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08-07-2006, 02:08 PM #61
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Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost
Has anyone else ever tried to follow the paper trail of where a statistic on sites like realitycheck, or cis, or Lou Dobbs' mouth, or from any of you, actually comes from? It's fun. It just goes round and round and round and round. The next stop on the trip is always the one you left just 4 stops ago.
As they say, 67% of statistics are made up on the spot.All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God.
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08-07-2006, 02:11 PM #62
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Since our little troll wants citations to back the alleged percentages of illegals in the prison system, I thought I would continue to oblige.
I found this one in the background info for the Border Protection, Antiterrorism and Illegal Immigration Control Act of 2005:
The United States has experienced a drastic increase in crime committed by illegal aliens, particularly by illegal aliens that are members of criminal gangs. These criminal alien gangs are becoming increasingly prevalent throughout the country. 3
This disturbing trend is evidenced by the growing number of Federal inmates who are non-citizens, which is rapidly approaching 25 percent of the prison population. 4
[Footnote 3: See, e.g., Immigration and the Alien Gang Epidemic: Problems and Solutions: Hearing Before the Subcomm. on Immigration, Border Security and Claims of the House Comm. on the Judiciary, 109th Cong. (2005); Heather MacDonald, The Immigrant Gang Plague, the City Journal, Summer 2004; Heather MacDonald, The Illegal-Alien Crime Wave, The City Journal, Winter 2004.]
[Footnote 4: See Paige Harrison and Jennifer Karberg, Prison and Jail Inmates at Midyear 2003, Bureau of Justice Statistics Bulletin at 5 (May 2004)(23.5 percent of all Federal inmates were noncitizens as of June 30, 2003).]
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08-07-2006, 02:14 PM #63
http://www.therealitycheck.org/StaffWri ... 051606.htm
Sources: US Justice Department, US Bureau of Prisons, General Accounting Office, American Federation of Police, National Association of Chiefs of Police
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08-07-2006, 02:14 PM #64
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Originally Posted by MrLeft
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08-07-2006, 02:22 PM #65
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Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost
What do you have to say about the US Dept of Justice figures that show the combined efforts of illegals and legals alike count for only 6.4% of state and federal inmates?All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God.
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08-07-2006, 02:26 PM #66
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Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost
I'm sorry, but "Lou Dobbs said it" is not good enough. I want to actually see where you stat originates from, not just two websites parroting a made up statistic.All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God.
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08-07-2006, 02:31 PM #67
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I'm enjoying this little game, so let's keep going.
How do you feel about the reliability of the GAO? It produced the report in 2005 that is most frequently cited.
Here were its findings relative to the numbers of aliens as a percentage of the prison population for 2001-2004 (page 15 of the report):
total * US citizens * aliens
2001: 154,290 * 111,866 * 42,424
2002: 161,110 * 117,037 * 44,073
2003: 170,365 * 124,302 * 46,063
2004: 178,512 * 129,804 * 48,708
That works out to 27.3% for 2004 and an average for the period of 27.3%. I would say that's pretty consistent.
Here's a link to the GAO report, titled Information on Criminal Aliens Incarcerated in Federal and State Prisons and Local Jails:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05337r.pdf
Are we getting close to being able to agree that the percentage of aliens in our prisons is something over 25%?
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08-07-2006, 02:33 PM #68Originally Posted by Charlesoakisland
I'll admit that I haven't closely read all the posts here but I have done some research in NC. The NC Department of Corrections keeps tabs on nationality/country of birth but does not differentiate as to legal/illegal.
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08-07-2006, 02:38 PM #69
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Originally Posted by MrLeft
BTW - I'd like to see your comment on the fairly definitive GAO report which inlcudes data for 2001 through 2004.
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08-07-2006, 03:08 PM #70
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False. For the Reality Check site, the sources are cited at the end of the article.
The stats aren't "wrong." You just don't like them.
They purport to use the same sources that I used (and that you ignore), yet their stats do not appear anywhere in the actual source.
Similarly, the .pdf you cited does not provide total numbers of prison inmates by race, as you seem to falsely claim.
Did I claim it or just seem to claim it?
What it provides is another screwy stat, which is RATE per 100,000 residents. Note that in the total for all age groups, Hispanics are incarcerated at a higher rate than all groups listed except blacks, as follows:
White: 709
Black: 4682
Hispanic: 1856
Other: 1371
You know this trick you use of arguing against a non-existant point? Well it sucks.
I'm actually curious, apart from displaying obvious racism, what your point is here? Are you now suggesting blacks and hispanics are actually the problem?
As far as the percentage in the state and federal prison systems, that number cannot be ascertained from this data, which is an aggregate RATE for prisons AND local and county jails. Furthermore, the RATE is for the "US resident population." Illegal aliens are not legal US residents, so it is unclear as to whether they are even included in these stats.
And yes, non-citizens is for all inmates that are not citizens. Seems pretty self-explanatory.
Furthermore, table 14, for example, demonstrates the oddball methodology employed, which I detail below.
1. Counts by race and Hispanic origin were estimated.
2. To correct for missing data, reoprts for each group were aggregated by State, converted to percentages, then multiplied by the total prison and jail counts.
3. (and this is the kicker!) These numbers EXCLUDE ALL INMATES SENTENCED TO MORE THAN ONE YEAR.
1. We're not talking about race or gender are we?
2. Did you miss where it says "for each group"? And why oh why did you italicise "converted to percentages"? Again, we're not even talking about race.
3. That is only for the District of Columbia
The percentage of "non-citizen" inmates is given as 19% for FEDERAL prisons, but the state prison rate is screwy. Why? Because if you look at the notes for stats from the individual states, their methodology for determining this stat varies greatly, with many states not even providing that stat. So in those cases we are back to the issue of averaging based upon percentage of population, which does not appear to be adjusted for higher incarceration rates for many of the races representing the non-citizens.
So this is scarcely a useful set of statistics for determining the accuracy of the claim that about 1/3 or prison inmates are illegal aliens, is it? It is estimated, provided in "rates" that don't separate illegals from legals, and it excludes the HUGE demographic of inmates sentenced to more than one year. Nice going!
The document, an official one from the US Dept of Justice, states clearly, and I quote
"State and federal correctional authorities held 91,117 noncitizens (6.4% of all prisoners), down from 91,815 at midyear 2004".
That is not a rate per 100,000. It doesn't need to separate illegals and non-illegals, if it did the % would have to be less than the 6.4% of those two combined.
You must not have taken any statistics classes in school, because you seem to have no idea what the stats you are citing do and do not demonstrate.All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God.
Laura Loomer - Woke up this morning to a @nytimes article...
03-27-2024, 11:36 PM in General Discussion