Another reason we do not need more guest & Visa workers!

GM will close Massena plant by by of 2008.

Northrop to Shut Circuit Board Unit, Fire 265 Workers (Update1).

Workers at Ford's Wixom plant punching out for the last time
Detroit News.

Badcock Closing Mattress Factory
The Ledger.

Best Textiles to close Mississippi tablecloth plant
FOX 10 WALA.
Manufacturing jobs erode in Midcoast
Bar Harbor Times
• Comment: "The pending closure of the former Knox Semiconductor plant in Camden continues the trend of manufacturing jobs leaving the region and being replaced by lower-paying service jobs.

Ameriwood cutting 170 jobs
Dowagiac Daily News.

Chipmakers cut costs by shipping work overseas
Idaho Statesman
• Comment: "The company employs about 23,500 people around the world, including 11,000 in Boise. Micron CEO Steve Appleton told Business Week last month that Micron would be "just fine" if it never invested another dollar or hired another employee in the United States. His comment was for a story about increasing U.S. corporate investment abroad."

House Kills Buy America For Homeland Security Procurement
Textile World• Comment: "The bill as passed by the House does require domestic production of uniforms, protective gear badges and identification cards, but Hayes said that language is merely a "good first step" as it only requires uniforms to be sewn in the United States but the fabric and yarn can come from anywhere in the world."
Liberty Textiles to close Eden plant, affect 155 jobs
FOX Carolina.

Northrop Grumman Corp., the plant's parent company in Los Angeles, announced Wednesday that it will shut down the underperforming facility by the end of July, letting go of 265 employees.
www.americaneconomicalert.com
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Guest & Visa workers are legal residents, not illegals :) You got this one wrong...this forum is against illegal immigrants, not visa holders!

Moreover, moving jobs overseas will happen whether or not visas are issued. These are slightly different things, though people try to compare them directly.

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Originally Posted by desi

Guest & Visa workers are legal residents, not illegals :) You got this one wrong...this forum is against illegal immigrants, not visa holders!

Moreover, moving jobs overseas will happen whether or not visas are issued. These are slightly different things, though people try to compare them directly.

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I know what this forum is!

Just where do you think millions of illegals, turned into citizens, are going to work if we keep losing more and more jobs.

IT Visa workers are paid $13,000 less than American IT workers!

It's about depressing our wages!

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Originally Posted by moosetracks

Just where do you think millions of illegals, turned into citizens, are going to work if we keep losing more and more jobs.

IT Visa workers are paid $13,000 less than American IT workers!

It's about depressing our wages!

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If you have ever used Google, or browsed java based websites, it was possible only because of the guest visa.

This has been debated in this thread and a lot of facts have been presented:

http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... &start=225

Yes, I am against illegal immigrants but not against legal visa holders who have to wait for years to get a guest visa or Green card. Moreover one needs a Bachelors of Masters degree in a specialized area to get a guest visa, its not as easy as you think it is.

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Hotmail, Webex, Magma, Juniper, Sun, Google, all these companies had H1-B immigrant co founders. There are at least a few hundred companies, if not thousands these "once-H1B's now green-card holders" have co-founded.

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I agree with moosetracks. Doesn't this go hand and hand with illegal immigration? I mean the proposed bill increases the guest worker/visa numbers, does it not? I harbor no ill will toward people who are here legally. I do harbor ill will toward companies and the government allowing them to bring workers here and pay them less than qualified Americans. I am sick and tired of hearing that Americans are not qualified and that is why we need to bring in guest workers.

The original intent of the H-1B program was to temporarily fill spot shortages of skilled labor. It is being used by companies to get rid of American workers and pay them less money than guest workers for doing the same job. I have read countless articles and news stories on this. We know someone this happened to-in order to get his severance he had to train his replacement who was a guest worker being paid much less.

I mean no disrespect. Again, I have no problem with ANYONE here legally. I think the guest worker/visa program should be used in cases where there is truly a need NOT because a company wants to save $$. I still believe that guest workers and visas are a legitimate part of the discussion.

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Originally Posted by desi

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Hotmail, Webex, Magma, Juniper, Sun, Google, all these companies had H1-B immigrant co founders. There are at least a few hundred companies, if not thousands these "once-H1B's now green-card holders" have co-founded.

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Moosetracks, Thanks for your post. I completely understood what you were conveying.

Desi, Good grief.....if you are going to provide highlighted comments in quotation format to "strengthen" your position, would you please acknowledge authorship and provide the SOURCE of someone's words so that we don't have to use search engines to "authenticate" your information.

Since this statement is probably not your own, I found the source for others to reference.

Your quote was found here:

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/new...ans_need_.html and was merely a blog comment to a blog entry entitled "American's Need Not Apply?.

I REALLLLY don't feel that clipping a portion of someone's blog comment to have much validity.

I believe that your quotation might have been read in a different light if the content and/or title of the blog entry was also provided. What is your agenda here? Aren't YOU the one posting in the wrong forum, Desi?

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Again, I have no problem with ANYONE here legally. I think the guest worker/visa program should be used in cases where there is truly a need NOT because a company wants to save $$.

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Agree 100%. I am against companies that misuse the visa but do realize that there is a huge number of people who actually need visas and green cards to work LEGALLY in US. There's no reason to be against them especially since they hold special skill sets.

Lynn,

What I quoted are facts. We have no option but to accept that the owner of Sun Microsystems is an Indian - Vinod Khosla. he has generated millions of jobs in America. We should give him credit for doing so. Same thing applies for Google, Juniper, et al.

I am just presenting a neutral opinion. I agree that illegals dont pay taxes and dont contribute in any way to the economy. But the visa holders work legally, pay taxes and play a big role int he US economy.

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Originally Posted by desi

What I quoted are facts. We have no option but to accept that the owner of Sun Microsystems is an Indian - Vinod Khosla. he has generated millions of jobs in America. We should give him credit for doing so. Same thing applies for Google, Juniper, et al.

I am just presenting a neutral opinion. I agree that illegals dont pay taxes and dont contribute in any way to the economy. But the visa holders work legally, pay taxes and play a big role int he US economy.

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...not really, though. Google was founded by one american born guy and one russian born guy who immigrated to the US at the age of 6. Could be wrong, but i don't think a guy who has been here since '79 would need a guest worker visa.

Might want to research your own facts in the future as people often exagerate and get stuff slightly wrong to make their point seem more valid.

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Originally Posted by thedude

Google was founded by one american born guy and one russian born guy who immigrated to the US at the age of 6. Could be wrong, but i don't think a guy who has been here since '79 would need a guest worker visa.

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So what are you trying to say? The Russian founder of Google immigrated illegally? Or that people didnt need guest visas in the 70s?

If the latter is the case then we all should be thankful to guest visas in the context that they at least help separate illegals from legals.

if you are so bent on having only Americans in USA and hate foreigners and guests, do this:

1. Let us send back all people who have guest visas, live legally here and contribute to the economy, to their home country.
2. We will then close down all companies started by immigrants.
3. Send back all blacks to Africa and Mexicans to Mexico, Chinese to China, Indians to India etc.
4. Send back the American symbol - The Statue Of Liberty to France. hell, they mustve needed a guest visa to deliver the statue of Liberty right?
5. Stop importing labor from other countries. Everything in Walmart and all electronics will then vanish as the manufacturing industry is 100% outsourced to China
6. America will then be one free nation, with no immigrants and then we can host a "World Cup" football tournament with only one country participating in it.

I am amazed to see so much hatred towards people who work here legally, pay taxes and do things for the betterment of this economy.

I am not going to post anymore about this topic...its time we all realized what loving people around the world really means. And yes I am not referring to illegals, I am referring to citizens, permanent residents and guest visa holders.

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Originally Posted by desi

Lynn,

...I am just presenting a neutral opinion...

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:lol:

How 'bout joining in with us on some letter-writing and phone-calling on the S.1348 Amnesty Bill?

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Agree 100%. I am against companies that misuse the visa but do realize that there is a huge number of people who actually need visas and green cards to work LEGALLY in US. There's no reason to be against them especially since they hold special skill sets

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I think we both agree the visa process needs to be changed. If companies did not abuse the process, do you think the number of visa holders is needed at the current level. Companies need to required to pay going rate in the US. Not bring in a foreign worker then hold his visa over their head and make them work for low wages for fear of getting sent home. Companies do it for one reason.. To depress the wages in a certain field and add to their bottom line. Cost of living going up and real wages going down = END of the middle class. Sorry to say, it seems peopl are hell bent on that.

And if they are here legally, I dont think anyone here holds any animosity towards the individual.

There are laws that are associated with the H1B visas. Those laws state that wages must be equal to the wages of native workers. There is also a time-limit on displacement (a green-card worker cannot be hired to replace a cheaper native worker within 90 days of the hire).

Yeah, right....

Desi,
Americans as a collective society do not "hate foreigners and guests", so please don't treat us as though we're bigots or hate mongers. We do, though, need to preserve our own Nation and our culture which INCLUDES our way-of-life. To sustain our way-of-life, Americans must protect our economy, not give it away. It's not a matter of being hateful, it is more an act of self-preservation.

Since research access to H-1B visa data is limited, it's difficult to estimate the H-1B population and the economic value of this workforce. Most Americans either know first-hand or through a friend or relative what being "replaced" is about.

Researchers have admitted the visa data is hard to obtain. Even the GAO has written a 46-page report on this problem. The title is “H-1B Foreign Workers: Better Tracking Needed to Help Determine H-1B Program’s Effects on U.S. Workforce.â€

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Originally Posted by desi

So what are you trying to say? The Russian founder of Google immigrated illegally? Or that people didnt need guest visas in the 70s?

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What i'm saying is he isn't here on a H1-B visa. My understanding is that that the H1-B is a visa used by those with BAs or MAs to offer their services for a finite amount of time. A 6-year-old would have neither. Then, taking into consideration that he was here long enough to get his BA and masters at stanford, he's probably here with a green card.

Your original quote infered that the founders of google were here using the H1-B visa, which is incorrect. He was here with a green card and shouldn't be in the discussion of those who are here with the H1-B.

The fact that you listed google, which is the second most visited internet site in the world, and probably more influencial, caught my attention and i was merely letting you know that you had your facts wrong.

Ok, my bad, I stand corrected that Sergey may not have had a H1B.

Lets assume he had a green card or some visa that let him stay in US. A green card is something that follows a visa. It makes a person a permanent resident. Sergey was an immigrant as he was born in Russia. After he came to US whether he had a green card or whatever visa, it doesnt matter to me. All I see is that he did something for America which few other people could do.

Similarly, thousands of students study in US universities. They all need guest visas to work here legally.

The thread title says we do not need guest visas. Without guest visas people from other countries will never get an opportunity to do something for America. I too immigrated to US as a visa holder and am now close to becoming a citizen. If there were no visas I could have never got the opportunity.

Also, I pay my taxes every year and know many "citizens" who do not. And yes, I even paid my taxes when I was not a permanent resident.

Yes, there should be check on visas to prevent illegal uses. We all agree on that. But the solution is not to STOP visas from being issued. There is still a severe shortage of talented people in America. As a recruiter in my company, I know this very well.

Well since I was pointing out just how many jobs Americans are losing, due to outsourcing, and yes, many Americans are told to teach their Visa replacements or lose their severance package.

In my opinion, this is wrong and is against all American workers!

It's all about cheap labor, if they can't ship everything overseas, then they want Visa or guest workers.

This whole process is getting out of hand, and it's hurting Americans now.

My first worry concerns my fellow American....call me a silly sentimental, but when I hear of over 3 million jobs lost here due to outsourcing, and Americans lose their homes...yes I will vote for Americans anytime!

Legal immigration is fine, but not at the expense of American workers.

I think what was meant by the title is that it would be a prudent idea to have a moratorium on ALL visas and such until we can get a handle on who is here.. and what needs to be done..

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Originally Posted by Pistov

I think what was meant by the title is that it would be a prudent idea to have a moratorium on ALL visas and such until we can get a handle on who is here.. and what needs to be done..

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Exactly! You just can't have masses of people come here, when we are losing so many jobs every week!