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Thread: Factchecker: Donald Trump supports eminent domain

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  1. #21
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    I personally find this disturbing because in many cases the owners don't get "a lot of money" they get what the government says that they should have. No candidate will hit all of the issues in way that everyone agrees with. I agree with Trump on illegal immigration and trade which are both big items to me.
    TRUMP: EMINENT DOMAIN, EVEN FOR PRIVATE PROJECTS IS ‘WONDERFUL THING,’ ‘YOU’RE NOT TAKING PROPERTY’

    by IAN HANCHETT6 Oct 2015780

    Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump argued that eminent domain, including for private projects that “employ thousands of people” is “a wonderful thing” in an interview broadcast on Tuesday’s “Special Report” on the Fox News Channel.

    Trump stated, “I think eminent domain is wonderful, if you’re building a highway, and you need to build, as an example, a highway, and you’re going to be blocked by a hold-out, or, in some cases, it’s a hold-out, just so you understand, nobody knows this better than I do, because I built a lot of buildings in Manhattan, and you’ll have 12 sites and you’ll get 11 and you’ll have the one hold-out and you end up building around them and everything else, okay? So, I know it better than anybody. I think eminent domain for massive projects, for instance, you’re going to create thousands of jobs, and you have somebody that’s in the way, and you pay that person far more — don’t forget, eminent domain, they get a lot of money, and you need a house in a certain location, because you’re going to build this massive development that’s going to employ thousands of people, or you’re going to build a factory, that without this little house, you can’t build the factory. I think eminent domain is fine.”

    Trump was then asked for his past support for the Supreme Court’s ruling on eminent domain in Kelo v. New London, he stated, “Eminent domain — number one, a person has a house, and they end up getting much more than the house is ever worth. You know, eminent domain is not like you — they take your house.”

    He added, “if you have a road or highway, you gotta do it. If you have a factory where you have thousands of jobs, and you need eminent domain, it’s called economic development.”

    When asked about criticism of the Kelo ruling by Democratic presidential candidate Senator Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
    , Trump argued, “the way they talk, people would say oh, it’s turned over. It’s turned over for four, five, six, ten times sometimes what it’s worth. People pay them a fortune. But sometimes you have people that want to hold out just for the — most of the time, I will say, I’ve done a lot of outparcels, I call them outparcels. Most of the time, they just want money, okay? It’s very rarely that they say ‘I love my house. I love my house. It’s the greatest thing there.’ Because these people can go buy a house now that’s five times bigger, in a better location, so eminent domain, when it comes to jobs, roads, the public good, I think it’s a wonderful thing, I’ll be honest with you, and remember, you’re not taking property, you know, the way you asked the question, the way other people — you’re paying a fortune for that property. Those people can move two blocks away into a much nicer house.”Trump concluded, “I think it’s a great subject. It’s a very interesting subject. I fully understand the conservative approach. But I don’t think it was explained to most conservatives.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/...king-property/

    Last edited by Newmexican; 10-06-2015 at 09:38 PM.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Yes, we know about that one. I'm talking about another one. Do you know of another one? The point is that far more properties are taken by tax laws than eminent domain laws. Lists and lists of them every week in your newspapers. So where is the outcry about the ones taken by the tyranny of tax laws without compensation? Did the Founders and the Bill of Rights intend for that? Certainly not on the federal level. What states and local communities do is really up to them and you, isn't it? It was the local community of New London, CT who did this to these people, not the federal government, not even the US Supreme Court, it was the local town. the same types of towns that foreclose on homeowners with delinquent property taxes because they've risen so high they can't afford them, or they lost their job and with the higher taxes can't pay them. Where are their property rights? Government wasting money on illegal aliens, raising property taxes to pay for it, homeowners can't pay them, government forecloses on the homes and sells them for cheap to durg running illegal aliens. Where is the outcry?

    If Donald Trump has used that mechanism to buy a property, you can be assured of a big beautiful development on it. What Pfizer and the town did in New London is despicable with or without eminent domain, with or without the Kelo Decision, and is actually the perpetuation of a fraud. I wonder if there chemical emissions from the plant, that's why they wanted the people gone and they planned this development ruse to get them away from the plant?

    Something far more sinister than a company "health club" was involved in this for Pfizer to want the town to take it alll the way to the US Supreme Court.
    Last edited by Judy; 10-06-2015 at 10:39 PM.
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  3. #23
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    I think that what we should be looking at is what the candidate's position on these issues, not the issue itself, and deciding if the issue is a make or break for our vote. It is a personal decision.

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    They'll take your land to run a dangerous oil pipeline thru or to run LNG thru to EXPORT and make money for greedy, reckless corporations.

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    Dumping on New Hill

    How an enormous wastewater treatment plant wound up near a small town's historic district

    By Rebekah L. Cowell



    • MAP BY J.P. TROSTLE



    Inside the sanctuary of the 100-year-old New Hill First Baptist Church, the plush red carpet is so smooth you can see the tracks of the vacuum cleaner that ran across the floor the day before. Sun shines through stained-glass windows where families and friends join hands across oak pews. A youth choir sings accompanied by piano and snare drum. Pastor James Clanton opens with a call to worship and asks his congregation to be thankful. "God is good. He is so good." The congregation responds, "Yes, Jesus, yes."

    Within the next few months, the church will get a new neighbor, one New Hill residents are not thankful for: a $327 million wastewater treatment plant across the street.

    Two weeks ago, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers announced that Site 14—237 acres of farmland adjacent to the New Hill Historic District—is the best place to put the behemoth plant. Six years ago, Western Wake Partners, an alliance of Cary, Apex, Morrisville and Holly Springs, which are predominantly white, decided New Hill, which is primarily African-American, is the ideal place to build a smelly, loud and ugly wastewater treatment plant.

    Three other alternatives, including one on land owned by Progress Energy, would have been more remote and affected fewer people. But the people of New Hill have less clout than Progress Energy. The partners have largely dismissed New Hill residents' concerns over the site of the plant. "... seems to me New Hill is a ZIP code, not a community," wrote Cary Public Works Director Robert (Kim) Fisher in a July 2005 e-mail to water resources manager Leila Goodwin.

    Yes, New Hill does have a ZIP code—27562—but it is also a small town on the fringes of western Wake County and home to about 1,800 people (all on septic systems because there has never been water or sewer service), a brick post office, a gas station, Victorian farmhouses with picket fences, large tracts of farmland and iron tracks that run along Old U.S. Highway 1—the original New Hope Valley Railway and transportation route for the tobacco harvested by New Hill farmers.

    Unincorporated, the town has no agreed-upon boundaries. And because New Hill is small and quiet, it has become a target for developments that few towns would want—or be forced to accept.

    T
    he state is requiring the partners to build a new wastewater treatment plant to handle the increasing load from their growing populations.

    But the new wastewater treatment plant, which is scheduled to begin construction this year, will not be built in Apex or Cary or any of the partners' towns. It will loom across the street from the New Hill First Baptist Church and playground, and a half-mile from the First Baptist Church of New Hill. The plant will sit within 1,000 feet of 23 homes. But who lives in those homes is as important: 87 percent of those approximately 230 residents immediately affected by the sewage treatment plant are African-American, on fixed incomes, elderly or retired.

    "People here don't just move around," said Elaine Joyner, a lifelong resident who grew up in a house behind First Baptist Church. "They buy a house, raise their kids and settle down, and that's the one house they'll own for the rest of their lives."

    Joyner says even if the plant generates new jobs, it won't help the retirees or the residents whose quality of life will be permanently damaged. "No one wants to sit on their porch and hear the sounds, or the smells, that will come from a wastewater treatment plant, nor deal with an increase of traffic," Joyner said.

    It's not only the light pollution, smell, noise and traffic that could sour New Hill's peaceful atmosphere—the risk of a sewage spill or leak could threaten the community's environment and public health.

    "If a sewage spill occurs on the selected site in New Hill, or on one of the many sewage lines running through the New Hill community, it will be catastrophic as every residence in New Hill, and the surrounding community, is serviced by a private well," the association wrote in 2006. "Also, in the rural community of New Hill, there are many farms that utilize farm ponds for drinking water for livestock and irrigation ... Even a small hole in a large sewage line ... will contaminate a lot of land and ponds prior to the leak being discovered and repaired."

    This is just the latest insult to New Hill, parts of which have been eaten away by eminent domain. Just two miles outside of town brews Shearon Harris. Construction of Progress Energy's nuclear power plant devoured significant tobacco and agricultural farmland, as did the build-out of U.S. 1, as did the flooding of fields by the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers in 1973 to create Jordan Lake, as did the easements for Dixie Pipeline's underground high-pressure gas lines, as did easements for Progress Energy's transmission lines that will support Cary and Apex growth, not New Hill.

    Nonetheless, as part of an environmental review for the wastewater treatment plant, the partners claimed New Hill residents have not been environmentally affected in the past.

    For five years, the New Hill Community Association, a citizens group of black and white residents, have battled the partners and the plant. "Initially we requested the sewage plant not be placed in our community because we have had enough impacts," association members said at a 2008 community meeting with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and the Environmental Protection Agency. "When our plea was rejected, we then requested the partners move the sewage plant out of the center of our community, where it will impact our churches, cemeteries, playgrounds and, most of all, the people who live in close proximity to the site."

    Throughout the U.S., including North Carolina, landfills, hazardous waste sites and other environmental threats or nuisances have historically been sited near low-income or minority communities. The treatment plant is another example of that practice, says the Rev. Robert Campbell, leader of the Faith Tabernacle Oasis of Love Church of Chapel Hill and a member of the Coalition to End Environmental Racism. "In my opinion [this is] another underserved community of color [that] is the target of a larger municipality, that will make promises and not keep them."


    Ironically, the Western Wake Partners originally posted on its website a strong statement in favor of protecting the neighbors in situating the plant: "The proposed facility must be located on a site that protects citizens' quality of life. This means keeping the facility footprint as far away as possible from homes, parks, churches, playgrounds, and other areas important to citizens. The residences directly affected by a location as well as those nearby are taken into account," the posting read.

    That statement has since been removed from the partners' website.

    The Town of Cary has led the charge for the new plant and its siting in New Hill. However, one council member did raise a question about the appropriateness of the location. In response to a question raised by a New Hill resident, in 2005, Cary Town Council member Jennifer Robinson sent an e-mail expressing her concern about New Hill as the preferred site for the plant. "Historical or societal issues were not considered when the site selection process was undertaken ... I was disappointed when I learned that the preferred site impacted the community as it does."

    There were alternatives to Site 14, known as the old Seymour farm, which sits in the center of New Hill. In August 2004, the partners' environmental engineers and consultants ranked 29 potential locations for the plant, then whittled that list to 12. Site 14 ranked fourth, and the top three locations are owned by Progress Energy. The plant needed 140 to 180 acres; Progress Energy has 15,000—land it took from New Hill citizens in the '60s and '70s in anticipation of building four nuclear reactors (only one was built—by Shearon Harris).

    In June 2005, Cary Town Manager William Coleman sent an e-mail to the partners, stating: "We had a meeting with Progress Energy today. The gist of the meeting was that Progress Energy does not want the wastewater plant on their site even if it could work economically. If Progress Energy does develop they will need a wastewater treatment plant to discharge their effluent too."

    The state's water regulations require the partners that withdraw water from the Cape Fear River Basin, to return it there, too. In the case of the plant, treated wastewater would be pumped back into the river, meeting that requirement.

    But locating the plant on Progress Energy property and then pumping discharge into Harris Lake, which is on the energy company's land, would have also satisfied that requirement. The final environmental impact statement lays out the many benefits of siting a plant on that property and discharging into the lake: "This option results in shorter effluent line, less pumping, and fewer greenhouse gas emissions from the pumping" as well as "greater flexibility in managing water resources on a regional basis as the water would be stored in the lake."

    New Hill residents speculate Harris Lake wasn't considered because clearing regulatory hurdles would have delayed the project, which must be completed by 2013, by three years. However, that is an unnecessary delay. The partners didn't even analyze the possibility of Harris Lake until earlier this year. Had they done it in 2005, New Hill could have been spared, and the plant could have been built on schedule. "In short, they considered Harris Lake too late," said Chris Brook, an attorney with the Southern Coalition for Social Justice, "and now they are just walking away from it."

    C
    ary led the partners to the New Hill site, and it could lead them out of it. However, Cary remains entrenched in the plan, largely because of the additional time and moneyseveral million dollarsrequired to change it. (Cary bears most of the project costsnearly 60 percent. Holly Springs is on the hook for 5.3 percent, Apex 26.7 percent and Morrisville 8.4 percent.)

    The partners had already selected New Hill when Harold Weinbrecht became the mayor of Cary. Nonetheless, he told the Indy that considering the timing and financial constraints, "I had no choice but to conclude that changing sites would not be in the best interest of the citizens of Cary."

    The best interests of New Hill have been consistently excluded. In November 2004, Cary Public Information Officer Susan Moran sent an e-mail to Sharon Brown, a Wake County PIO, stating "the partners have agreed we want to avoid publicity as long as possible."

    A month later, Holly Springs Town Manager Carl Dean pondered in an e-mail how to circumvent the public process: "We need to develop a method to handle these utility projects without the public hearing requirement."

    Holly Springs now wants out of the deal. The town is seeking state permission to send more of its treated wastewater to, of all places, Harris Lake. The town had never planned to use the plant itself, but to use a pipe from the outside of the plant that would discharge to the Cape Fear River. If the state approves, Holly Springs will withdraw from the partnership and do just that, according to Holly Springs Mayor Dick Sears.

    Apex Town Commissioner Bill Jensen said he has tried unsuccessfully to convince his fellow elected officials to move the site. "They are locked in at this point," he said.

    In fact, Apex Town commissioners never voted on the site; staff members from the town's public works department decided on the site without commissioner input, according to minutes from a 2005 commission meeting.

    Instead, Apex Mayor Keith Weatherly asked the town manager to send a letter to Cary approving of the Site 14. "We were misguided by our own town council," Jensen said, "and in my person opinion, Site 14 was just shoveled through."

    Weatherly did not return calls seeking comment.

    Morrisville Mayor Jackie Holcombe says she would support an alternative site in New Hill. "As far back as 2005 I had concerns about the site-selection process and the effect a Site 14 wastewater plant would have on our neighbors in New Hill," she said. Nevertheless, Holcombe is not concerned enough to withdraw from the partnership. "The partnership's need for an additional regional treatment plant is valid and meets current state policies of addressing water and sewer needs regionally," she said.

    B
    ob Kelly, whose grandmother was born in New Hill in 1887, has lived on the family farm for 40 years. Retired from IBM, he has converted the tobacco farm into a tree farm. Like many New Hill residents, he has seen farmland eroded by progress. While the partners have seized hundreds of acres for this project, through eminent domain, they will need even more land for other plant infrastructure.

    (Landowners are compensated for their losses in eminent domain cases, but the price offered for the acreage rarely, if ever, is at market rates. Landowners have to challenge the offer—and win, which is rare. The partners originally offered the Seymour family less than $3 million for 237 acres; the family successfully challenged the amount, and the partners paid $7.5 million—150 percent more than the original paltry offer.)

    "We are being asked to give up more land for sewage pipelines. Those of us who will have the sewage lines crossing our property will not be able to connect to the facility—we just have the pleasure of losing our land," Kelly said.

    That's one of the many ironies in the New Hill case. All of the residents are on septic. Because the land isn't suitable for additional septic systems, no new homes or businesses can be built in New Hill unless they are on a public water and sewer system.

    As part of the deal with New Hill, the partners would hook up some residents within a half-mile radius of the plant to the Apex public system. However, there's a catch. According to a July 30 letter to New Hill residents, the partners are suggesting that the residents front the money for the hookups. The Town of Apex would reimburse the residents for all "reasonable costs," the letter says, but it does not list a time frame or define "reasonable."

    The word "reasonable" is key. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers documents, known as the Record of Decision, state that the partners will provide "free installation of water and sewer up to a cost of $1,500 for water and $1,500 for sewer for each residence."

    Yet many New Hill residents don't have $3,000 for the up-front costs. And, according to Brook, it's uncertain that the $3,000 subsidy would cover all the costs, especially for homes that are farther off the road and would need additional piping.

    "The Record of Decision continually speaks of reimbursing folks for water and sewer hookup expenses," Brook said. "A lot of folks in this community just don't have $3,000, or however much it actually takes them to get connected, sitting around to spend on water and sewer hookup and then wait until Apex gets around to reimbursing them."

    And if the pipes need to be replaced, the documents state, "costs associated with replacing existing deteriorated pipe are the responsibility of the property owner."

    If construction stays on schedule, the plant will be complete in 2013. In the meantime, residents hope the partners will agree to several amenities for the community. In May, Brook sent a proposal to the partners' attorney, Glenn Dunn, asking for several concessions that would benefit New Hill residents: pay all costs (not merely those deemed "reasonable") of water and sewage connections for residents and expand the number of households eligible for those hookups to those within a half-mile of the treatment plant boundaries.

    Brook requested that the partners pay New Hill property owners "fair compensation for easements" required for the plant. Other concessions include alerts for the community within 12 hours of sewage spills or leaks, construction of a community center or the renovation of a building in the New Hill Historic District, and a guarantee that at least 10 New Hill residents be employed at the plant.

    These proposals are not intended to endorse the plant's construction, Brook said, but they are necessary to ensure that the community's needs are known. "We're not going to stop fighting it, but if they are going to do this, here are some things they need to do," Brook said.

    For Bob Kelly and the association, the battle has had its upside. "One of the good things to come out of this ordeal is the community has come together," Kelly said. "All races have come together for a common cause. Even though I knew many of the people in the community, I did not really know them. I had not worked side by side with them and had not sat down in their homes and discussed things."

    Back at the New Hill First Baptist Church, a sign with the acronym P.U.S.H. hangs in the annex. The message is simple: "Pray Until Something Happens," and until something happens, New Hill plans to do just that. This is the place they call home, and it is worth the fight.

    Correction (Aug. 12, 2010):
    The print version of this map transposed the locations of the New Hill Baptist Church and the First Baptist Church of New Hill.


    http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/dum...nt?oid=1593974

    I'm intimately familiar with this specific case because the Seymour farm is just five miles from my home. The family, who had owned the property for around 150 years, did not want to sell at any price. This was a farm, it was not blighted nor were there any outstanding taxes owed. Furthermore, as you can see there were other options for locating the plant but the local government that took the land persisted only because it was convenient for them. I would call taken a farm that has been family owned for 150 years is eminent domain abuse, especially when there were other alternatives.







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  6. #26
    MW
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    Judy wrote:

    Yes, we know about that one. I'm talking about another one. Do you know of another one? The point is that far more properties are taken by tax laws than eminent domain laws.
    You're kidding, right? There are tons of properties taken by eminent domain laws. Oh, and land taken for unpaid taxes was never the issue.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newmexican View Post
    I think that what we should be looking at is what the candidate's position on these issues, not the issue itself, and deciding if the issue is a make or break for our vote. It is a personal decision.
    You're right, Newmexican, folks have to make their own decision based on the whole-man concept and what's most important to them. I think it has been made abundantly clear where Trump stands on the issue of eminent domain. He supports it fully, even for "private projects." Okay, case closed. I'm ready to move on.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    You're kidding, right? There are tons of properties taken by eminent domain laws. Oh, and land taken for unpaid taxes was never the issue.
    I just asked you to name one, besudes the one in the Kelo Case. The issue is "taking", whether it's under a Constitutional right of eminent domain provided for in the US Constitution or through the police power of taxation which isn't. I'm making the issue of the tax tyranny which you seem to have no problem with.

    Far more properties are taken without compensation through a tax foreclosure than eminent domain which includes a due process of law and fair market compensation, whereas tax foreclosures are police power takings with no fair market compensation at all.

    Where is the outcry?! Why aren't properties stolen for unpaid taxes an issue with "conservatives"? Why aren't the people so upset about the Kelo Case which guarantees compensation even more upset about the taking of properties for unpaid taxes without compensation?

    And no, I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious.
    Last edited by Judy; 10-06-2015 at 10:51 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    You're right, Newmexican, folks have to make their own decision based on the whole-man concept and what's most important to them. I think it has been made abundantly clear where Trump stands on the issue of eminent domain. He supports it fully, even for "private projects." Okay, case closed. I'm ready to move on.

    No, the case is not closed. Trump supports the issue of eminent domain for private projects WHEN THERE IS a public benefit and good purpose. He would never support what happened to the properties in the Kelo Case. He would have already called his lawyers and told them to sue the town and Pfizer for fraud.
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    I have had the street in front of my house "taken". Our unprecedented regional government desingated a long recreational trail, but sent about 3/4 of a mile of it through our neighborhood and right in front of my house. Not so bad? No, there are scores of traffic law violators, people jogging down the middle of the street, heated confrontations between autos and trail users, traveling thieves and ne-er do wells, homeless capers coming buy, things stolen off the front porch. I can't leave anything in front or it's gone.. Then whenever I pull out of the driveway I have to go forward and do a thorough check to see that there is not some fool--idiot going down the street. Total pain in the a--.
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