Thread: NO LINKS TO GRASSFIRE ALLOWED AT ALIPAC

Geoff,

Welcome and don't be ashamed. Grassfire took a lot of us. They looked legit. Read ALIPAC's post on this group:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-27809-grassfire.html

We all have to watch out for each other, and we do so!
There is a lot of info on this site...check out the posts and the archives.

Again, welcome!

Sneaky rat finks.

Also,

Since Grassfire used our signatures to rah rah for Senators Cornyn and Kyle, these two senators voted YES for Cloture on S. 2611 knowing it would pass if they voted yea on Cloture (blocking fillabuster) and then voted NO on the passage vote.

Details
http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-29492.html

This way those two, that face reelection this year, can try to trick everyone involved.

They will tell the Open Borders Lobby they voted for Cloture to support them and then tell the rest of us Americans they voted No against the bill.

Sneaky and underhanded.

W

Hi W.

Welcome back!

Shame on them.

Thanks again for all your hard work, W! It's so vital to our nation.

bttt

Okay, there seems to be some confusion and misdirection here, so let's get things straight. First of all, the non-RINO Senator from Arizona is Jon Kyl (our other Senator is the RINO John McCain). His name is not "Kyle" so let's get that straight right away and not make that mistake again.

Next, let's talk about the bill that Senators Kyl and Cornyn (from Texas) introduced. I heard it described some time ago, and I don't have a link to the actual bill, but as I recall it required that we close our borders completely before anything else was done. After the border was closed, there was an internal enforcement program to make sure that companies did not hire illegals. And after all that was accomplished, there was a guest worker program.

I've heard Senator Kyl on several radio talk shows, talking about his propsed bill, and he stands firm on his position that any guest workers cannot come from within the US. They must make their application from whatever foreign country that they call home. And he also stands firm on his position that there should be no connection between a guest worker program and US citizenship. To me, this seems like a reasonable approach.

Think of it this way - we pass a law that says people from other countries can come to the US and work temporarily. They have a set entry date and a required exit date when they must return to their country of origin. Initially there will be a large number of jobs to attract these legal workers. They will come here and pick crops or design buildings or whatever they are hired to do, and when they are done they will go back home. As soon as the guest workers begin to fill the workforce, the illegals will be pushed out and they will not be able to work anywhere. They will have to return to their home countries and apply to be guest workers, or else they will be unemployed.

I don't know anything about grassfire, whatever that is, but is the guest worker program so hard to understand? If implemented properly, it could force every illegal in the US to leave, and that sounds like a good thing to me.

Tarantulas,

We already have several Guest Worker Programs and due to the non enforcement of our laws many of those "guests' are staying permanently.

The Cornyn / Kyle bill has a lot of enforcement jargon in it, but then states that illegal aliens can cross the border to Mexico, fill out some forms and come right back. Walla! There goes your illegal immigration problem. They are all LEGAL poof! There goes the USA too!

That bill also called for a mandatory biometric Social Security card ID for all Americans.

Bad bill.

No amnesty, no guest worker, illegals go home! It is the ONLY way we can stop millions more from coming illegally.

No army and no wall will stop them unless we send them running out instead of in.

W

I know this is a bit of a tangent, but since I don't really have anything to add about the organization described in this thread, do you think I can say something about Senator Kyl?

My take is that Kyl-despite his vacillation-is, on balance, a force for good as far as the issue of illegal immigration is concerned. Yes, he sided with McCain-and all of the other open borders apologists-on the Arizona corollary to Prop. 187. However, this stance has to be weighed with all of the other actions he has take to reduce illegal immigration.

He voted against the Hagel-Martinez amnesty. Plus, I believe he voted against cloture, unlike Senator Sessions, whom National Review believes should be given an award for his supposedly tough stance.

Take a look at his record, which-as I have said-is far from perfect, but which is praiseworthy, considering our weak position in that legislative body.

Numbers USA, an organization whose credibility on this issue is beyond reproach, gives him good grades:

http://profiles.numbersusa.com/improfil ... Z&VIPID=35

As does Americans For Better Immigration:

http://grades.betterimmigration.com/tes ... Z&VIPID=35

Again, we should be realistic.

That doesn't mean we should excuse bad behavior, but when there are so many other incumbent U.S. Senators who are so much worse-and deserve our obloquy so much more-do you really think focusing on Kyl is the best allocation of resources for the anti-illegal immigration movement?

Just my 2 cents.

By the way, I completely agree that the Cornyn-Kyl bill was misguided-at the very least-and should never be enacted. I also think the concept of a biometric identification card should be opposed vehemently. However, I don't think that bill should negate all of the good work Senator Kyl has done over the course of his 12 year tenure in the United States Senate.

Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Tarantulas,

We already have several Guest Worker Programs and due to the non enforcement of our laws many of those "guests' are staying permanently.

The Cornyn / Kyle bill has a lot of enforcement jargon in it, but then states that illegal aliens can cross the border to Mexico, fill out some forms and come right back. Walla! There goes your illegal immigration problem. They are all LEGAL poof! There goes the USA too!

That bill also called for a mandatory biometric Social Security card ID for all Americans.

Bad bill.

No amnesty, no guest worker, illegals go home! It is the ONLY way we can stop millions more from coming illegally.

No army and no wall will stop them unless we send them running out instead of in.

W

This is what happens when rumors get started. It doesn't take long before no one knows the truth. So let's look at the bill. It's called the "Comprehensive Enforcement and Immigration Reform Act of 2005," and it's a 134-page Adobe Acrobat document.

Page 4 - Requires at least 250 new Border Patrol agents every year from 2006-2010, and 25 million dollars every year to transport aliens (presumably back to their home countries).

Page 5 - Appropriates 500 million dollars a year from 2006-2010 to buy UAVs, cameras, poles, sensors, and other high tech stuff to control the border. Also appropriates another 500 million dollars a year from 2006-2010 to build roads, vehicle barriers, and facilities along the border.

Page 6 - Appropriates 10 million dollars a year from 2006-2010 to implement "expedited removal procedures" at the southern border. This probably puts an end to the "catch and release" they've been doing.

Page 7 - Appropriates 5 million dollars a year from 2006-2010 to train border protection officers in document fraud detection, and gives them access to a forensic document laboratory.

Page 8 - Requires every document issued by Homeland Security that identifies aliens to be machine-readable, tamper-resistant, and to incorporate a biometric identifier.

Page 9 - Any alien who refuses to provide biometric data can't enter the country. And any alien leaving the country has to provide biometric data too.

I'll skip the detailed discussion of interior enforcement information since we agree that it exists. Basically, there's a heavy crackdown on drug smuggling, violent crimes, and gang activity by illegals, especially if they've been ordered to leave the country previously. It removes judicial review of visa revocations and adds 200 Homeland Security investigators, 100 immigration attorneys, 50 "litigation attorneys," and 50 immigration judges every year from 2006 to 2010. It says that State and local law enforcement have inherent authority to "investigate, identify, apprehend, arrest, detain, or transfer to Federal custody aliens in the United States." It says that any "statute, policy, or practice" that prohibits local law enforcement from enforcing Federal immigration law or cooperating with Federal law enforcement is in violation of the 1996 Illegal Immigration Reform act. It reimburses local law enforcement for providing information to Homeland Security, for detaining illegals and transporting them to the Feds, and for any court costs.

Page 55 - Requires the Social Security Administration to issue only machine-readable, tamper-resistant Social Security cards. It also requires the SSA not to issue a replacement card unless there's a good reason for it. It doesn't issue new Social Security cards to all Americans and there is no biometric data required on the card.

Page 74 - Establishes a "nonimmigrant temporary worker" program.

Page 76 - Establishes the rules for admission of temporary workers to the US. Requires proof that the alien can perform the work, proof that the alien has a job offer, a $500 fee for processing the application, a medical exam including immunization records, a criminal background check, a waiver of judicial appeal of immigration status and any right to contest a removal action.

Page 81 - Establishes that the period of admission under the program is two years. It can't be extended, the alien can't reenter the country for a year after he leaves, and the total admission period for the program can't exceed six years. In other words, they can work for three 2-year stays and then they can't ever come back again. There's a provision for "seasonal workers" who spend less than 6 months of the year here (picking crops, presumably), and for aliens who commute to work in the US from a foreign country.

Page 83 - Requires each temporary worker to maintain a residence in his home country that he has no intention of abandoning, and requires him to be present in his home country for at least 7 days in a row every year (that's a good idea since it requires them to leave and return annually so they'll have to go through the biometric ID procedure).

Page 88 - Says that a spouse or child of a temporary worker can only enter the country for a period of 30 days if they're not a temporary worker too.

Page 94 - Allows an illegal to leave the US and apply for admission. This is called "Deferred Mandatory Departure" and means that the illegal has 5 years to get his affairs in order, because he has to go back home after that. He has to meet all the other requirements for entry, and isn't eligible if he was ever issued a "Notice to Appear." I think this means that he disregarded the "catch and release" document issued to Other Than Mexicans at the border. He has to be admissible under the previous requirements, has to undergo a medical exam and background check, waives any right to judicial or legal review of entry eligibility or to contest any removal action, and undergoes biometric identification. If they don't submit an application for this program within 6 months of the bill's enactment, they're ineligible for the program. They can be in the program for 5 years and then they have to leave the country. If they don't leave the country before the 5 years is up, they can't come back for 10 years. The spouse or child of an alien in the program is subject to the program too. Anyway, this part doesn't mean that he "fills out some forms and comes right back."

If the illegals want to stay in this country, they have to leave and go through the entry requirements, which starts the clock ticking for their ultimate departure. If they don't enter the program, no employer will ever hire them because of the heavy penalties for those that do. And if they're not in the program, any police officer in the country can arrest them without financial impact to their department. I think this is a good bill, and I think it deserves support from anyone who is interested in getting rid of the illegal alien problems in this country.