Thread: I think that the Guest Worker Program is lesser of 2 evils

NewEnglandGirl: Have you ever heard of MS-13? These gangs of illegals are taking over law abiding neighborhoods everyday. How do I know? Because I watched my working class neighborhood become infested with first illegals and then MS-13 shortly there after. What is your solution to this problem? Amenesty? Maybe you should come down from your ivory tower and try living in the real world sister and then we talk

Welcome NewEnglandGirl

Glad you have come to join us.

NewEnglandGirl, I of course agree with W that any Amnesty would reward illegals and also encourage more. But to add more. It would reward the companies that have been hiring them. There rewards are your tax money.

Now I want you to think, are you benefiting from illegals. Is you house that you build any cheaper. Is anything any cheaper.

By rough estimates, last year 70 billion in taxes nation wide was spent on illegals, in Health and education. This is not including, job lose, wage decline on any other cost to the American people.
Just to give you another number, the Banks said in June, that 9.6 billion has already been wired to Mexico, as of June. They expect over 20 billion before the end of the year.
Me and my wife waited 2 years to get her here, legally so why. Should any citizen or legal immigrant. Like the ideal of rewarding someone, that knowingly breaks the law.
I personally think if the Government enforced the laws we have now. We wouldn't have this problem. If they just enforce the law that states, that anyone hiring illegals, can be fined or have a jail sentence. Then guess what, the jobs would be coming back to the hands of the Citizens and Legal immigrants. start putting this companies owners in Jail and Poof the problem will solve itself.

Have a great day
Scuba

Newenglandgirl; I am from Vermont, how about you? Onto this.

4 ) The illegals that have been here for over 3 years, can stay and should be given a Green Card. Why ?? Because I think that they have contributed to this country also.

The average illegal alien costs the American taxpayer 90,000 dollars to integrate. Now using the basic tax system I am going to call 90k about 120k in taxable income(our money), this is being generous. So within 3 years Americans are going to shell 40k a year in taxable income to support someone who likely is underemployed and largely contribute NOTHING in the way of taxes. What is the contribution these people have made other than to make criminals of themselves, and then foster and enable their criminal employers at the expense of the legitimate ones? THIS IS REALITY!

If he/she is working with forged documents, and paying social security then they will never collect on that, due to the stolen or fabricated social security number. Where then is the justice in that? For anyone? Meanwhile we pick up the tab for educating their families, feeding them with food stamps, paying their rent, giving them healthcare and on and on and on.

Tell you what, since you are so benevolent, can we have the next family of illegals that commits the felony of illegal entry, to live at your house?, that way you can actually contribute in a meaningful way to the policies you are willing to slide before us. When they get sick, can they be part of your health plan? Perhaps you can send them to private school, as I am tired of teaching people who are unwilling to learn English at the expense of parents whose children are legitimate inhabitants of OUR Country. cheers glenn

I'm glad you're here, NewEnglandgirl--I think it's great that we have rational people arguing a solution to our border problem. We do need some sort of guest worker program particularly in the Ag industry. The details of what KIND of guest worker program is where I get hung up most of the time. I am absolutely against ANY amnesty. But coming up with a program where people can come in here and work jobs that people REALLY don't want to do, which to mind mind is almost entirely field work, would be good. I don't buy this crap however that Americans won't do construction work, or work in in restaurants.

One of the warning signs that got me interested in this issue was Bush saying that to employ a non-American, an employer must PROVE that there are no Americans willing to do the job. I found that statement fascinating! My first question was, of course, what SYSTEM is in place whereby employers scour America for an American who'll do a partiular job. I mean, what is required, by law, of an employer to do to find a willing American? What is the process?

There is NONE. It's all a lie. They aren't required by law to do a damn thig. Bush is lying.

Tell you what, since you are so benevolent, can we have the next family of illegals that commits the felony of illegal entry, to live at your house?, that way you can actually contribute in a meaningful way to the policies you are willing to slide before us. When they get sick, can they be part of your health plan? Perhaps you can send them to private school, as I am tired of teaching people who are unwilling to learn English at the expense of parents whose children are legitimate inhabitants of OUR Country. cheers glenn


God bless you Glenn, you made my day!

BlueHills,

It’s true that approx. 3-5 billion people would have a better life here. But not all those people are able or want to come here. And there are many other rich nation the poor can go to. I don’t advocate people breaking our immigration laws – actually one should not break any law – but the problem is here. Many illegals cross our border every single day, it’s a huge problem. It has to be solved indeed. But I read so many posts that people are against illegal immigration – including me – but no one, as far as I’ve read, has come with any type of solution. What do you think the world will look at as when we deport the 10 million illegals currently here ?
We would be even more criticized. The problem should be solved and Bush is the only one who’s willing to address the issue, whether you agree with him or not.

I know we’ve tried amnesty before, like the huge one in 1986. But the problem was, that we didn’t guard our border that much even after that amnesty. That’s why I was advocating to close the border for one year, so we’ve enough time to increase the number of border patrol agents. And you claimed that illegals cost us more than that they are a benefit ti us. Do you have any prove for that ?

And agreed that we don’t hold kids hostage here, but what we do when we deport them with their parents is that we violate the constitutional right of these kids as they are US citizens. And that strikes me.

Lambsmarch,

1 )The only ones accountable for desert deaths and the death of US citizens is the responsibility of the people who committed the crime. Many American tourists go to Thailand to abuse children. Is our government responsible for those crimes committed by American tourists over there ?? No of course not. Any single individual is responsible for it’s own action. So we can’t blame our government, netiher can we blame the Mexican government. Mexico is a democracy and I trust it’s government, just like I trust our government.

2) Americans need those jobs that illegal aliens do, you stated. Well, why are there so many restaurants and construction companies hiring illegals ?? Because many Americans don’t want to do that dirty work, neither will I do that.

3) You’re probably right on that. I don’t know the figures about the amount of monet sent on illegal aliens.

Well it’s not true that in most of Europe that you’ve to support your own children. Many European countries provide welfare to children.

4) The Census counter says that we’ve around 295 million people and not 330 million. Look at our population density, that’s lower than any single European country, save Norway and Iceland, so we can have around 500 million people or so. We’re about the same size as China and that country isn’t that bad, I think – never been there.

5 ) Of course a Mexican should love Mexico. But if the situation is soo horrible
There, 25% of it’s people make only 2 Dollars a day, it’s understandable that they come here. You can’t blame them, you and I would have done the same.

Legaluscitizen,

Thanx for welcoming me.
You were referring to the beheadings in the Middle East, but who is that related that you changed your pov regarding illegal immigration. I mean, we hardly have any Middle easterners here. And most immigrants, legal or illegal, come from Mexico. And they are Catholics and not so backwards as those in the Middle East. Note: I don’t mean to insult any person from that area.

you’re talking about that our kids are in danger, but actually to be honest, I’m a teenager too who’s attending High School. And I like to see prove that there were blueprints of some of our schools in the hands of terrorists. The greatest danger to our schools and me, is the power of the NRA.

And I agree that it’s a shame that we’re fighting wars overseas while we can’t control our own border or can hardly handle the situation in the Big Easy, due to the fact there is no one protecting this country. I even heard that when 9/11 occurred, that there were just 14 jets available to protect this nation.

And yes I do see the safety and well-being of the citizens in how the border is secured. But I wanna stay civilized too. We just can’t built an iron curtain. We can’t divide people and countries.

You were also talking that amnesty will encourage people to break in or overstay visas. You might be right a little bit, but you forget that we’ve now a system that any tourist will be fingerprinted so we do know who entered this country legally, but overstayed it’s visa. We can find that person and deport him/her.

And I’m not commenting on the part where you talked about teenagers, children etcetc. As I only have to look in the mirror. Like I’m a teenager myself ( 17 ). So I was not able to vote last election, so neither can I be blamed for the situation on the border. Anyone who voted Bush or Kerry is too blame, as they are both the same regarding to illegal aliens.


I know you said that you wanted the borders closed. Thank you for seeing that as critical to the safety and well-being of the citizens of the United States.

If we were to grant amnesty of any kind, it will further encourage more people to see over staying visas and crossing our borders illegally as a viable way to enter this country. It is not. It is a federal offence and it must be treated as such.

Steelerbabe :

I’ve never heard of the MS-13. But you were later on talking about gangs, so I assume that the MS-13 is a gang. But i can easily look that up on the internet. Amnesty should not apply to gangs or criminals.

Hi Scubayons,

Thanx for welcoming me.

I think the illegal aliens problem is a very hard issue to solve and it would indeed reward companies hiring them. That would give a wrong signal. But I just can’t come up with a better solution as the ones I wrote in my initial post. That’s I was referring to 2 evils of solutions. Now, I’m not benefiting from illegals as I’m still a students. Neither do the illegals border me as far as I know. I don’t know any illegals. There might be some in my neighbourhood I think they could be illegals, but I’m not gonna ask them. And I’m still living with my parents, so neither can I tell you anything about the raise in house prices. I know that some on this forum would think that I’m just a child as I’m 17, but I can think for myself and have a clear pov.

70 billion is a lot of money is that’s indeed spent on illegals. It’s a waste of money, the same as the 350 billion on the military, which can also be cut to 200 billion or so. But you come with the 70 billion figure, do you also have any prove for that ????

I know that rewarding people who break the law is wrong, but I just can’t come up with a better solution, neither can anyone on this forum as far as I’ve read. The solution must be a combination of compassionate and reality. Closing the border for a very long time and deporting all 10 million illegals is something that can’t be achieved and it might start tension among different ethnic groups. And we also should keep Mexico as a friends as our security also depends on their willingness.

And our jails are already packed. We’ve the world’s highest number of inmates. We just don’t have the capacity to jail any person that is hiring illegals.

Have a great day too