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  1. #11
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vistalad View Post
    IMO there is an argument for using affirmative action, to get something started. Where the problems come is when the people who benefit from reverse discrimination begin to say that there must be quotas.

    Quotas are sometimes describes as "goals," but if the goals aren't met, the people who demanded them will start yelling "Ism."

    One thing which *might* work is to tell the people who are receiving benefits from reverse discrimination that they will receive those benefits for a time certain. And that during that time they should make it there business to tell others like them that a door which was closed is now open.

    When goals are permitted to morph quotas, we're looking at a new racism.
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    I would support ending the Affirmative Action program during any period that we have a Moratorium on Immigration and maintained a well-funded unit to monitor and prosecute institutional racism along with gender and age discrimination. I'm convinced massive immigration has been the core problem that has defeated almost all civil rights objectives related to black Americans since the 1980's.

    What employers and yes even colleges and universities have done is replace the pool of jobs and spots that would have otherwise gone to black Americans with Hispanic imports. It's the only explanation for why an employer would choose to hire foreign workers, most of them Caucasian Hispanics who can't speak English, who are less educated, with fewer skills and abilities and who have no US work history or culture/standards appreciation over Black citizens who are American and speak English, are better educated, have more skills, abilities, US work history and appreciate our culture and standards.

    Something to think about and work on. Equality means without preference, so I totally understand why so many people are upset with Affirmative Action. Unfortunately, Affirmative Action hasn't worked well for black Americans, they've been the group that benefited the least from it. Another sad irony of the original racism Affirmative Action was designed to resolve, like criminals, racists find a new way to cheat those they want to keep down, and immigration has been one of their new vehicles to do so.
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  2. #12
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinssdad View Post
    Hey, my American ancestors got here after the civil war so they never owned slaves. Punishing the innocent is not the American way!
    I've had ancestors here since before the Revolutionary War and have found no record of any being slave owners. I even had relatives that fought for the CSA in the Civil War but can't find where any of them owned slaves either. The majority of Americans between the 1600's and the end of slavery never owned a slave!

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    I've had ancestors here since before the Revolutionary War and have found no record of any being slave owners. I even had relatives that fought for the CSA in the Civil War but can't find where any of them owned slaves either. The majority of Americans between the 1600's and the end of slavery never owned a slave!
    It seems that this thread proves that the Supreme Court messed this call up, as I always believed not a majority of Americans had slaves. Again, Dad always said that there is no justice in court.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    I've had ancestors here since before the Revolutionary War and have found no record of any being slave owners. I even had relatives that fought for the CSA in the Civil War but can't find where any of them owned slaves either. The majority of Americans between the 1600's and the end of slavery never owned a slave!
    A little known fact is that only 6% of the US population owned slaves at the start of the Civil War, with 99% of them in the South. Only 1/3 of the families in the South owned 1 or more slaves. Which has always raised the question in my mind as to why did all the people of the South secede from the Union and fight the bloodiest war ever fought by Americans to protect 6% of its population that owned slaves? Why would the 94% who didn't own slaves try to perpetuate such a horrible practice for this small elite group that did?

    I've asked this question many many times and only 1 person on another blog would give the reason, and according to him, it was because the 94% still hoped they would own a slave some day and didn't want to lose the opportunity.
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    Judy, I am no expert but Cotton was the major export first for USA, then the confederacy after the secession. We are familiar with "follow the money." Producing cotton was very labor intensive especially prior to the gin invention. My opinion is that this may have played huge in the why of slavery, and that other 94% without slaves just understood which side of their bread the butter was on. I'm not implying that the other previous suggestion is wrong.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevinssdad View Post
    Judy, I am no expert but Cotton was the major export first for USA, then the confederacy after the secession. We are familiar with "follow the money." Producing cotton was very labor intensive especially prior to the gin invention. My opinion is that this may have played huge in the why of slavery, and that other 94% without slaves just understood which side of their bread the butter was on. I'm not implying that the other previous suggestion is wrong.
    Well, ironically, the cotton gin invention actually increased the demand for hand-picked cotton and some claim was responsible for the growth of slavery. The gin removed the seeds so quickly, that now you could mass produce the cotton cloth much more quickly at a much lower cost, so now you needed more cotton hand-picked faster to feed the new mass production system that was meeting the new demand for the now affordable cotton. This threw our founders a huge curve ball because when our Constitution was written they expected slavery to die on its own through the states to conform with our Constitution and as provided in the Constitution, the federal government would ban the importation of slaves after 1808 which it did, and as planned, slavery was directly banned by most of the Northern states straightaway under different plans, some graduated, some direct. But in the South and in some of the Border States, due to the cotton gin, it went in the opposite direction and mushroomed from around 700,000 slaves in the South before the invention of the cotton gin in 1793 to almost 4 million by 1860 including the border states of Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware.

    Missouri tried 5 times through Constitutional Convention to abolish slavery in Missouri but always came up short on the votes over the issue of compensation to owners, but finally succeeded with the Fifth Session when 2/3 of its members were Radical Republicans, and did so without compensation to the slave owners on January 6, 1865. When news from St. Louis where the convention was held was sent back by horseback rider to the State Capitol in Jefferson City where all legislators were nervously awaiting the news, when the news arrived, there was an eruption of joy and elation that this horrible practice would no longer be part of their State. Most Missourians were never happy with being admitted to the Union as a Slave State, part of the Missouri Compromise of 1820, and the slavery it had was imported from growers and slave owners from southern states, primarily Georgia, who moved in and brought their slaves with them and the practice grew from there. Missouri had the Mississippi Delta area which was ripe for cotton cultivation as were some areas along the Missouri River with the rivers to transport it.

    It was an amazing time in our history, the epitome of the best of times and the worst of times. President Grant when he was General described slavery as a "peculiar institution". I think it was most peculiar in the sense of its peculiar effect on those involved with or surrounded by it and how it changed people from who they would have otherwise been had slavery not existed in our country. In fact, I think we're still dealing with some of those changes that have been passed down through the ages which is why some people still view blacks in certain disparaging ways while others don't, so it's been a longstanding tragedy on many levels.

    I wish we could just snap our fingers and make it right, but it's clear, we've still got quite a ways to go.

    On the bright side, the work we do here at ALIPAC fighting illegal and excess legal immigration whose front-line victims are black Americans is in my view some of the most important civil rights work being done in our country today.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member MontereySherry's Avatar
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    I would suggest more Americans should actually study their genealogy. Being at least a 12th generation American I have learned more about this country and our ancestors studying genealogy then I ever learned in school. The fact is you cannot in this country after all these generations tell the ethnic origins of any so called white person by the color of their skin. You also cannot decide who owned slaves by the color of their skin. White as well as people of color have owned slaves in this countries history just as well as white people as well as people of color have been slaves.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontereySherry View Post
    I would suggest more Americans should actually study their genealogy. Being at least a 12th generation American I have learned more about this country and our ancestors studying genealogy then I ever learned in school. The fact is you cannot in this country after all these generations tell the ethnic origins of any so called white person by the color of their skin. You also cannot decide who owned slaves by the color of their skin. White as well as people of color have owned slaves in this countries history just as well as white people as well as people of color have been slaves.
    That is so true! Also, I learned in recent years something that I never knew before which was at least the Cherokee Nation had black slaves and there were many black slaves on the Trail of Tears with them, about 2,000 or so.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member MontereySherry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    That is so true! Also, I learned in recent years something that I never knew before which was at least the Cherokee Nation had black slaves and there were many black slaves on the Trail of Tears with them, about 2,000 or so.
    Yes Cherokee's had black slaves, which are listed on the Indian Rolls as "Freedmen".



  10. #20
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Lincoln didn't sign the Emancipation Proclamation until 1863, two years into the Civil War and his own statements don't seem to support ending slavery as the root cause of the Civil War




    There were financial issues that placed the North and South at odds. This sounds familiar doesn't it?

    Tariffs and the American Civil War


    Between the years 1800 and 1860, arguments between the North and South grew more intense. One of the main quarrels was about taxes paid on foreign goods: this tax was referred to as a tariff. Southerners believed that these tariffs were unfair and aimed toward them because they imported a wider variety of goods compared to the North's imports (see Sectionalism and Nullification Crisis). Taxes were also levied on many Southern exports, an expense that was not always applied to Northern goods of equal value; an awkward economic structure allowed states and private transportation companies to accomplish this. Consequently, this affected Southern banks because they found themselves paying higher interest rates on loans made with banks in the North. The situation grew worse after several "panics", including one in 1857 that affected more Northern banks than Southern banks. Southern financiers found themselves burdened with high payments just to save Northern banks that had suffered financial losses through poor investments.



    - See more at: http://thomaslegion.net/tariffsandth....xUGNkehZ.dpuf

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