Thread: I think that the Guest Worker Program is lesser of 2 evils

Well, I ain’t gonna fight the guest worker program. Although I know it’s actually wrong and unjustified to the people who do take a hard effort to come here legally, but we just have to stick to reality here.
also do I know that normally an amnesty should only be an individual case and should not be applied to an entire group of people. Neither am I happy about the so called guest workers plan.

I'd like to see this happen:

1 ) First of all close our borders with Mexico and Canada for a Maximum one year period. So no tourism too for just that one year.

2 ) Check all the people here whether they are legal or illegal.

3 ) The illegals that have been here less than 3 year should be deported UNLESS they gave birth to infants on US Soil. Cause then the children are citizens under the constitution and it would not be nice to separate children from their parents.

4 ) The illegals that have been here for over 3 years, can stay and should be given a Green Card. Why ?? Because I think that they have contributed to this country also.

The bush guest worker programme is going too far in my humble pov, but at least he's trying hard to deal with the issue. And that's why I think the guest worker programme should be accepted by Congress, although I do have a bad feeling with such a guest worker program. But it's the lesser of the 2 evils.

Total guest worker programme is bad, but deporting and separating parents and children from each is also bad. So I'd pick the and would support the Guest Worker Program.

And I also think that most illegals are hard working people looking for a better live. Just like my parents did when they fled communism in Hungary. They also came for a better life without oppression, so I think it would be wrong for me to bar other people to come here if they want a better life.

Although, this is what I think.

An opinion like yours is likely to get laughed off the board by people who read and post here including those who are better informed.

The constitutional interpretation of the 14th ammendment is not that cut and dried. It is really questionable whether people who have violated our immigration laws have submitted themselves to jurisdiction of the United States.

Would you want to extend a general amnesty to people who are working here by having forged federal documentation? The largest source countries of the illegal immigrants like Mexico actually have little oppression. Mexico as compared with other countries has relatively high income just not as high as ours.

Even if you accept the current loose interpretation of the 14th ammendment on lex soli birth citizenship this is so. The policy of countries which practice birth citizenship is to keep the children with the offending deported parents. They can apply for reentry as adults.

The average illegal immigrant Mexican is not that much poorer than the average Hungarian worker of today. Should the Mexican illegals due to their greater physical proximity and disregard for American law have the right to tell this to law abiding Hungarians who might want to live here temporarily or permanently. [mod edit] We do not need the personal insults in the discussion

Originally Posted by newenglandgirl

They also came for a better life without oppression, so I think it would be wrong for me to bar other people to come here if they want a better life.

The problem with that is a world population of around 6 billion people with probably at least 3-5 billion of that population thinking they would have a "better life" here. It would be silly to think anywhere near that number could be absorbed here without making a considerable "worse life" for all of us. So, we have to be restrictive and base immigration selection on factors other than "better life". Really, a country, if it is to survive, must base its immigration policy on what is good for the country -- not on what is good for the immigrant. That is pretty much the policy that was followed by the U.S. from the founding of the country up through the 1970s, 80s, and 90s when political correctness started to prevail rather than common sense.

The problem with the amnesty you suggest in #4 is that we have tried that before (with a big amnesty and several mini-amnesties) and the only thing that happened was that we got more illegal immigration because it sends the message "just sneak on in and eventually you'll be amnestied too". As far as those illegal immigrants "contributing" is concerned, several studies have shown that we have contributed more to them in social services, medical care, education, prison services, etc. than they have contributed to us.

I do think a total immigration moratorium is in order until we get this mess straightened out, but that wouldn't include tourism visas, legitimate student visas, and maybe even some temporary work visas.

And in addition to what Richard said about the 14th amendment, we are not going to hold kids hostage here. The parents would almost always be allowed to take any children with them if they were deported. I don't feel sorry for the parents because they willingly and knowingly created the situation.

Your #2 looks good -- when applying for a job, seeking government benefits, enrolling in schools (even if the courts have said that we can't do that for grades K through 12, I think).

Originally Posted by Richard

Tu eres un goulash comiendo tonto. You are a goulash eating fool.

Well, before I subscribed, I read in the forum rules that racism wouldn't be tolerated. And you refer with Goulash to my background wich is pure racism and discrimination towards me. As I'm just a US born citizen whose parents came from Hungary. Same as I would say to an Italian American that he's a pizza eating fool. O that a Mexican American would be a tortilla eating fool. But, I've to tell you that I won't lower my standards to your level.

Richard,

I don't mind to be laughed at, as long as people come up with arguments why they agree or disagree with me. And about the 14th ammendment, I don't know too much honestly. But it's general said by people I know that any person born on US soil is US citizen.

I know that many people have forged documentation, but I think that the Mexican government can figure that out for us. There may not be oppression in Mexico, but when I was in Cancun, I saw many poor Indians who only make $ 2,00 a day. So that ain't much.

NewEnglandGirl,

Bluehills is right. If we guest worker illegal aliens there are millions more ready to rush right into America as soon as we send the all clear signal.

We can talk about getting tough, but actions speak louder than words.

Any reward for illegal aliens will only encourage more illegal immigration.

There are tough decisions that must be made or we will all be working for change in a country that is more like the place these "hard workers" are fleeing.

W

Ailipac,

I agree with Bluehills on some issues he wrote, - not yet the availability to reply to Bluehills - , if I would use my common sense. But if I let my heart speak, I think it's wrong to deport people who have been a part of our society for years. The illegals have probably already created a social life here and made many friends with US citizens in their neighbourhoods. You just can't deport people and take friends away from someone else life. If I had friends that would be illegal, I wouldn't like them to be deported and never see them again.

And I know about the 1986 amnesty and the amnesties therafter. That's why I was advocating in my initial post to close the border for one year. That gives us the time to increase the number of border patrol agents.

newenglandgirl

1) You like so many others are giving Vicente Fox a free ride. He is an enthnic-cleansing butthole who needs to be held accountable for all the desert deaths and all the deaths of American citizens that his refusal to run his own country and take care of his own people, has caused.

2) guest-worker program. Americans need those jobs. We have hundreds of thousands of displaced workers, we have hundreds of thousands of unemployed teens, we have hundreds of thousands of low-skilled Americans including marginally-functioning Americans who need these jobs.

3) We spend billions of dollars a year on the births, education and social service support of illegal aliens and the children of their EXTREMELY high birth rate. If you make them legal, we will STILL be spending that money. These people need ot go home and have their 4 point something children THERE. They need to have their 500,000 disabled children THERE.

We have a concept here in the United States and in most of Europe that you have to suport your own children. In the socialist type of world that Mexico has become, they don't understand this concept. The men father children all over the place and aren't made to support them. It's part of their culture. That being the case, and not wanting to assimilate into our culture, they need to return DOWN THERE down south so they can live the way they want. Up here in the USA, and in most of Europe, you 'stick it in the hole' you pay for 18 years. EVERY SINGLE ONE or all 20.

4) This grows out of number (3). At 330 million, we now NEED a zero or negative birth rate. Mexico has only half our population but a way higher birth rate. So these illegal aliens need to go down there. We are out of room, we are out of water, we have electricity blackouts all over, we have hundreds of closed medical facilities----we can't take any more people and we can't take any more of THEIR CHILDREN.

5) A Mexican should love Mexico, with its rich natural history and its indigenous cultures unique in the world. That is his country, that is her origin. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and go back home and do something for your country. FIX IT. Whatever it takes. Force if necessary. CLEAN IT UP. You owe it to yourself, your children, and all the gneerations fo Mexican=born people who lived and died before you.

If you don't love your own country---be it China, India, Iran or Bolivia--you aren't going to love this one either. GO HOME.

Hi Newenglandgirl, welcome to ALIPAC.

You know I used to be very similar to you in my views. I would consider something like people's friendships as important even though they entered the US illegally.

I guess having three children, two of whom are in high school made me really wake up and smell the roses. Newenglandgirl, it was about the time of the first beheadings in the Middle East that I said, "WHOA".

I realized that my children could be one of those victims someday, and I said, "OKAY, TIME TO WAKE UP". I put down anything that wasn't necessary to take up my time, and I started paying close attention to the state of affairs of our country.

There are MANY logical and principled reasons as to why I say no amnesty
I would like to share with you my thoughts regarding our teenagers and young Americans.

Newenglandgirl, our American kids are in dire danger. Everyday that President Bush leaves our borders vulnerable, he puts the child of every American in danger. We know for a fact that at one point the layout and blueprints of some of our schools were in the hands of terrorists. This is what should keep President Bush from being able to fall asleep everynight.

But beyond that, it is a crying shame that we have soldiers fighting around the world to spread freedom and democracy and to protect us, when President Bush leaves their fellow countrymen and loved ones back home vulnerable. It's beyond belief that he could do that.

I know you said that you wanted the borders closed. Thank you for seeing that as critical to the safety and well-being of the citizens of the United States.

If we were to grant amnesty of any kind, it will further encourage more people to see over staying visas and crossing our borders illegally as a viable way to enter this country. It is not. It is a federal offense and it must be treated as such.

I sincerely hope that each time you feel pity for those who have entered our country illegally that you will take a moment to look into the eyes of an American child. Our youngest ones go to school unaware of the danger that lurks throughout the day. Our teenagers go to school and they know the danger they face.

These American kids deserve to be held with the highest regard by their president. They deserve to know that he will stop at nothing to provide them with the utmost possible conditions of safety and security. Our Federal Immigration Laws exist for our very safety and well-being. It is a catastrophe for the United States of America to have a president who would even consider rewarding or excusing those who fail to respect this or any other law.

We've heard President Bush attempt to lighten up the seriousness of this offense, ("Just good people coming across to put food on the table, family values don't stop at the Rio Grande"). Everytime he does this he demonstrates grose negligence.

So please, when you feel pity inside for illegal aliens, take a long hard look into the eyes of an American child. There are needy children around the world, and in America as well. We have an enormous number of families living in poverty in America. But what American children need most, is to have a president who has the fortitude to stand up and do what is right. His compassionate talk about illegal aliens is nothing short of extreme negligence regarding his responsibility and his oath to the American people.