The current wave

America is of course not just a nation of immigrants but THE nation of immigrants.In the past we've had Irish,Italian,Jewish,German,Chinese,Southeast Asian,Central American,Mexican,Poles,Scots,different Slavic peoples,Cubans,etc.-many of whom where met with resistance and descrimination.Somehow they've manage to ride out the bad roads and now they are America.Is the current wave of Latin American arrivals alarm us more than those in the past?Is is it because of them being illegal or because of the sheer number of them?Will there ever come a time when they are America just as the immigrants of before?

Rick, I'm really not sure where this concept of "Nation of Immigrants" came from, but that really isn't an accurate description of the United States.

At one time in its early days, before all the nation was settled, we were a "Nation of Settlers". As new territories were established, people came to settle upon the territories and develop the territories. They had little incentive; no assistance; and tremendous risk of death, starvation, disease, loneliness, and more hard work than any "immigrant" today can possibly imagine.

The United States is not a Nation of Immigrants. It is a Nation of Settlers.

Look around.....we are over-settled; over-populated; under-employed; over-taxed; and the Jug is Full.

Even in the early days of our country, especially in the West, there were battles between settlers and ranchers.

Even in the early days of our country, tremendous conflicts existed among the Europeans as to the direction of the United States.

We are not a Nation of Immigrants. We are a Nation of Settlers.

There is nothing left to settle. It's been settled and developed beyond the country's capacity to sustain the Nation.

Immigration has been a problem for the past 150 years of the history of the United States. Laws were passed to regulate this problem, because it is a problem and has always been a problem. These laws are called the United States Immigration Laws.

Decades of future legal immigration has been used up by the millions of cheaters who stepped ahead of the line and entered the country illegally.

So, to answer your question, when can we return to just being a Nation of Immigrants? In my opinion, never, because we never were.

I'm a squatter .. I presume .. cuz I'm squatted daily in my chair here.

HA! :wink:

No difference in settlers and immigrants except they had more room.

Germany is a lot farther away than Mexico to come and 'settle'.

Congratulations Rickey, you're right on both counts. But your knack for redundancy and stating the obvious didn't add to your argument. Sorry, as Judy said, "the jug's full." Time to go home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom2

Congratulations Rickey, you're right on both counts. But your knack for redundancy and stating the obvious didn't add to your argument. Sorry, as Judy said, "the jug's full." Time to go home.

---

there's still some space.I was the one that said we need to post a giant no vacancies sign.However no one is answering the question at the beginning of the thread.

they're already living in our national parks.

Rick!! What is your question in this thread? Is there any time that these illegals will become American? Is that what you are asking?

In my opinion, NO.

There is a 15 year waiting list to enter the United States legally as an immigrant from Mexico.

There is no possibility that illegals will ever be able to enter the United States legally, because they cheated and tried to enter illegally.

That alone would keep them off the list as the waiting list is presently devised in accordance with legal entry into the United States.

I saw your comment that there are illegals already living in the National Parks?

What does this mean?

They are trying to "squat" on U S National Property?

That won't fly.

They'll be going home.

But it was a clever strategy on their part. Try to squat and take possession by adverse possession law. Doesn't apply to National Property, only private property.

If you're suggesting they should be granted national park land. Sorry. That's owned by legal citizens and taxpayers too. Perhaps they should consider PAYING owners for the land they live on. If they haven't the resources, it's time to go home. Forced to answer your original questions, the answer is yes and yes. They are illegal and there are too many of them. When the earliest poor, the tired, the huddled masses came, we had much land available at a bargain. They were willing to endure immigration procedures, humiliation and all, and to save their pennies to buy land, just to earn a piece of the American dream. Now the poor, the tired, the huddled masses want to sneak in from Mexico, commit a felony, pay for nothing, despoil the land and inhabited neighborhoods AND get a piece of the American dream. And then most want to send the illegal profits back to their homelands. Sorry it won't work. The American public is fed up and taking action. Time to go home.

I read an article while searching for information that this was part of the strategy of the Mexican Government to use adverse possession laws to retake the soutwest territory. In order for adverse possesion laws to apply, the property has to be private and the taker, under the jurisdiction of the United States, which of course, illegal aliens ARE NOT. They are under the jurisdiction of a foreign government invading the United States through illegal immigration.

Enough is Enough.

Vicente Fox is a Monster to promote this; underwrite it; and receive financial benefits when the money comes rolling back into Mexico from drugs; from illegal traders; from workers.

The man is a Monster created by Harvard University.

Reason enough right there to NEVER let another alien into our Colleges and Universities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tom2

If you're suggesting they should be granted national park land. Sorry. That's owned by legal citizens and taxpayers too. Perhaps they should consider PAYING owners for the land they live on. If they haven't the resources, it's time to go home. Forced to answer your original questions, the answer is yes and yes. They are illegal and there are too many of them. When the earliest poor, the tired, the huddled masses came, we had much land available at a bargain. They were willing to endure immigration procedures, humiliation and all, and to save their pennies to buy land, just to earn a piece of the American dream. Now the poor, the tired, the huddled masses want to sneak in from Mexico, commit a felony, pay for nothing, despoil the land and inhabited neighborhoods AND get a piece of the American dream. And then most want to send the illegal profits back to their homelands. Sorry it won't work. The American public is fed up and taking action. Time to go home.

---

what are you talking about?They are already living in our national parks and forests.There are spots all over that are booby trapped to keep people out of their weed growing areas.Yosemite is overran with them and their drug growing ops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judy

Rick!! What is your question in this thread? Is there any time that these illegals will become American? Is that what you are asking?

In my opinion, NO.

There is a 15 year waiting list to enter the United States legally as an immigrant from Mexico.

There is no possibility that illegals will ever be able to enter the United States legally, because they cheated and tried to enter illegally.

That alone would keep them off the list as the waiting list is presently devised in accordance with legal entry into the United States.

I saw your comment that there are illegals already living in the National Parks?

What does this mean?

They are trying to "squat" on U S National Property?

That won't fly.

They'll be going home.

But it was a clever strategy on their part. Try to squat and take possession by adverse possession law. Doesn't apply to National Property, only private property.

---

Not will they become Americans but as time goes on and their kids grow up with American kids and especially with the amount of Latin Nannies will the current atmosphere still be prevalent in 10 yrs or so.It's just a simple question;nothing to try to read into it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickesteves

No difference in settlers and immigrants except they had more room.

---

This chair is getting crowded the more I take up squatters rights in it .. refer to my post about being a squatter as I sit in this chair daily. :wink:

Squatters rights, more properly called "adverse possession" does not apply to Public lands. They may be there, but they can never take ownership over it.

Even applied to private property, adverse possession is very difficult to acquire. The legal requirements for adverse possession are that the settlement of that land must be Open, Notorious, Hostile, and Continuous... for 11 years. This means that your presence there must be continuous, and that the owner as well as general public must be aware of your occupation of that land, and it must be without the permission of the owner. Further, it must be demonstrated that you paid the taxes upon that land for the 11 year period. Any owner whose land is being taken in this manner can bring it to a halt simply by stating he gave them permission to be there.

Also, adverse possession in most states is 20 years. The term depends on the state. The important point concerning National Park Land is that it is federal National Property and is not under the jurisdiction of the laws of a state whereas all adverse possession claims are state issues.

This is however one of the strategies of Vicente Fox and Henry Cisneros from speeches they made at these La Raza conventions. I didn't post it because I didn't want to give anyone any ideas!

We've got a big enough job on our hands as it is.

In answer to the original questions and postulations. The settlers came here, into a land with vast wilderness and expanding boundaries. While this was occuring, we could tolerate much more immigration... now we are simply cutting the pie into smaller and smaller pieces for everyone.

Further, immigrants of the past came here and worked hard to assimilate, learning the language being one of their first goals. With few exceptions, they had no interest in preserving their cultural heritage beyond taking only those things which were good, and discarding that which was less useful. This was the principle of the melting pot. Todays illegal immigrants have no intention of assimilating. They immediately set out to change the areas they reside in into copies of their homeland, which is assinine, since if the culture they are trying to preserve was so great, they would have had no reason to leave it. Whether they be legal or illegal immigrants... so long as they maintain their seperate cultural identity, they will never be Americans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Judy

Also, adverse possession in most states is 20 years. The term depends on the state. The important point concerning National Park Land is that it is federal National Property and is not under the jurisdiction of the laws of a state whereas all adverse possession claims are state issues.

This is however one of the strategies of Vicente Fox and Henry Cisneros from speeches they made at these La Raza conventions. I didn't post it because I didn't want to give anyone any ideas!

We've got a big enough job on our hands as it is.

---

State property is not subject to advese possession either. All land title originates from Patents issued by these sovereign bodies. Adverse possession, which is defined by the sovereign, cannot be claimed against the sovereign.

What is happening is that our Parks are being destroyed by their lack of appreciation and respect of the land. They're making them resemble little Mexicos by throwing their garbage, no toilets guys, fires are easily started, threatening tourists and residents, etc.

That in itself should be stopped but it seems that the Parks commission is only interested in fining Americans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

What is happening is that our Parks are being destroyed by their lack of appreciation and respect of the land. They're making them resemble little Mexicos by throwing their garbage, no toilets guys, fires are easily started, threatening tourists and residents, etc.

That in itself should be stopped but it seems that the Parks commission is only interested in fining Americans.

---

I am in complete agreement

keep in mind the un-suspecting family that stumbles across them or their boobytraps.The danger of a Park Ranger's job now.And the poaching that goes along with staying near the base.

The National Park Rangers only had 7 guys for this huge park...the Cactus Park.

So, they decided to take videos and gave them to 60 minutes. They ran the story....caused alot of public reaction....soon after that the Minutemen were down there.

I'll bet Yogi and BooBoo decided to wear their flackjackets too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickesteves

I'll bet Yogi and BooBoo decided to wear their flackjackets too.

---

Exactly who are you implying that Yogi and booboo had to wear flakjackets to protect themselves from?

Man,here we go-the illegals!

did they need them before the illegals came (except during hunting season)?

Thank you for the clarification

de nada

Glad to see yall arent serious all of the time.

Here's a little tangent I thought of while reading this thread...

The state parks in Texas are literally overcrowded! How is that even possible, I wonder? My family lived in San Antonio for 2 years and went to parks all over the Hill Country. It never ceased to amaze me HOW different a day of supposed "relaxation" was for my family as opposed to the immigrant families. Unfortunately, we frequently had to leave parks out of sheer disgust!

I've seen an immigrant woman change her child's dirty diaper, wad it up, and throw it on the ground.

I've seen little boys pee on the ground wherever they happened to be standing, or into the river regardless of the swimmers close by.

I've seen overflowing trash canisters knocked over by rowdy immigrant teens who then kick garbage everywhere until it's blowing wildly across the park.

I've see a drunk immigrant passed out on the ground with his pants zipper open.

I've seen hordes of children throw rocks at our dog, for fun and games.

I've seen one family group of 30 or more immigrants sprawl across an entire picnic area, utilizing all space for themselves, and then leave it filthy and trashed when they leave - garbage everywhere, spilled food, encroaching bugs. We ended up eating our picnic in the bed of our pick-up.

We had to leave a park in the middle of a camping trip because the volume of noise was overpowering. One can take only so much ceaseless din, punctuated by sonic blasts of Mexican folk music, for so long. :(

Our all-time favorite family activity has ceased just out of sheer disappointemnt (and fury, on my part) that we cannot even enjoy our own American parklands.

Sorry, but I had to vent. I'm still bitter about it...

And is there any wonder why we don't want them here?

One of the first things I noticed about the illegals when the first started coming here in droves is how badly their kids behave.All the Latins I grew up with that were born and raised here did not spare the rod.Some of my friends used to get whippins out in the street if the got out of line.Now I've actually had to take the liberty a few times and tell some of these people to "get your brat".Just imagine how the teenagers are going to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickesteves

One of the first things I noticed about the illegals when the first started coming here in droves is how badly their kids behave.All the Latins I grew up with that were born and raised here did not spare the rod.Some of my friends used to get whippins out in the street if the got out of line.Now I've actually had to take the liberty a few times and tell some of these people to "get your brat".Just imagine how the teenagers are going to be.

---

On that I gotta agree. I grew up in western Kansas, and we had a very large population of hispanic people in Garden City. While some of the kids were pretty ornery, as any kids can be, their parents were all pretty strict, decent, god-fearing people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DonQuixote

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rickesteves

One of the first things I noticed about the illegals when the first started coming here in droves is how badly their kids behave.All the Latins I grew up with that were born and raised here did not spare the rod.Some of my friends used to get whippins out in the street if the got out of line.Now I've actually had to take the liberty a few times and tell some of these people to "get your brat".Just imagine how the teenagers are going to be.

---

On that I gotta agree. I grew up in western Kansas, and we had a very large population of hispanic people in Garden City. While some of the kids were pretty ornery, as any kids can be, their parents were all pretty strict, decent, god-fearing people.

---

In California now you cannot touch your kid-it's a felony (one reason we have so many youthful killers).But if it were retroactive,the Latin prison population would quadruple.Belts,switches,backhands,hotwheels track (I remember this one from 36 years ago),shoes,wooden spoons,and older siblings were the order of the day that kept order.

:lol: This is the Italian "weapon of choice" LOL
wooden spoons