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  1. #51
    Kittymama's Avatar
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    Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing in S

    raingirl2, and other honored members, the reason it matters in general, matters a great deal, whether the photo was staged (faked at the time of shooting -- i.e., a "plant" held up the sign), or manipulated (faked with a computer before posting), is that if this is not a real sign held in a real event, the message is not a demonstrator saying, "we want everyone free, we will shoot police, etc." It is someone trying to support ALIPAC's goals by distributing false information to help say "The Latinos at this L.A. demonstration are violent, lazy, greedy, impulsive criminals." If it's discovered to have been staged or faked, it impugns ALIPAC's credibililty and ethics.

    My examination of the photo, zoomed and unzoomed, reveals pixels of uniform size and distribution. For those unfamiliar with digital photo trivia, this means that if part of the image was inserted/pasted from elsewhere into a photo of the event, the added portion, enlarged or shrunk to fit, is precisely the same resolution (quality) of image (which would be a big coincidence) and lines up precisely at the spot it was added OR someone with extremely good skills went to far more trouble than I've ever seen in a composite (faked) photo. The light source and angle are also uniform throughout the image.

    Regarding points that have been raised so far:

    • It does appear that the word "free" and the bottom panel were added later. This happens all the time at live events. Black marker and one kind of cardboard at home, "free" added as an afterthought to the spontaneous design, the bottom panel added with a borrowed red marker and another kind of cardboard later in the day as passions rose. By the way, the top is free speech (holding a sign is not per se disturbing the peace), and the bottom is a threat that may be criminal even if displayed on a quiet suburban street corner -- a lawyer I ain't, but I think it's not okay to say you'll kill somebody.

    • I don't have any problem with the handwriting. The slant of lettering on a hand-lettered sign just depends what angle the board was at while you were writing -- it's much more variable than small writing on a sheet of paper. Physics.

    • I see no "blurring" between the top and bottom panels. Similar areas of uniform color appear in the blank areas of the top sign.

    • The man's head looks odd because he has a shirt draped around his neck.

    • The light area on his index finger looks consistent with the quality and tone of the rest of the image. It looks to me as though it might be a bandage or improvised bandage -- you can get a blister holding up a sign like that, or it might be for an earlier minor injury.

    • Re: the DVD cover text, it appears to be in Spanish. There are several Spanish words that end in "lante" or "gante." Vigilante is a word in Spanish. It has at least three different definitions, the English translations of which would be the nouns "watchman" and "vigilante" and the adjective "vigilant," meaning watchful, careful, alert, observant, protective. If it is used here to mean vigilante, it may be referring to U.S. law enforcement -- again, these demonstrators would be unlikely to be carrying materials in Spanish that refer to themselves this way. The word beginning "docu" is likely to be "documentario," a documentary film.

    • The man's T-shirt appears to be a souvenir shirt with the name of the Central American country Belize on it. It's a popular tourist destination for both Latin Americans and North Americans. In my opinon the shirt neither supports nor refutes the idea that a team of anti-illegal immigrant "pot-stirrers" might have held the sign and shot the photo.

    Hope this helps keep things on topic so ALIPAC can keep searching for the info they need.

  2. #52
    Senior Member LAPhil's Avatar
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    Re: Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittymama
    By the way, the top is free speech (holding a sign is not per se disturbing the peace), and the bottom is a threat that may be criminal even if displayed on a quiet suburban street corner -- a lawyer I ain't, but I think it's not okay to say you'll kill somebody.
    What do you suppose would happen if one of us were to hold up a sign at a rally saying "We will shoot more Mexicans until they stop invading our country"? He'd be arrested in a New York second! Yet nobody does a damn thing about this guy. I guess he's just on the politically correct side.
    LGBTQ (Let's Get Biden To Quit)

  3. #53
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    Re: Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittymama
    It is someone trying to support ALIPAC's goals by distributing false information to help say "The Latinos at this L.A. demonstration are violent, lazy, greedy, impulsive criminals." If it's discovered to have been staged or faked, it impugns ALIPAC's credibililty and ethics.
    Just because someone faked the sign to make it seem real does not mean that persons supports ALIPAC, lots of people feel the same as the members here and dont know anything about this site.

  4. #54
    Kittymama's Avatar
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    Re: Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing

    Just because someone faked the sign to make it seem real does not mean that persons supports ALIPAC, lots of people feel the same as the members here and dont know anything about this site.
    I didn't mean anything more than that; sorry if that was misleading. There are plenty of people who "feel the same" and to me, that is supportive. There are also people who will resort to violence on all sides of this issue.

    . . .if one of us were to hold up a sign at a rally saying "We will shoot more Mexicans until they stop invading our country"? He'd be arrested in a New York second! Yet nobody does a damn thing about this guy. I guess he's just on the politically correct side.
    It doesn't take any longer to shoot a photo than it does for a sign to get the attention of law enforcement. You think every demonstrator had a cop close enough to take him down before someone could snap a pic? Physics, people, physics. It's disingenuous to say "no one did a thing about this guy" because we have no idea at this point what happened immediately after the photo was taken. What if we calmly stick to the facts and to the topic in this particular discussion, which is about the photo? That will do ALIPAC and everyone else the most good.

  5. #55
    Senior Member Floorguy's Avatar
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    The top looks real, but the bottom part in red looks added.

    Now back to the top. It looks like one of our guys amongst them, telling the truth of what they really want.
    Travis and Crockett, are flopping in their graves

  6. #56
    Senior Member uniteasone's Avatar
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    Welcome to all the newcomers to ALIPAC and thank you for joining us.

    The violent reaction to SB1070 in Arizona just shows how these people think and what their true agenda really is. This type of attitude will hurt them more then anything. Just like when they wave the Mexican flag for all to see. I hope we are all making phone calls to our state legislators and Governor's to follow suit with Arizona.
    "When you have knowledge,you have a responsibility to do better"_ Paula Johnson

    "I did then what I knew to do. When I knew better,I did better"_ Maya Angelou

  7. #57
    Senior Member LAPhil's Avatar
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    Re: Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittymama
    Just because someone faked the sign to make it seem real does not mean that persons supports ALIPAC, lots of people feel the same as the members here and dont know anything about this site.
    I didn't mean anything more than that; sorry if that was misleading. There are plenty of people who "feel the same" and to me, that is supportive. There are also people who will resort to violence on all sides of this issue.

    [quote:1z3xkdh5]. . .if one of us were to hold up a sign at a rally saying "We will shoot more Mexicans until they stop invading our country"? He'd be arrested in a New York second! Yet nobody does a damn thing about this guy. I guess he's just on the politically correct side.
    It doesn't take any longer to shoot a photo than it does for a sign to get the attention of law enforcement. You think every demonstrator had a cop close enough to take him down before someone could snap a pic? Physics, people, physics. It's disingenuous to say "no one did a thing about this guy" because we have no idea at this point what happened immediately after the photo was taken. What if we calmly stick to the facts and to the topic in this particular discussion, which is about the photo? That will do ALIPAC and everyone else the most good.[/quote:1z3xkdh5]
    I don't see how I was being disingenuous. My only point was that they get away with this kind of stuff whereas we couldn't even if we wanted to. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I strayed from the topic, but the topics here aren't set in stone, and sometimes we diverge a little.
    LGBTQ (Let's Get Biden To Quit)

  8. #58
    Kittymama's Avatar
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    Re: Pic looks real, "vigilante" means >1 thing

    Quote Originally Posted by LAPhil
    I don't see how I was being disingenuous.
    Here's how: You wrote "nobody does a damn thing about this guy [emphasis Kittymama's]," the first time, not "they get away with this kind of stuff [emphasis Kittymama's]," as you just did.

    I'm sorry if it bothers you that I strayed from the topic, but the topics here aren't set in stone, and sometimes we diverge a little.
    I get that, and that didn't bother me at all. But thanks for the passive-aggressive pseudo-apology.

  9. #59

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    Ohhhhhhhhhhh

    This is one of Nancy Pelosi's "heroes" and "patriots". Remember in November!
    I am a Son Of The American Revolution.

  10. #60
    Administrator ALIPAC's Avatar
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    ALIPAC is in fine shape here folks. We are doing the right thing by putting the picture out there and calling for opinions and information.

    Who knows, we might even be able to eventually locate the source and clear all of this up.

    If we had the source already and source interviews turned out to be sound, we would be asserting this picture as legitimate.

    At this time, we have fully acknowledged that this picture may be a fake and if so our goal is to tame the spread of the picture by giving people accurate information.

    This is just part of the process.

    W
    Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)

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