Thread: I AM AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT...

When talking about entering illegally


Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or

Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or

Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;
has committed a federal crime.

Violations are punishable by criminal fines and imprisonment for up to six months. Repeat offenses can bring up to two years in prison. Additional civil fines may be imposed at the discretion of immigration judges, but civil fines do not negate the criminal sanctions or nature of the offense.

Main Entry: fel·o·ny
Pronunciation: 'fe-l&-nE
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural -nies
: a crime that has a greater punishment imposed by statute than that imposed on a misdemeanor; specifically : a federal crime for which the punishment may be death or imprisonment for more than a year

Citizenship and the children of immigrants
The provisions in Section 1 ensure that children born on United States soil, with a very small number of exceptions, are U.S. citizens. This type of guarantee—legally termed "jus soli", or "right of the territory"— does not exist in most of Western Europe, although it is part of English common law and is common in the Americas.

The phrase "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" indicates that there are some exceptions to the universal rule that birth on U.S. soil automatically grants citizenship. The Supreme Court precedent set by the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark interprets the exception narrowly to cover only the following:

Children born to foreign diplomats
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States
Native Americans born on tribal lands
Under this interpretation, the U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants and tourists are automatically U.S. citizens. Some legislators, reacting to illegal immigration, have proposed that this be changed, either through legislation or a constitutional amendment. The proposed changes are usually one of the following.

And finally, the consequences illegal immigrants should face for violating the "law of the land" is what is being debated.

Originally Posted by hak51

CrocketsGhost

You say:

While you pretend that the issue is strictly a matter of a labor void being filled, I have correctly pointed out that many immigrants do not come here for the work, but rather for the BENEFITS. whether they are employed or not, they can receive welfare, foodstamps, etc. Heck, for many of them, living under an overpass in an American city is better than living in the corrugated metal shacks they currently live in.

First, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps or welfare, and they never should.

That's a damned lie and you KNOW IT. Is this what it's come to, little boy? Your arguments are so badly dismantled that you have to resort to blatant prevarication?

Originally Posted by hak51

Second, I doubt that underpass in U.S. is better then it is anywhere else.

It is when there are government bennies and free health care to go along with it!

Originally Posted by hak51

Finally, if the law is reasonable, it is likely strictly enforced as it goes along with the basic economic interest of most parties involved. If it would be simple to come and work here legally, people of honest intention would follow the law. People of criminal intentions, would not. There would be no more excuses that people of honest intentions got caught in the system.

FALSE! The interests of big business and the interests of the common citizenry are at odds more frequently than not. Big government tends to do the bidding of big business, or have you missed all of the various ethics investigations and the entanglements of elected officials with companies like Enron?

Your claim that "people of honest intention would follow the law" is also ludicrous. Honest people DO FOLLOW THE LAW. They're not the problem. It's the lawbreaking illegal aliens who are the problem. They are, by definition, NOT honest law-abiding citizens. They aren't citizens at all. They are foreign invaders taking things (like health care and food stamps) that are not theirs.

My, but you are thick-headed!

Originally Posted by hak51

CrocketsGhost
You say

Well, are we to have control over who comes here or not? If so, then when the market for minimum wage unskilled labor dries up, the minimum wage unskilled laborers will be stopped at the border. Is this correct or not? (Of course it is!) Those are also the very sort of people who have the highest interest in obtaining free services available here in America, WHETHER THEY HAVE JOBS HERE OR NOT. Understand? (That is not a rhetorical question. I want you to acknowledge that you understand this elementary point before proceeding with any more of your nonsense!)

It appears to me that this part is important in your reasoning. Sorry for my limited intelligence, but I cannot figure out what you are talking about in this paragraph.

TROLL ALERT!

The most sure sign of a troll is that he will feign ignorance when faced with incontrovertible logic.

You have no argument for this inescapable reality, so you play the "no comprende" gambit. PATHETIC, little man. PATHETIC!

Originally Posted by CheyenneWoman

Originally Posted by hak51

CrocketsGhost

You say:

While you pretend that the issue is strictly a matter of a labor void being filled, I have correctly pointed out that many immigrants do not come here for the work, but rather for the BENEFITS. whether they are employed or not, they can receive welfare, foodstamps, etc. Heck, for many of them, living under an overpass in an American city is better than living in the corrugated metal shacks they currently live in.

First, illegal immigrants do not get food stamps or welfare, and they never should. Second, I doubt that underpass in U.S. is better then it is anywhere else. Finally, if the law is reasonable, it is likely strictly enforced as it goes along with the basic economic interest of most parties involved. If it would be simple to come and work here legally, people of honest intention would follow the law. People of criminal intentions, would not. There would be no more excuses that people of honest intentions got caught in the system.

Hak, what are you smoking? I want some!!

I have several friends who work in social services down the hill in Denver. I have been told innumerable times about the food stamps, medical, and many other benefits received by illegals, because the system here is so overwhelmed by requests - there is not accurate way to determine everyones legal status.

Besides, Cheyenne, many states (California comes to mind) SPECIFICALLY PROHIBIT services providers from asking one's citizenship status and/or EXPLICITLY provide services to illegals. Health care is a prime example. NO emergency room may turn away an emergency patient for any reason.

Crocketsghost, I have read up on the subject, but do not believe it. It is interesting in light of prophecy, and how things will play out, it will most likely be used in making claims to the "Throne of David".

Some others use it to make the claim of a manifest destiny of sorts for certain races within the U.S., still like I said, I do not believe it, it is flawed thinking and one assuming to know Providence. Kinda like reading "DaVinci Code"!!

CrocketsGhost

You:

Do we not begin turning away those for whom we have no work? If so, what keeps them from resuming their illegal immigration? As I have pointed out, there are plenty of goodies over here other than work which attract them.

There are no goodies given away here and never should. People who would not be able to find work here would go back home. With reasonable guest work laws, every legal immigrant would have an ID card. Only losers, desperado and plain criminals would try to stay. They would be easier to spot and deport. And, most of all, there would be not sympathy for their cause anywhere.

If we do not turn them away, yet we have no work for them, do they not end up burdening us on our welfare rolls and using up precious resources set aside for actual Americans? Do we raise taxes to pay for them, thereby placing the brakes on a fragile economy and resulting in even less available jobs?

You put things upside down. Let us keep guarding our borders as we do it now. So we would know that there would be no more illegals coming than up to now. Then, let us make immigration laws reasonable, that a foreign worker finding employment could come here legally. How many of those how now risk their lives storming the border, would prefer to sign with the employment agency and wait at home a year or might be even more for the legal job opening?

These are all questions you have not either asked or answered. As a matter of fact, you have steadfastly dodged and refused to confront these questions. THAT is why I believe that you are a propagandist or a troll and THAT is why I continue to call your tripe "insensible."

It is quite opposite. You steadfastly refuse to acknowledge my straightforward answers to your questions. I will withhold my opinion what I think about your motivations in this regards.

Ghost, what are you getting so worked up about anyways? Again, as always said, point out something that is incorrect. C'mon!! Correct me!! I want to learn!! And why am I a troll? Have I broken any rules? Once again, point them out so that I can learn.

Chicano: Sorry it took me so long to respond - I am getting tired and I had to check the board where all of this was already posted.

Employer Sanctions
Violations of the Act's employment provisions may result in injunctions, civil, or criminal penalties. An employer found to have knowingly hired an unauthorized alien may be ordered to pay a civil fine for each unauthorized alien ranging from $250 to $10,000 depending on the number of previous violations.

Civil money penalties may also be issued for mere paperwork violations. Employers who fail to comply with the employment verification requirements of the Act will be subject to a civil penalty of between $100 and $1,000 for each violation.

Criminal penalties and injunctions may be issued where a pattern or practice of violations has occurred. The criminal penalties may include a fine of not more than $3,000 for each unauthorized alien, imprisonment for not more than six months, or both.

First, it is a severe fine for the employer.

Second:

The 14th Amendment, ratified in 1868 to guarantee the rights of emancipated slaves, states "All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside."

Though the 14th Amendment was enacted specifically to ensure that emancipated slaves were accepted as citizens, it has been the law for nearly 140 years. In that time, any child born on U.S. soil, even to an illegal immigrant, has been given American citizenship.

Conservatives in Congress see that as a problem, and are determined to change the process. Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colorado) is chair of the 92 member House Immigration Reform Caucus, which is attempting to force a vote on legislation that would revoke “birthright citizenship,” putting an end to the common designation “anchor babies.”

Conservative activists and academics support the change, but it would cause problems for the Bush White House, which has been courting Hispanic voters. The administration and Republican party officials fear that the very discussion of such an effort will alienate the key constituency they have been pursuing for years.

Some lawmakers contend that the amendment has been misinterpreted for decades, insisting that although illegal immigrants are subject to criminal prosecution and are expected to abide by U.S. laws and regulations, they are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States in the full sense intended by the amendment's authors — and therefore their children fall outside the scope of its protection and opportunities.

Those who want to change the policy note that the United States is one of few major industrialized nations that grant birthright citizenship with no qualifications.

And from this thread: http://www.alipac.us/modules.php?name=F ... c&start=75

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens

It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.

An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.

The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.

Enforcement

A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.

State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.

RICO -- Citizen Recourse

Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.

Tax Crimes

Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In additon to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

Now, I'm going to bed cause it's late and I've been up since 6:30 am.

Originally Posted by AmericanElizabeth

Crocketsghost, I have read up on the subject, but do not believe it. It is interesting in light of prophecy, and how things will play out, it will most likely be used in making claims to the "Throne of David".

Some others use it to make the claim of a manifest destiny of sorts for certain races within the U.S., still like I said, I do not believe it, it is flawed thinking and one assuming to know Providence. Kinda like reading "DaVinci Code"!!

AE, the throne of David is filled. It is filled by the Christ, whose bloodline was of David both by his mother and his earthly father, Joseph. There is no need to seek the throne of David beyond the Christ, because he is the culmination of the bloodline and he occupies the throne to this day.

The earthly thrones of Europe are no more than counterfeits, with each and every one of them filled by normal men who, by virtue of their service of the Chruch of Rome, were elevated by the old pagan Roman doctrine of apotheosis (a "divine right" accruing to the god-emperor and carried on into the papacy once the Roamn empire became the Holy Roman Empire), not by virtue of bloodline. The old royal dynasties, such as those maintained at Tara, Siluria, and by the Merovingians were all terminated by interlopers, which is as well given that Christ had obviated those titles. That's why the grail romances such as Parzifal make Anfortas, king of Munsalvaesch, the only king of real consequence.

As for the movements of the Israelites (which has nothing to do with the throne of David, given that Israel or Samaria, whose kings were of the line of Ephraim, and Judah, whose kings were of the line of David, separated as nations long before the Assyrian captivity terminated the former kingdom and the Babylonians terminated the latter), their wanderings after liberation from the Assyrians are quite traceable. Their language was modified by the similar Semitic tongue of the Chaldees, as their religion had already been modified by the Phoenicians of Tyre and then again by the Chaldees, but the family names were largely maintained, as were certain histories and legends peculiar to the Samarians.

Revelations tells us quite plainly that Israel (represented by the woman with a crown of 12 stars) will not remain lost, but rather that it would be taken up to a new land and a place prepared. Israel has in fact been taken to that place prepared, which is why the Great Seal features 12 stars surrounding a center star representing Christ. Our fathers created a nation of Christians in a wilderness where the true faith could flourish free from the corruptions of the state churches of Europe, but like the Israel of old, the corruption of the people and the enticements of the moneychangers has again set us against the Creator. Where our nation's founders gladly credited His providence for this nation, today's leaders recoil at so much as His mention.