Thread: Minuteman project..... heavy questions

I live in Arizona and have a bunch of interesting questions about the Minuteman project and the parties involved. Some regarding stories I've read and others I conjured up thinking about worst case-scenarios for the project.

Although the Project's goal may be to document, and assist the BP, there exists the possibility of an international incident.

Of course, a big incident could be swept under the rug by the Administration

The "Project" themselves appear to be walking a tightrope of public opinion and wisely may measure every word of public statements. So I wont ask them directly.


I'll throw them out here, if anybody wants to comment.

Question #1


Rumor I read: Some or most Minutemen will be limited to only carrying handguns, perhaps concealed.


What I think: Common sense, as I see it, would be to arm as heavily as possible(without being reckless).

Possible encounters include heavily armed coyotes/drug smugglers, and/or full squads of Mexican Army soldiers(official or not).

Better have several concealed shooters protecting your fellow minutemen, in case of danger.



Question #2

Could Minutemen volunteers be charged under the Patriot Act using a "liberal" interpretation of its powers?

I ask this because it would be easier for the government to just arrest all the minuteman participants(and charge them as terrorists), then to actually fix the border.




-n

AZJouster,

You pose some interesting questions but I'll leave the answers to someone more qualified than myself.

But I wanted to say "welcome to ALIPAC!"

watchman

Originally Posted by AZJouster

Of course, a big incident could be swept under the rug by the Administration

The "Project" themselves appear to be walking a tightrope of public opinion and wisely may measure every word of public statements. So I wont ask them directly.


I'll throw them out here, if anybody wants to comment.

Question #1


Rumor I read: Some or most Minutemen will be limited to only carrying handguns, perhaps concealed.

Welcome AZJouster:

I think the limitation to hand guns is a good idea. In fact, I'd like to see guns limited even more.

I doubt very seriously the administration would 'sweep an incident under the rug' The worst case scenario for Americans and Immigration Reform movement would be for a violent incident to occur and the next day the President calls a press conference and says.

"This terrible incident has illustrated the need for an improved immigration policy where those coming to work can travel to the US without fear. Therefore I'm calling on the Congress to immediately pass my Guest Worker plan and the Senate to Pass the FTAA so we can avoid any such unfortunate incidents in the future."

The MSM will spin the story as "Vigilante racists kill/injure harmless immigrants" and the wind will be stripped from the sails of the entire IR movement.

W

The best case scenerio would be to have a relatively quiet month with
maximum press coverage of our poor job of border security.
I doubt if Mexico would be stupid enough to have "troops" along
the border. Maybe to keep Mexicans in?

I wish the Minutemen a safe and successful month!

I am not part of that group, but that group has been around, and frankly, the questions are not answerable I would guess. Let me make a point or two...

Carrying a Rifle in your truck is common in that country. And there are actually a lot of good reasons to do so. Where the bad guys use to be excaped prisoners from Arizona and Federal Prisons, the bad guys today are the dope runners, and the 'important people' runner of today.

But I would not think that is happening. I also think that when it does happen, there are a lot of cops in the crowd if not the whole crowd. The Arizona Highway Patrol, for example, are damned fed up with the problem, and this 'highlight' of the problem by the Minute Men is making somebody who can do something about it all, uncomfortable someplace. We seem to have gotten the 2,000 extra Border Patrolmen as a reflection of pressure tactics.. simply showing up does a lot to help the cause and far, far more than anything associated with pistoles and all that that implies.
--------------------------------
I doubt they are carrying guns.. they probably have rifles in thier trucks or cars.

Weapons are probably at post.. they want good publicity and I think they know they are getting it.

Lots of cops watching the processes.. no need for guns.

Lots of Border Patrolmen out there.. no need for guns.

Well, it looks like Jim and his leaders are pulling the line back further from the border for safety. This would give the US Border Patrol plenty of margin to do their job for a change.

I know our agents want to do their job, but they have been ordered to stand down by management.

W

PS: Perhaps the ACLU should change their name to the MCLU (Mexican Civil Liberties Union)

My fear is if anyone incites violence, it will come from south of the border. From what I've read on the minuteman site, he's quite insistant this be a peaceful demonstration. I'm not sure the people south of the border are as well organized and have a lead insisting this be kept civil.

You see MS-13 supposedly threatening to "teach the minutemen a lesson". It appears to be wearing heavily on Jim's mind IMHO after reading the article appearing on this site about Jim. He didn't expect it to get this big.

Also, his site now says he's only accepting volunteers that are current or former LEO's, ham radio operators and pilots with licenses (and a few more) and only then will consider these people. I think he's calling for LEO's because he knows they are well trained to be cool headed in a heated situation.

My prayers for the safety of the minutemen and women (minutepeople?), and like I said, if there's any violence, I suspect it will be from south of the border.

At least this has brought a tremendous amount of interest from MSM. Mr. Gilchrest has done a wonderful job attracting attention to this horrible problem.

I don't think Jim will mind my posting this here for those who have not seen it from his site. I understand along with this diversified group (including Law enforcement) there are I understand a number of retired LEO"s.

THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT
UPDATE
16 March 2005

Dear Americans,

The MinuteMan Project currently has 1,022 volunteers from the following 50 states:

Alabama 5; Alaska 3; Arkansas 10; Arizona 242*; California 275*; Colorado 35; Connecticut 3; Delaware 2; Florida 26; Georgia 15; Hawaii 2; Idaho 3; Illinois 21; Indiana 8; Iowa 5; Kansas 3; Kentucky 8; Louisiana 6; Maine 2; Maryland 2; Massachusetts 7; Michigan 10; Minnesota 8; Mississippi 3; Missouri 8; Montana 1; Nebraska 3; New Hampshire 5; New Jersey 13; Nevada 33*; New Mexico 11*; New York 20; North Carolina 10*; North Dakota 1; Ohio 17; Oklahoma 8; Oregon 13; Pennsylvania 14; Rhode Island 2; South Carolina 4; South Dakota 2; Tennessee 13; Texas 78*; Utah 13; Vermont 1; Virginia 14; Washington 23; West Virginia 2; Wisconsin 5; Wyoming 4; (plus 2 from Canada) *includes 40 pilots with 16 aircraft.

The MMProject has 40% participation from women and minorities.

The minority classifications follow:
32 Native American Indians (Apache, Cherokee, Comanche, Sioux, Blackfoot, and other tribes);
19 American Mexicans; 5 American Armenians; 5 American Russians; 1 American Lebanese; 1 American India (the continent); 1 Asian; 3 American Cubans; 3 American Africans.
In Addition:

5 WHEEL CHAIR BOUND PARAPLEGICS AND 7 AMPUTEES.

17 LEGAL immigrants from 7 countries.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Volunteers for The Minuteman Project include men and women from various political parties and professions: PhDs, university professors, several dozen career members of law enforcement, free-lance journalists and photographers, teachers, engineers, truck drivers, construction tradesmen, firemen, EMTs, geologists, chemists, surgeons and physicians, attorneys, labor union members, students of divinity, taxi drivers, aircraft pilots, three former state-level politicians, long range reconnaissance specialists, computer scientists, and combat veterans of WWII, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.
If YOU, or someone you know, would like to participate in The Minuteman Project, please read the recruiting poster below and respond accordingly.

* * * * * *
To Citizens of the Republic of the United States of America:

I invite you to join me in Tombstone, Arizona from APRIL 1 - 30, 2005 to assist the U. S. Department of Homeland Security by observing and reporting illegal activity on and around the southern border of the United States.

The purpose of this political assembly in Arizona is to protest the refusal of the Congress and the President to protect our borders from illegal immigrants who have not had criminal background checks by, and through, the U.S. Embassy in their home country, thereby creating an imminent danger to all Americans, and creating the dilution of US citizen's voting rights by foreign nationals.

Chris Simcox of Civil Homeland Defense, and the publisher of the Tombstone Tumbleweed newspaper in Tombstone, Arizona has helped protect our borders for FOUR years with only a handful of patriotic volunteers. It is time we provided him with support.

Prelim, I am a MinuteMan HAM op, and video documentarian, and will be there from March 31 (will not be at the border, I just fly into Pheonix), until the 11th, unless the videos really take off, and there is enough call monitarily to keep me there. I am doing this 100% volunteer, no one but myself is outlaying anything for my time. I have spent over 3500 so far (but I spent 2k+ today on video equipment). I will be camping, totally, to keep the costs down.

Sorry for that plug, but I wanted to get a few things straight before answering. NOTE the answers here are MINE. They are NOT MMP answers. However, when questions are asked with are true SOP questions of MMP, then I will answer them as such.

Originally Posted by AZJouster

I live in Arizona and have a bunch of interesting questions about the Minuteman project and the parties involved. Some regarding stories I've read and others I conjured up thinking about worst case-scenarios for the project.

Although the Project's goal may be to document, and assist the BP, there exists the possibility of an international incident.

Of course, a big incident could be swept under the rug by the Administration

The "Project" themselves appear to be walking a tightrope of public opinion and wisely may measure every word of public statements. So I wont ask them directly.


I'll throw them out here, if anybody wants to comment.

Question #1


Rumor I read: Some or most Minutemen will be limited to only carrying handguns, perhaps concealed.


What I think: Common sense, as I see it, would be to arm as heavily as possible(without being reckless).

We have been told (STRONGLY) that handguns are fully acceptable. It is 100% legal in AZ to have "open carry". What that means is sidearms are fully legal. If you have a visible sidearm, and walk into most stores, I believe that is a fully permissible, and legal thing to do. Thus, anyone able to legally carry (ex felons CAN NOT), then they are able to carry. For members who DO have a CCW permit (concealed), they are fully allowed to carry concealed.

There have been strict orders to have NO long guns (rifles, shotguns). This is to keep us from "appearing" to be nothing more than a band a vigilantees. I think it is VERY wise advise.

All MMP members must abide by the rules. If long guns are brought out, the person will be banned from MMP. If a hand gun is taken out of a holster for ANY reason, short of saving your own life, then you will be BANNED from MMP. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Note, I will be carrying my 9 (or possibly both), along with 4 extra clips. With the threats that have been made, I do not want to leave my kids fatherless. NOTE there is a 99.5% chance that my firearms will NOT be removed from the holsters ever, but they will certainly be with me 24/7.

Originally Posted by AZJouster

Possible encounters include heavily armed coyotes/drug smugglers, and/or full squads of Mexican Army soldiers(official or not).

Better have several concealed shooters protecting your fellow minutemen, in case of danger.



Question #2

Could Minutemen volunteers be charged under the Patriot Act using a "liberal" interpretation of its powers?

I ask this because it would be easier for the government to just arrest all the minuteman participants(and charge them as terrorists), then to actually fix the border.

-n

I seriously doubt it. If they did arrest 1000 of us, I think they fear (for VERY good reason), that 100000 would rise up. When there are free people, tyrants have a VERY hard time existing (even though they are active here in this country now).

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Well, it looks like Jim and his leaders are pulling the line back further from the border for safety. This would give the US Border Patrol plenty of margin to do their job for a change.

I know our agents want to do their job, but they have been ordered to stand down by management.

W

PS: Perhaps the ACLU should change their name to the MCLU (Mexican Civil Liberties Union)

Actually, I have heard the modus operandi has changed. It sounds like there will be fewer "stealth" patrols, and more OBVIOUS patrols (to the point of open fires, so the border is lit up). In that circumstance, having a sidearm is not as important.

I am on night duties, and that is when most of the problems could occur. However, there has been SO much PR about this, that I think most coyotees and drug runners will simply travel 30 or 40 miles east or west and simply avoid this section.