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  1. #1
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    looking for a legal theory

    Can someone explain this to me?

    I simply do not understand why it would be unlawful for United States citizens to detain illegal aliens crossing the border. I fully understand the MinuteMan project was deliberately engineered to preclude that possibility in order project a certain image. However in the general sense, what legal measures are actually available to illegal aliens who are detained? I have looked over various cites and I cannot find a compelling legal theory which would indicate that the apprehension of illegal aliens is unlawful…In fact I cannot find a compelling legal theory that would state that even more aggressive actions would be unlawful. The last I knew citizen arrests were legal and forceful apprehension was within the bounds of the law.

    Can anyone clarify this?

    Basking in my own ignorance,

    Patriotman

  2. #2
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    I hope you get an answer, Patriotman, I've been wondering the same thing.

    RR
    The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed. " - Lloyd Jones

  3. #3
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    So far as I am aware, any citizen may conduct a citizens arrest, if he witnesses a crime taking place. Police authorities do not like anyone else doing their job however as it makes them look bad, and when you make such an arrest, you DAMN SURE better be right.

    They want a citizenry that is dependant upon them, and if you screw up by one little bit in making a citizens arrest, they will bust you quicker than you can blink.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Husker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonQuixote
    So far as I am aware, any citizen may conduct a citizens arrest, if he witnesses a crime taking place. Police authorities do not like anyone else doing their job however as it makes them look bad, and when you make such an arrest, you DAMN SURE better be right.

    They want a citizenry that is dependant upon them, and if you screw up by one little bit in making a citizens arrest, they will bust you quicker than you can blink.
    I believe that all (most) CA (citizen arrest) rights are granted by the state. Unfortunately, someone crossing our (less than) sovereign borders is a federal felony, and not a state felony. Thus the conundrum. The state may or may not have jurisdiction (I am not sure this has been "proven" one way or the other). And since the state allows (or does not allow) CA to happen, and the state puts stipluations upon when/where/how a CA can happen, the ability of citizens to make a CA when dealing with felony illegal alien tresspassers, is a VERY gray area.

    NOTE I heard several people talking about a law in AZ which will grant CA rights to arrest illegals. Can anyone find information out about this? Also, since AZ falls under the 9th circus court, I wonder if a law such as this will be able to stand the test of time??

    H.

  5. #5
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    Well conveniently here is an example:

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... ef-ON.html

    <begin snip>

    Man arrested, accused of holding immigrants at gunpoint

    The Arizona Republic
    Apr. 11, 2005 10:20 PM

    Maricopa County sheriff's deputies arrested a Mesa man on suspicion of aggravated assault early Monday after he reportedly held seven undocumented immigrants at gunpoint when he spotted the group at a highway rest stop in Gila Bend.

    Patrick Haab, 24, reportedly ordered the group to lay on the ground and threatened to shoot them while he waited for U.S. Border Patrol agents to arrive, Sheriff Joe Arpaio said. There is no indication that Haab, an Army reservist assigned to a special forces unit, is affiliated with any groups such as the volunteer Minuteman Project in southern Arizona. Haab declined to discuss the incident with sheriff's investigators.

    The group of immigrants had emerged from some bushes near a rest stop along Interstate 8 when Haab spotted them getting into a truck. While detaining the group, Haab handed another gun to a man at the rest stop and asked for his assistance until federal agents arrived, Arpaio said. The unidentified individual left the scene and sheriff's detectives were still trying to identify him late Monday.

    - David J. Cieslak

    <end snip>

    So here we have a patriot apparently being persecuted for defending his country from the hoard of criminal illegal alien invaders destroying this nation.

    I notice how the paper calls the "immigrants" rather than illegal alien invaders. And no mention is made of the disposition of the invaders, only of the patriot.

    This sickens me. If anyone starts a legal defense fund for this man let me know.

    I do not know the oath that a reservist takes but I am willing to bet it contains some words to the effect of defending our country against its enemies. If so, in my book, that gives him cause.

    Patriotman

  6. #6
    Senior Member Husker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patriotman
    I do not know the oath that a reservist takes but I am willing to bet it contains some words to the effect of defending our country against its enemies. If so, in my book, that gives him cause.

    Patriotman
    http://www.army.mil/usapa/eforms/pdf/A71.PDF (I had to save to disk to get the file right, but it was there).

    I, ........name................... .. ...............SSN...............
    having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of .................................... do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; SO HELP ME GOD. .........signature...............
    NOTE the above is exactly (minus any spelling errors added by me) like it shows on the PFD file (I had to retype). The underlines are there without the periods which were added to pacify PHPBbs, the italic (or affirm) is just like that (Damn PC crap), and the SO HELP ME GOD. is just like that, all caps.

    Note against all ememies, foreign and domestic clause. Problem is, that domestic enemies might be well camoflaged (sp) by being so openly in plain sight (I am sure most here understand my obfuscation).

    H.

  7. #7
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    Thanks Husker,

    <begin Husker quote>

    I, ........name................... .. ...............SSN...............
    having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of .................................... do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies,

    <end Husker quote>

    Hmmm...let's see Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution is as follows:

    <begin Constitution quote>

    The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion;

    <end Constitution quote>

    Sounds to me like according to his oath he had a DUTY to detain the illegal alien invaders violating our nation’s sovereignty.

    Patriotman

  8. #8
    Senior Member dman1200's Avatar
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    Patriotman:

    Problem is Patriotman that our country is being run by a bunch of rotten stinking no good corrupt bum lawyers who care more about greed and power than our country. I guarantee you (and you probably already know this so I'm more than likely preaching to the choir here because your a very well versed, very smart man) that 98 percent of anyone who's at the higher and highest brackets of power in our country are lawyers. Look at Congress. Most of the politicans who draft legislation are lawyers. The lobbyists in these pressure groups are most likely lawyers. The majority of Bush's cabinet are lawyers (especially the head of DHS). Look at Tom Daschle. Not a peep about him after he got voted out. You know what he's doing now? He's working at a law firm with some retired Republican congressman. So that tells you all you need to know. Even alot of these CEO's from big corporations that donate to these corrupt sissy politicans are lawyers. Where do you think open borders zealot Congressman Chris Cannon got most of his campaign contributions from to defeat his Republican primary challenger in Utah? Most of the illegals that get legalized under amnesty and take advantage of cheap tuition breaks from states like California and Utah go on to become lawyers and social workers to help get rewards for illegals.

    So my point is that there is nothing wrong with what the Minutemen are doing and there is nothing wrong with enforcing our laws either by citizens arrest or by the police, but thanks to the lawyers from groups like the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild now you can't enforce the laws out of fear of being sued for racial profiling and discrimination or some bs like that. Thanks to the lawyers who also btw control the rogue courts with the tyrants in the black robes (who are also lawyers) illegal aliens have full access to our courts and can sue any US citizen who infringes on their so called rights (yeah oxymoron, I know). Isn't that wonderful? Those who have no right to even be in our country can sue us and take everything we own if we dare to stop them from breaking the law and invading our country.

    I was listening to the great Michael Savage last night and he was talking about how some Arizona citizen (I don't think it was the one your talking about on your above post, I think it was a female) detained a few illegal aliens on her property and waited until the BP arrived. The next day the ACLU calls her home and tells her that because she infringed on the illegal aliens rights that she is being taken to court by (get this) 13 Mexican nationals and they told her to either settle out of court for 3 million or the ACLU will move to cease all of her assets. I damn near came close to putting my fist through the computer screen when I heard this.

    If I was in charge (which unfortunately I'm not and probably never will be) I would shutdown the ACLU and groups like them under RICO and try them for fraud and sedition and if and when found guilty I would have all of their assets ceased, I would revoke all of their citizenships and have them all deported to Lebanon or whatever cesspool I see fit at the time. I would do the same thing to all of the Mexican consulates too. In fact I think we should deport all illegal aliens to any MiddleEastern country of our choosing. See if they want to invade our country then.
    Please support our fight against illegal immigration by joining ALIPAC's email alerts here https://eepurl.com/cktGTn

  9. #9
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    What can we do in support of this patriot? Everyone should be able to defend our country against illegals. Without Question!!

    Shall we send an email blitz to Maricopa county? How about letters to the newspaper? We can do SomeThing, can't we??

    RR
    The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed. " - Lloyd Jones

  10. #10
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    I agree with your solutions 100%...but do you think that Lebanon would TAKE 'em...

    they told her to either settle out of court for 3 million or the ACLU will move to cease all of her assets.
    Since when does the ACLU had the power to cease anyone's assets??

    RR
    The men who try to do something and fail are infinitely better than those who try to do nothing and succeed. " - Lloyd Jones

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