watched them wander through stores looking at goods they never thought they would see, much less be able to afford. They bought irons and tv's and microwaves and it was like Christmas. I also watched the West Germans gradually become disenchanted with their Eastern cousins and want them to go 'back home' and take their Trabis with them. I found some of the worst conditions in China. I don't quite understand the sarcasm, though. Did I do something to you personally I'm not aware of?

There's NOTHING special about my in-law's family. That's the point. They are just nice people trying to make a better life for themselves and their children. If you read my whole text you would have seen that I said they would have to go, too.

What IS special to ME about this family is that they put a real human face to what so many of us only see in our heads as "ILLEGALS" in flashing red neon letters. I also live in Texas where there are LOTS of illegals. While driving for Meals on Wheels I ran across a 'nest' of illegals living in several squalid trailers in my town near where an old man lived that I delivered a hot lunch to once a week. The men come, find a trailer or house in a terrible part of town and maybe 20 or so all pile in together so they can send what money they can make back home. I don't condone it - I don't like it. It's just a fact. There is absolutely nothing special about them except that they are fellow human beings.

I don't blame them for coming here nearly as much as I blame the US - and that also spells 'us' - for allowing this situation to happen and to have lasted so long.

Judy says the last time we cleaned house was Eisenhower. I guess that means that a lot of these illegals we'll be loading onto busses will have to qualify for the wheel-chair/nursing home bus, they've lived here so long. I didn't do it - you didn't do it - WE did it. When WE let it go so long, why wouldn't people who wanted food for their childrens' tummies and irons and microwaves come here? It was wrong. It IS wrong. It is something we need to fix - to change.

Polls say that 78 - 80% of Americans (depending on which poll) want ALL illegals to go home. That's a LOT of Americans for our elected officials to have been ignoring. We are STILL being ignored. Just listen to our president go on about his 'path to citizenship! He was saying that BEFORE he got elected and he STILL got to the White House. ALIPACers are here because we woke up - 5 years ago - 5 months ago - we woke up and said, "Something must be done." Polls of 'Latin-Americans' (legal ones, born or naturalized) show the same sort of figures. THEY don't think it is right, either.

We are, as a people, waking up - a sleeping giant of citizens is coming out of the coma we've been in since Eisenhower. Now, WE want something done! Of course, we do. We see the problem, we want to correct it. I want to correct it. I'm afraid, though, although those polls show an 'awareness' by many Americans of the problem - we don't see 80% of Americans joining ALIPAC. Maybe not enough of them watched Lou Dobbs - which is where I heard about ALIPAC and NumbersUSA. It's a shame he won't have that forum - maybe he will find another. He has done a LOT to cause that 80% figure in the polls to vote that way, I'm sure. If he had a little more time, maybe there would be more ALIPACers coming behind me.

There are going to be many ways of seeing to it that the illegals go home -IF enough Americans do more than just vote in a poll. They have to vote in the elections for NEW blood - vigorous blood - lawmakers who aren't afraid of making and enforcing laws. ICE was seeing to it that businesses were raided, illegals put out of jobs and doing a good job of it. We saw a natural attrition as those people head back home because they were out of work. ICE has now been ordered to cease and desist in doing their jobs and enforcing the laws. All my emails and faxes I send through the good graces of NumbersUSA hasn't changed that. My congressmen/
woman hear from me at least once a week - the president too - we're practically on a first name basis. ICE still can't do its job.

In Texas, our state government meets for a few months every two years. There were several very important laws before Congress regarding the illegal situation in Texas, including one to exclude my taxes from paying for 'deserving' children of illegals to go to college (after all, it's not THEIR fault their parents - and they - are illegal) - students who are knocking AMERICAN CITIZENS out of that seat in that classroom. Every one of those bills, despite the raft of emails I sent and phone calls I made - remained 'in committee' until the session expired in June. Our wonderful governor saw to it that those laws didn't even make it to the floor for discussion, much less a vote. Two more years before they convene again. Pretty rediculous, isn't it? Pretty pitiful - and this guy's up for re-election in 2010. He'll probably make it, too - or someone else who is no better. POLITICS.

No, there's nothing special about any of them, except that they are human beings just like us and we tend to forget that. The only negative comments I have gotten on this site had to do with my family's in-laws and the fact that I felt compassion for them (not that I didn't say they had to go back, too). I wonder why that is? Are we afraid to put faces to these numbers?

They need to go home. We NEED for them to go home. I don't think we'll meet Judy's ideal any time soon, and that's a shame. If we are to be the 'shining light' for all countries to model themselves after - we should be one who shows the world how to uphold its own laws. I wish we would. I'd sign up for one of those temporary jobs, Judy. So would you. But how many more of us are there that will do more than talk - rant and whine - or ignore. I'm afraid it will take a few more years (and by then it may be too late) for enough people to have a craw full and actually DO something. We've become a nation of 'let Joe do it' - the Sheriff Joes and the Joe Blows and the John Does of America. When will it change? I don't know. I hope it will be in time to save America.

For those of you who have not hear the audio of William's interview with Lou Dobbs, go here. William did excellent on outing him. Audio box is at the top.

http://tinyurl.com/yj9mtrh

Originally Posted by Judy

The local sheriffs and police departments know where they all are, where they live, where they work, they know everything, certainly enough to get a search warrant. In fact they're going to have half of them in their files and databases already. How concerned have you been for the past 40 years over no knock warrants against US citizens looking for "marijuana growing in the home" on anonymous tips from snitches and digging through trash cans or stopping someone on an expired tag or parking funny and searching their car for drugs? They'll also have hot lines for people to call in. They'll also interview apartment owners and ask to review their records, and inquire of property owners and banks and all types of things, in their investigations as they gather evidence. They'll investigate, gather the information, tips and evidence to support a search/arrest warrant and if they find illegal aliens then they arrest them. The warrant empowers them to ask the people in the work place, home, business, restaurant, Walmart etc., for identification.

I mean we live in a country, "My America", where it's okay to stop people in their cars for reason at all and ask for their license and registration without any warrant or probable cause at all. They're called "check points". Then they arrest US citizens for having been to a bar, give them a breathalyzer and then ruin their lives or shoot them in the back for "resisting arrest" for a DUI.

I don't know where you've been LAPhil, but US Citizens are experiencing a form of genocide inside their own country, having their jobs stripped, their rights squashed, their liberty and lives taken all for crimes of far less magnitude than the ravages of illegal immigration.

On January 8, 2008, a US Citizen named Stephen Thornton, who grew medical marijuana for his own use as a cancer survivor as well as for other cancer patients was killed during a no-knock warrant raid in Raleigh, North Carolina. He was a federal drug fugitive because he refused to give up the names of his customers, who were all cancer patients. He fled Texas and ended up in Raleigh, where local authorities on a tip put him under surveillance and then 5 days later raided his home "looking for marijuana growing in the home" without even knowing that he was a federal fugitive on a drug and firearms charge from Texas. He fled Texas because he was fairly certain he would die in prison.

This is November 2009. There has been no police report released. The SBI, State Bureau of Investigation also investigated this shooting, they have sealed the file without ever reporting on their findings, and that's it. A guy who had found a way to survive pancreatic cancer and help others do the same, a chemist and very intelligent, shot to death at 9 am in the morning in his home over "marijuana plants growing in the home".

Where's the outrage? Where's the lawsuit? Where's the ACLU? The SPLC? The ADL?

A few months earlier, an 18 year old US Citizen named Peyton Strickland was shot to death in his home through a door, unarmed, by police executing a no knock search warrant looking for some stolen video game Playstations on a "tip". No knock warrant, SWAT Team Commander shot this kid through the door, 3 times, once in his heart area, once in his head and once in his shoulder. Then they killed his dog, Blaze. They searched the house while Peyton lay there bleeding to death. It took him 4 hours to die, and he died before his parents could make the drive from Durham, NC to Wilmington, NC, they got the call on their cell phone on the interstate that Peyton had died, while they are about 30 minutes from the hospital. This took place in Wilmington, NC because he was going to college there. The stolen Playstations weren't in Peyton's house.

The Sheriff's Deputy who killed Peyton was fired, prosecutors tried to indict him for second degree murder, but the grand jury refused to indict. Where's the outrage? Where's the ACLU? The SPLC? The ADL? Nowhere to be found. There was a lawsuit, his father was a lawyer, they settled out of court for wrongful death. He had lived in the dorm which didn't allow pets. His dog, Blaze, missed him so much he wouldn't eat after Peyton went to college. So Peyton moved out of the dorm into this house with a room-mate, so Blaze could be with him. That's why Peyton lived in this house to begin with and why his dog was with him. Now they're both in a urn sitting on his parents fireplace mantel, Peyton in 1 urn and Blaze in another.

Where's the outrage? There is no outrage. So give it up with this special treatment of illegal aliens. We've allowed our government to create a special class of untouchables while they murder and tase US citizens to death in their own homes without a peep from anyone, except an occasional "Judy" out there blogging about the injustice of it all.

Illegal aliens are going home by all means necessary. We have to do this and we have to do it ourselves with our local Sheriff and Police Departments and State Highway Patrols. The Feds had their chance, and they blew it.

All you need for a warrant is reasonable cause to suspect there are illegal aliens living or present in a residence, working in a facility or shopping in a store. This isn't rocket science. All you need is a tip, the same they used to raid and kill Stephen Thornton and Peyton Strickland in their own homes.

Judy, you gave quite a few examples of the government's abuses of power as though that somehow makes it OK. Well, none of those things you cited were OK with me. We have a Constitution for a reason, which is to prevent the government from committing these types of abuses. You want me to "give it up with this special treatment of illegal aliens"? Believe me, I am not for any special treatment of illegal aliens, in fact, quite the opposite. The whole problem is that they do get special treatment all the time.

We also don't have this vast knowledge of who are the illegals are in this country as you claim, because in most cases no one bothers to find out by checking for a green card, let alone putting them in a data base. Oh, it's true if they've committed a crime, and in that case I say deport them summarily after a hearing. But I still say you can't deport anyone you can't first identify, so the idea is still impractical. Certainly deport those you can, but I think we need to stick to the plan of self-deportations, which I already discussed at the beginning of this debate.

It's a shame that Mr. Gheen's final words were not continued. Please drop my pledge for Lou Dobbs. I got to hear him respond, and I too disagree with what I got through the double-speak coming from him.

I agree with your statements. I believe it would be totally wrong to just legalize 20-30 million illegals by rewarding them and showing them that breaking our immigration laws are condoned and welcome so the next 30 million can also break our laws and be legalized.

The only logical way wouold be like you say, to demand that all illegals return to the countries they left nd apply to reenter the U.S. "legally" and get to the end of the like millions of other aliens who have patiently waited many years to come in legally.

I have a friend of mine who came from Sicily, Italy and took him 10 years
to be admitted he said because the 125,000 illegal Mariel Cuban refugee
invasion of Miami came with 50,000 murderers, psychopaths, criminally insane, hitmen, enforcers, drug pushers, prostitutes all had an immigration status preference ahead of my friend from Scicily who has no
crime in his background and is a self sufficient businessman who brought
a large amount of his own funds with him when he entered the USA.

Also, he is an upstanding community model and a great benefit to his
community and the USA and our laws.

Originally Posted by Smitty0001

I've watched Lou Dobbs for years and was glad to see him finally leave CNN. I am not happy with his answer for how to solve our problem with illegal aliens though. A path towards becoming a citizen is a reward for the law breaker which is not right. There are millions of people who have been waiting in line to come here legally and no one who has snuck into our country in violation of our laws should be put at the front of the line ahead of them. They also should not be allowed to stay here until their number comes up so to speak for them to become a legal immigrant.

Telemundo did a hatchet job with this interview and Lou did a pretty good job of over all answering the ladies questions.

I would not vote for Lou Dobbs for any office unless he changed his stance on a path towards becoming legal for illegal aliens. The only way for them to become legal is for them to go back to their native country and to get in line like everyone else.

Please be sure and comment here:


http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-179954.html

Originally Posted by LAPhil

Originally Posted by Judy

The local sheriffs and police departments know where they all are, where they live, where they work, they know everything, certainly enough to get a search warrant. In fact they're going to have half of them in their files and databases already. How concerned have you been for the past 40 years over no knock warrants against US citizens looking for "marijuana growing in the home" on anonymous tips from snitches and digging through trash cans or stopping someone on an expired tag or parking funny and searching their car for drugs? They'll also have hot lines for people to call in. They'll also interview apartment owners and ask to review their records, and inquire of property owners and banks and all types of things, in their investigations as they gather evidence. They'll investigate, gather the information, tips and evidence to support a search/arrest warrant and if they find illegal aliens then they arrest them. The warrant empowers them to ask the people in the work place, home, business, restaurant, Walmart etc., for identification.

I mean we live in a country, "My America", where it's okay to stop people in their cars for reason at all and ask for their license and registration without any warrant or probable cause at all. They're called "check points". Then they arrest US citizens for having been to a bar, give them a breathalyzer and then ruin their lives or shoot them in the back for "resisting arrest" for a DUI.

I don't know where you've been LAPhil, but US Citizens are experiencing a form of genocide inside their own country, having their jobs stripped, their rights squashed, their liberty and lives taken all for crimes of far less magnitude than the ravages of illegal immigration.

On January 8, 2008, a US Citizen named Stephen Thornton, who grew medical marijuana for his own use as a cancer survivor as well as for other cancer patients was killed during a no-knock warrant raid in Raleigh, North Carolina. He was a federal drug fugitive because he refused to give up the names of his customers, who were all cancer patients. He fled Texas and ended up in Raleigh, where local authorities on a tip put him under surveillance and then 5 days later raided his home "looking for marijuana growing in the home" without even knowing that he was a federal fugitive on a drug and firearms charge from Texas. He fled Texas because he was fairly certain he would die in prison.

This is November 2009. There has been no police report released. The SBI, State Bureau of Investigation also investigated this shooting, they have sealed the file without ever reporting on their findings, and that's it. A guy who had found a way to survive pancreatic cancer and help others do the same, a chemist and very intelligent, shot to death at 9 am in the morning in his home over "marijuana plants growing in the home".

Where's the outrage? Where's the lawsuit? Where's the ACLU? The SPLC? The ADL?

A few months earlier, an 18 year old US Citizen named Peyton Strickland was shot to death in his home through a door, unarmed, by police executing a no knock search warrant looking for some stolen video game Playstations on a "tip". No knock warrant, SWAT Team Commander shot this kid through the door, 3 times, once in his heart area, once in his head and once in his shoulder. Then they killed his dog, Blaze. They searched the house while Peyton lay there bleeding to death. It took him 4 hours to die, and he died before his parents could make the drive from Durham, NC to Wilmington, NC, they got the call on their cell phone on the interstate that Peyton had died, while they are about 30 minutes from the hospital. This took place in Wilmington, NC because he was going to college there. The stolen Playstations weren't in Peyton's house.

The Sheriff's Deputy who killed Peyton was fired, prosecutors tried to indict him for second degree murder, but the grand jury refused to indict. Where's the outrage? Where's the ACLU? The SPLC? The ADL? Nowhere to be found. There was a lawsuit, his father was a lawyer, they settled out of court for wrongful death. He had lived in the dorm which didn't allow pets. His dog, Blaze, missed him so much he wouldn't eat after Peyton went to college. So Peyton moved out of the dorm into this house with a room-mate, so Blaze could be with him. That's why Peyton lived in this house to begin with and why his dog was with him. Now they're both in a urn sitting on his parents fireplace mantel, Peyton in 1 urn and Blaze in another.

Where's the outrage? There is no outrage. So give it up with this special treatment of illegal aliens. We've allowed our government to create a special class of untouchables while they murder and tase US citizens to death in their own homes without a peep from anyone, except an occasional "Judy" out there blogging about the injustice of it all.

Illegal aliens are going home by all means necessary. We have to do this and we have to do it ourselves with our local Sheriff and Police Departments and State Highway Patrols. The Feds had their chance, and they blew it.

All you need for a warrant is reasonable cause to suspect there are illegal aliens living or present in a residence, working in a facility or shopping in a store. This isn't rocket science. All you need is a tip, the same they used to raid and kill Stephen Thornton and Peyton Strickland in their own homes.

Judy, you gave quite a few examples of the government's abuses of power as though that somehow makes it OK. Well, none of those things you cited were OK with me. We have a Constitution for a reason, which is to prevent the government from committing these types of abuses. You want me to "give it up with this special treatment of illegal aliens"? Believe me, I am not for any special treatment of illegal aliens, in fact, quite the opposite. The whole problem is that they do get special treatment all the time.

We also don't have this vast knowledge of who are the illegals are in this country as you claim, because in most cases no one bothers to find out by checking for a green card, let alone putting them in a data base. Oh, it's true if they've committed a crime, and in that case I say deport them summarily after a hearing. But I still say you can't deport anyone you can't first identify, so the idea is still impractical. Certainly deport those you can, but I think we need to stick to the plan of self-deportations, which I already discussed at the beginning of this debate.

Of course we know who they are and can identify them. The states that have state income taxes have a list of 8 million illegal alien households with signed documents called tax returns that have their name, address, telephone number, TIN or no-match social security number, and the number of dependents listed. Counties have a list of all their names, their children that are in school, their addresses and telephone numbers, along with tax returns in many cases for the free school lunch program if they're enrolled in it which most are. Employers pay state unemployment insurance on their illegal workers so the states also have their names, address, TIN or no-match social security numbers through the Employment Security Offices. States that issued drivers licenses have lists of illegal aliens who were given driver's licenses. State universities and community colleges have lists of illegal aliens. Local police departments, sheriffs departments and state highway patrols have lists of illegal aliens who either have a traffic stop, an arrest or who have called in a complaint or who are already in custody. County and state hospitals have lists of who they are with their names, TIN or no-match social security number, address, telephone number and emergency contact. The states, counties and cities also have access to E-Verify to verify any suspect's illegal status sufficient for search/arrest warrants. Any complexities or pending actions will be addressed at deportation hearings through the immigration courts under due process of law.

The states and local governments know who they are, where they are and what they're doing. The claim that our governments at all levels don't know who is and is not an illegal alien is a false claim, a ruse. Because they do, and that's why states and local law enforcement agencies are who we must look to for enforcement of US immigration law.

I totally support self-deportation/attrition but not without an aggressive involuntary deportation program at the state and local level, because without a deportation program enforcing US immigration law, there is no trigger to motivate or induce self-deportation/attrition, is just another form of de facto amnesty, and no solution at all.

If you want to end the abuses of US citizens in our country like the ones I described in my examples, then we need to end the War on Drugs, legalize/regulate/tax under the FairTax the illegal drug trade, allow licensed US Citizens Only to run their own drug trade under a civil code instead of a criminal code, use a portion of the taxes they pay to underwrite the regulators, better public education about the risk and consequences of using drugs and free rehabilitation on demand without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it. Legalizing drugs will not only restore the liberty and security of US citizens, it will shut down the criminal, violent, illegal, clandestine black market drug trade that's responsible for open borders policies to begin with.

Once Americans take back their drug trade, run it themselves, the drug-related cross-border activity will dry up completely and securing our borders will be much easier because our politicians will no longer have anything to gain by keeping them open. The illegal drug trade is the primary cause of illegal immigration. Until people see that connection and connect those dots, they really won't be able to understand why our government has refused to enforce US immigration law. Open borders is how all the elites who use cocaine and other expensive drugs who control our politicians they so easily bought with campaign contributions get their drugs without anyone knowing about it, which is another reason why we must legalize and regulate all drugs, not just marijuana. I don't care what adults choose to use drugs, I just don't want them to use their drug use to perpetuate illegal immigration to keep our borders open, which is why we have this problem to begin with. These people don't give a hoot about immigrants or poor people coming here looking for a better life, they just want their supply of drugs and their cut of the massive illegal drug trade.

Originally Posted by Judy

If you want to end the abuses of US citizens in our country like the ones I described in my examples, then we need to end the War on Drugs, legalize/regulate/tax under the FairTax the illegal drug trade, allow licensed US Citizens Only to run their own drug trade under a civil code instead of a criminal code, use a portion of the taxes they pay to underwrite the regulators, better public education about the risk and consequences of using drugs and free rehabilitation on demand without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it. Legalizing drugs will not only restore the liberty and security of US citizens, it will shut down the criminal, violent, illegal, clandestine black market drug trade that's responsible for open borders policies to begin with.

Once Americans take back their drug trade, run it themselves, the drug-related cross-border activity will dry up completely and securing our borders will be much easier because our politicians will no longer have anything to gain by keeping them open. The illegal drug trade is the primary cause of illegal immigration. Until people see that connection and connect those dots, they really won't be able to understand why our government has refused to enforce US immigration law. Open borders is how all the elites who use cocaine and other expensive drugs who control our politicians they so easily bought with campaign contributions get their drugs without anyone knowing about it, which is another reason why we must legalize and regulate all drugs, not just marijuana. I don't care what adults choose to use drugs, I just don't want them to use their drug use to perpetuate illegal immigration to keep our borders open, which is why we have this problem to begin with. These people don't give a hoot about immigrants or poor people coming here looking for a better life, they just want their supply of drugs and their cut of the massive illegal drug trade.

My talking point for many years. I would change your legalizing to decriminalize however. There is a big difference. I also think education and a license to self prescribe. Once a person passes a written test for each drug they want to use they are given a license to self medicate. I think alcohol should also be on the lic. This way...like driving...if a person finds themselves in addiction or abuse or other violations such as selling or providing to minors etc. could be tracked. Legal ramifications ranging from minor to felony. Lots to talk about but you get my drift...

But the real bottom line for me is to stop the drug war and drug traffic insanity. In a perfect world people would not use drugs or alcohol or tobacco...this is not a perfect world.

I appreciate your thinking. I suppose this make us...liberals...

I have heard very little about Mexico legalizing drugs. They say it is an attempt to stop the drug cartels.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193616,00.html

You may also enjoy joining LEAP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNikI7tULj8

I know this got off topic but I felt it was important and does lend to illegal immigration.

Originally Posted by sk1951

Originally Posted by Judy

If you want to end the abuses of US citizens in our country like the ones I described in my examples, then we need to end the War on Drugs, legalize/regulate/tax under the FairTax the illegal drug trade, allow licensed US Citizens Only to run their own drug trade under a civil code instead of a criminal code, use a portion of the taxes they pay to underwrite the regulators, better public education about the risk and consequences of using drugs and free rehabilitation on demand without stigma for anyone who wants or needs it. Legalizing drugs will not only restore the liberty and security of US citizens, it will shut down the criminal, violent, illegal, clandestine black market drug trade that's responsible for open borders policies to begin with.

Once Americans take back their drug trade, run it themselves, the drug-related cross-border activity will dry up completely and securing our borders will be much easier because our politicians will no longer have anything to gain by keeping them open. The illegal drug trade is the primary cause of illegal immigration. Until people see that connection and connect those dots, they really won't be able to understand why our government has refused to enforce US immigration law. Open borders is how all the elites who use cocaine and other expensive drugs who control our politicians they so easily bought with campaign contributions get their drugs without anyone knowing about it, which is another reason why we must legalize and regulate all drugs, not just marijuana. I don't care what adults choose to use drugs, I just don't want them to use their drug use to perpetuate illegal immigration to keep our borders open, which is why we have this problem to begin with. These people don't give a hoot about immigrants or poor people coming here looking for a better life, they just want their supply of drugs and their cut of the massive illegal drug trade.

My talking point for many years. I would change your legalizing to decriminalize however. There is a big difference. I also think education and a license to self prescribe. Once a person passes a written test for each drug they want to use they are given a license to self medicate. I think alcohol should also be on the lic. This way...like driving...if a person finds themselves in addiction or abuse or other violations such as selling or providing to minors etc. could be tracked. Legal ramifications ranging from minor to felony. Lots to talk about but you get my drift...

But the real bottom line for me is to stop the drug war and drug traffic insanity. In a perfect world people would not use drugs or alcohol or tobacco...this is not a perfect world.

I appreciate your thinking. I suppose this make us...liberals...

I have heard very little about Mexico legalizing drugs. They say it is an attempt to stop the drug cartels.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193616,00.html

You may also enjoy joining LEAP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNikI7tULj8

I know this got off topic but I felt it was important and does lend to illegal immigration.

Yes, decriminalizing is another good word, perhaps better than legalizing, now that I think about it, because my whole point is that it should be safe and legal and regulated under a civil code rather than a criminal code. If someone breaks the regulations, then they pay a fine, or lose their license or whatever. I think your "license to use" is a great idea and fits in well with the better education. A lot of people use without knowing anything substantive about the products some of which aren't dangerous while others are very dangerous. So, having a training session to teach them and give them a certificate of completion or a license or whatever might be a good idea.

Yes, I frequent the LEAP site all the time and post their links alot I think the work they're doing is outstanding.

And oh yes, that would definitely mean we're "liberals". I'm a Republican from a family of Republicans that has been Republican since there were Republicans which means I'm a social liberal, fiscal conservative. My great grandfather volunteered for the Union Army to fight or die, as the case might be, to free the slaves. Fortunately he survived it and 4 years later, came home, and a few years after that married my great-grandmother. My great-great-great grandfather fought in the American Revolution, so yeah ... we've all been around here a long long long time raising hell for liberty.