Thread: Mexicans react to transcript of Trump call with their president

I'm thinking, hoping, that Pres. Trump is doing what is best in this.

Just think what happened when he tried to use his legal power to put a halt to people coming from certain countries until they could be checked out.

Federal judges halted it.

What do you think would have happened if he had simply just ended it? There would have been judges all over the country stopping it. There would have been lawsuits filed in every courthouse in this country and our government would have spent time and money on them.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

I'm thinking, hoping, that Pres. Trump is doing what is best in this.

Just think what happened when he tried to use his legal power to put a halt to people coming from certain countries until they could be checked out.

Federal judges halted it.

What do you think would have happened if he had simply just ended it? There would have been judges all over the country stopping it. There would have been lawsuits filed in every courthouse in this country and our government would have spent time and money on them.

Exactly. The situation we have now is actually great. The Texas lawsuit was continued pending a ruling on legality by DOJ to terminate. There is also a DACA lawsuit at the US Supreme Court also awaiting an opinion brief by the DOJ. So DACA is riding for now on the Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, a Federal District Court, and the US Supreme Court.

Originally Posted by nntrixie

I'm thinking, hoping, that Pres. Trump is doing what is best in this.

Just think what happened when he tried to use his legal power to put a halt to people coming from certain countries until they could be checked out.

Federal judges halted it.

What do you think would have happened if he had simply just ended it? There would have been judges all over the country stopping it. There would have been lawsuits filed in every courthouse in this country and our government would have spent time and money on them.

Actually, no there wouldn't have been. This is a completely different situation from the travel ban. Trump or the Secretary of DHS could have ended it easily and without legal argument.

Trump's reasoning for continuing DACA, even though he promised to end it during the campaign, had absolutely nothing to do with legality questions. He kept it going because he had "heart" ..... his word, not mine. Saying he was fearful of lawsuits is a false narrative and is absolutely no justification for breaking his promise to the American people.

Ending This Immigration Program Would Devastate the Economy

Julissa Arce
Jul 21, 2017

Senators Lindsey Graham (R-SC) and Dick Durbin (D-IL) introduced a new Dream Act in Congress Wednesday, reminding Americans that there is strong bipartisan support for Dreamers—immigrants who were brought to the U.S. as children and are seeking citizenship. According to a recent Morning Consult and Politico poll, 78% of American voters support giving Dreamers the chance to stay permanently in America, including 73% of people who voted for President Donald Trump.

The Dream Act is a strong legislative solution that would allow young immigrants to continue living their American dream with a path to permanent residency and eventually citizenship. But until a long-term solution such as the Dream Act or comprehensive immigration reform is enacted, we need to continue protecting the nearly 800,000 immigrant youth currently living with Deferred Actions for Childhood Arrivals (DACA). In doing so, they would not only protect these people’s futures, but also the very economic health of our country.

Young immigrants today are scared and confused. The president has demonized us as “rapists” and “criminals,” then celebrated us as “incredible kids” who will be “treated with heart.”

The DACA program, which allows certain undocumented youth to work legally in the U.S., and provides protection from deportation, has made these immigrants feel safer in a country they consider their home. But politicians have put their livelihoods in jeopardy by making political and legal moves to rescind the program—and Trump’s flip-flopping has given them the political cover to do so. My home state of Texas has taken the lead in this particular race to the bottom, with Attorney General Ken Paxton calling on other states to join him in demanding that the administration end the program—he has nine with him so far.

These young people arrived in the U.S. with stories similar to mine. They came here as children with their families and have lived here most of their lives. We all grew up watching the same TV shows, playing the same games, studying American history, and eating hot dogs and ice cream. We have the same dreams as so many Americans: going to college, getting a job we love, and spending time with our families and friends.

So how are we different? For most of our lives we’ve had to live in the shadows. This has kept many of us from going to college and getting good jobs, living with dreams and aspirations that could not be realized. But DACA changed this for thousands of Dreamers. The program has given immigrant youth the chance to come out of hiding and to live their full potential, contributing to their communities and their country. With DACA, young people can work, get a driver’s license and go to college; they can live free from the constant anxiety and fear of being ripped from the only real home they know.

I never had DACA, but I know many bright young people who do. In fact, my organization, the Ascend Educational Fund, provides scholarships for young immigrants, many of whom have DACA and rely on it to be eligible for college admission. One of our scholars is a young man named Israel who emigrated from Mexico and graduated from one of the top high schools in the nation. He is a CUNY Excellence Award winner and attends Baruch College in New York. He has also been a loyal volunteer with the Big Brother Big Sisters of America program in his community, working to beat back the stereotypes and hateful rhetoric around the immigrant community.

Maintaining DACA is not only right for young immigrants like Israel, it is also smart. The economic benefits of DACA are clear. With DACA in effect, recipients are getting higher levels of education and using their skills and training to get better jobs. This means higher wages and more tax revenue. According to a 2016 Center for American Progress study, recipients are also buying cars and houses and starting new businesses, all of which means more tax revenue to cities and states across the country.

Should the program be terminated, however, the losses would be devastating. The same study estimates that ending DACA would reduce the nation’s GDP by $433.4 billion over a decade. Another study by the Immigrant Legal Resource Center states that 685,195 young immigrants would become unemployed immediately, causing employers to incur $3.4 billion in costs associated with the termination and replacement of employees. Without DACA, tax revenue would be seriously impacted. Over the next decade, $24.6 billion in Social Security and Medicare contributions would be lost.

Ending DACA and targeting immigrant youth for deportation will come with serious political consequences. Politicians on both sides of the aisle would be wise to focus on issues that strengthen our economy and not undermine it. The program contributes significantly to the American economy and grants young people the chance to thrive and succeed. To throw DACA away is both bad policy and a broken promise to our youth. President Trump: We’re counting on you to treat our incredible kids with heart and ensure that DACA is here to stay.

http://fortune.com/2017/07/21/daca-d...igration-news/

________________

I don't agree with the premises of this article but thought the poll information in it which I have seen before is something we might all keep in mind in order to know just where we stand with claims that Trump is breaking his promise to the American People.

Judy wrote (excerpt):

I don't agree with the premises of this article but thought the poll information in it which I have seen before is something we might all keep in mind in order to know just where we stand with claims that Trump is breaking his promise to the American People.

You can show all the DREAMER favorable polls you want, but that still doesn't change the fact that Trump broke a very strong campaign promise he made to the American people. If you prefer, we can change my words "American people" to Trump's base supporters. Hmm, I wonder how many of them were called to comment on the poll?

I'm not so infatuated with Trump that I can't see that Trump's failure to keep his campaign promise to end DACA didn't damage him with his base supporters. After all, I think it was the immigration issue that thrust Trump to victory.

Originally Posted by MW

Actually, no there wouldn't have been. This is a completely different situation from the travel ban. Trump or the Secretary of DHS could have ended it easily and without legal argument.

Trump's reasoning for continuing DACA, even though he promised to end it during the campaign, had absolutely nothing to do with legality questions. He kept it going because he had "heart" ..... his word, not mine. Saying he was fearful of lawsuits is a false narrative and is absolutely no justification for breaking his promise to the American people.

No, it isn't a false narrative - it is reality.


If we lived in a sane country with our laws being enforced, yes. Of course, if that were the case, there would be no 'dreamers' here.

We all know a lawsuit can be filed for any ridiculous reason and there is always some judge - lots of judges for that matter - who would halt the ending of DACA. They don't need a reason - not a real reason - not even a legal one.

We have to admit that we are not ruled by sane laws any longer in this country. We have a lot of truly strange and dangerous people in places of power.

We are naive, very naive, if we didn't admit to ourselves there would have been dozens, hundreds of lawsuits filed and judges willing to do the bidding of these people.

Personally, I wish he would have ended it the first day.

I wish he had charged and arrested the heads and others of the last 3 administrations who have put this country in this situation.

They are guilty, we know it, but he couldn't do that.

I'm hoping he is working in other ways to get all this done without causing a total meltdown of our judicial system.

I wish he had ordered all illegals deported.

I wish he had pulled all out troops out of the 'wars' we are in - closed 99% of our foreign bases and put those soldiers on our own border.

I wish he had charged each and every employer who has hired illegals.

I wish he had prosecuted employers who abused the HB program.

I wish he had stopped foreign aid.

I wish he had ended this unholy alliance between corporate America and our government.

I wish he had righted every wrong in this country.


I wish - I wish - I wish.

nntrixie wrote (excerpt):

No, it isn't a false narrative - it is reality.

DACA is not actual law or even a presidential executive order. The DACA program was created through memorandum and can be cancelled in the same way without court interference.

So yes, saying the courts would attempt to stop DACA is a false narrative.

Originally Posted by MW

nntrixie wrote (excerpt):



DACA is not actual law or even a presidential executive order. The DACA program was created through memorandum and can be cancelled in the same way without court interference.

So yes, saying the courts would attempt to stop DACA is a false narrative.

We're supposed to be hoping the courts do stop DACA because if you'll recall the original narrative on DACA, is that it is unconstitutional. In order to stop a program that has been implemented and on-going for 5 years without any serious legal challenge, DACA 2012 was not challenged in a case that got on the docket, you need a basis for the unconstitutionality, and that will need to come from the US Department of Justice. The only other alternative was to let it expire on June 15, with the simultaneous dismissal of the Texas lawsuit which asserted a Court Ruling that DACA 2012 would continue. But the case wasn't dismissed on June 15, it was extended until June 29, and then on June 29, extended again by Texas AG and 9 other states demanding an end to the DACA 2012 program by DOJ and DHS by September 5, or they would amend their lawsuit complaint to include DACA 2012 and proceed on with the lawsuit on an amended basis. The issues of the original Texas lawsuit which was DAPA and Expanded DACA have been resolved by President Trump's orders to end those two programs with Kelly's memo ending them issued on June 15. Now they are tackling the 3rd program, DACA 2012.

Seems to me that the legal issue associated with the DACA 2012 program is the work permit being issued without a corresponding law from Congress authorizing such an issuance to illegal aliens. USCIS during the reign of numerous Presidents for decades have been handing out work permits to illegal aliens. It's a giant shadow immigration program operating outside of direct Congressional authority but is done under the header of prosecutorial discretion and certain discretionary language in US immigration law.

It would be wonderful to end this, not just with DACA work permits, but all executive and bureaucratic procedures and regulations that are enabling this huge bypass of Congressional limitations on immigration with temporary work permits issued by USCIS, because it's not fair to American Workers entitled to these jobs and seats in college or Legal Foreign Workers who waited in line and followed the rules for their right to work and attend college legally in the United States.

In my opinion, we need to advocate for the end of DACA on legal grounds, the unfairness and unlawfulness of issuing work permits to any illegal alien, regardless of how they came, when they came, why they came, or what they've done since they arrived. Our advocacy should be based on the core issue of the Executive Branch issuing any type of temporary work permit not outlined by a Congressional approved visa or green card application. Period.

The broken promise meme isn't working legal theory, because it's not a valid reason to end DACA 2012 when it's under a court order to continue until the Texas lawsuit is resolved or dismissed.

My advice is to attack this on all fronts not against DACA per se, the most popular and most sympathetic of all these little special favor deals made with illegal aliens by USCIS, but on a much broader scale against ALL TEMPORARY WORK PERMITS issued by the USCIS outside of the specific scope of approved immigration controls of the US Congress, i. e. green cards or visas. It's time for all sympathy to be directed to American Workers standing in line, waiting by the phones, checking the mail, checking their email ... for news they've been hired to fill a job opening.

No use of prosecutorial discretion by USCIS/DHS/DOJ should ever involve the issuance of a work permit by the Executive Branch of the United States government, because every single one of them usurps the entire purpose of US immigration law and the whole reason for it which is to control our population and protect American Workers.

GeorgiaPeach has repeatedly pointed out in her great posts on this subject, that the inherent unfairness about DACA is that 800,000 illegal aliens have been given permission to compete with 800,000 young Americans for jobs and seats in college. That is the correct argument against DACA, plain, simple, and spot on. The "broken promise" by a political candidate, isn't going to work on this one to either influence Congress, the Courts or the Public/Voters.

Again, a lawsuit can be filed for any reason - we absolutely have to admit that is the condition of our judicial system.

We also have to admit there are judges whose intent is not to uphold the law, but to create law - law that is detrimental to this country.

We are arguing from a legal and right position - these judges do not need either.

That doesn't mean their rulings will be upheld, but it probably means they won't all be reversed quickly. It doesn't mean our government won't be tied up answering these lawsuits.

Originally Posted by MW

DACA is not actual law or even a presidential executive order. The DACA program was created through memorandum and can be cancelled in the same way without court interference.

So yes, saying the courts would attempt to stop DACA is a false narrative.

Oops, I meant to say that any attempt at stopping the ending of DACA through lawsuit is a false narrative.

Like I said, DACA was never a legislatively produced law that could be challenged, it was a memorandum. Trump or the Secretary of DHS could have ended the program the same way it started, with a memo and without court interference. So the argument that it would have been tied up in the courts is a false narrative, or perhaps some would prefer the phrases straw man argument or red herring.