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  1. #1
    Senior Member AirborneSapper7's Avatar
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    Should States Secede Now? (UPDATED) BIG question for Europeans is Why shouldn't you

    Sunday, November 11, 2012

    Should the States Secede Now? (UPDATED)

    Posted by Charleston Voice

    The BIG question for Europeans is Why shouldn't you secede from the Eurozone!

    Published by Charleston Voice, Bill Rummel, Editor 06.28.12

    For more than a century millions upon millions of Americans have spent their earnings (and earnings of others) to special interest groups and non-profit foundations. The amounts have comfortably been in the billions of dollars for your pet peeve and issues.


    CHARLESTON, SC- ChasVoice, 06.28.12


    Unlike our ancestors decades ago we think we've been lobbying our congressman and chosen political party with our time and money. Our ancestors weren't fooled right away, it took a while for them to realize their federal government could be the agent of plunder for themselves.

    Whether it's been Constitutional or not has not mattered to our elected. I think it might have been Lew Rockwell who said "our federal government now is but one political body with two heads". Any new party would just be bought-off likewise, and just become another head. Liberty is embellished in the mind and soul, not in a political banner.

    You've fought federal gun control, federal education, the unlawful income tax and the 16th Amendment, federal land grabs, state national guards in undeclared conflicts, abortion, Social Security, Federal Reserve, United Nations treaties, and many, many more liberty-robbing oppressions from Washington too numerous to mention. And now we've got federal health care to zap us again for more energy drain.

    If "only congress shall make laws" why is it we have permitted congress, the Supreme Court and Executive Branches, and not to be left out, our hundreds of federal agencies to make their own rules ("statutes")? You know the answer to that question. Because they were bought out from under us. Washington is corrupted through and through in every fiber by a Corporatist state.

    If you remain a 'single issue patriot' , we're not going to make it. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda won't cut it as an afterthought. Look at the big picture by avoiding societal conflicts engineered by Washington.

    The US southern states have been there, done that all before. Southern states of that era were predominantly Jeffersonian Democrats. The Republican-controlled congress of the 1860s levied discriminatory taxes on the southern agrarian states and punishing protective tariffs for northern manufacturers on competing importers. That South Carolina's firing on Fort Sumter started the Civil War is a bold-faced lie. That 'historical' account is absurd to the extreme. SC had already seceded and was now under the Confederate States of America.

    They were now a foreign country. Fort Sumter had been ceded to the United States by SC, but only as a member of the United States. Not only did Washington not return the island to SC, but it took act of war action by re-inforcing it with additional Union troops stowed away on the warship, Star of the West! An early 'false flag' event of our federal government!

    Okay, that's your dose of US Civil War history for now. We are a refugee ourselves from the northern states, living pleasantly in the Occupied South, but still the theft of our rights from Washington goes on unabated.

    Is secession called for again? Absolutely no!... Yet. [SEE Appendage Below]

    All the states have a sledgehammer tool of all sledgehammers in freedom's quiver. It must be taken out from its repository and re-slung into the bow. It's known as NULLIFICATION. Just as state secession is not unlawful, neither is it for a sovereign state to exert its authority by mandate for the 10th Amendment. This article was intended by our framers to prohibit the central government by exercising any power not specifically granted to it. But, you knew that already.

    Familiarize yourself with Nullification, it's our lifeline to rescuing our stolen liberties. Don't you just love it when the MSM trots out their "constitutional scholars" to their TV audiences for definitive clarification! You are the scholars here, not the appointed or even the elected. They have a sworn oath of office to you!

    Let's not be like a Greece and the euro. Iceland was right - get the hell out! If we're going down the tube, let's go down by keeping corruption local at the state level!

    Appended 11/7/12:
    Secede Now?
    Hey y'all, get ready world, we
    got us another Lincoln tyrant
    alright, fer shur! Heah?
    Not quite. Your elected state representatives have not heard from you. Furthermore, many have already compromised their principles for their own 'greater good'. Washington would collapse without having your economic production to feed from. Force by arms would be the fedgov's response to ensure your enslavement prevails. State secession edicts will fail without an electorate suitably informed on our Constitution. To attempt to secede without otherwise being sufficiently informed on our Rule of Law will result in only a new government under a different tyrant. The southern states were an informed electorate, but failed because they failed to see that the Republican Party would not abide by Constitutional law and simply let the South go its own way.

    Our state national guards are overseas. They must be brought home to resume the intended role of state militias, not an oppressive arm of the fedgov. When the German field commander at the Battle of the Bulge alarmingly came to notice all his tank crews were disembarking their tanks through the turrets and walking wearily to the rear, he demanded from a soldier, "Where do you think you're going soldier!"

    "We're going home, sir", was his reply. And, so it came to be.

    Here's the kicker that will push most of the "constitutionalists" and "states rights" good folks over the cliff: "What will you use for money to rebuild your new country?" Be reminded that our Constitution calls for the only lawful money to be gold or silver coin. Less than 1% of Americans have saved any. How do you build a solid foundation for liberty without honest money?

    Are you one of the 1%? If not a prepper with goods to trade, a farmer, or a trades skill, how will you live? If you want to be a sturdy constitutionalist then you'll have to do your own nation re-building without welfare. Something to ponder now why you still have time (maybe), huh? Don't 'beggar thy neighbor' for a handout, or be a burden to family and friends who went without now to ensure they could save when the need to survive took precedent over their amusements.
    ~~~~
    "A thief is more moral than a congressman; when a thief steals your money, he doesn't demand you thank him." ~ Walter Williams


    Sources:
    Nullification: Tom Woods
    Books to Die For
    States Standing for State Sovereignty



    Charleston Voice: Should the States Secede Now? (UPDATED)
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  2. #2
    Senior Member HAPPY2BME's Avatar
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  3. #3
    Senior Member HAPPY2BME's Avatar
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    This Continental United States is now easily disbanded by being countries within countries, and having completely opposing and diametrical cultures, standards, and future goals.

    California, New York, Florida, Texas, and each of the large populated states could easily be larger than the majority of European and Asian countries, each having their own sovereigns, and each having complete direct and absolute final decision on their own divine destinies.

    Most of these states are commandeered with Godless, socialist, communists who if allowed to continue on the current path will (in the near term) completely ruin what is left of the United States of America proper by driving it straight into the historical dustbins of the Soviet Union, Napoleon's France, and Cesar's Rome.

    Secession is easily a realistic, viable option for any state desiring self-preservation from all of the above ruined and lifeless cadavers of nations that were devoured by traitors from within and cancerous hordes of foreign tongues and murderously hostile invaders from without.
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    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Nullification Goes Mainstream; States Defy Washington on Drugs and Health Care
    by John Rubino on November 9, 2012 · 16 comments

    As the federal government gradually assimilates the rest of the country, a few states have begun to fight back. From the Kansas City Star:

    No state-run health insurance exchanges in Missouri or Kansas

    Missouri will be unable to implement a key provision of federal health care law, Gov.Jay Nixon announced Thursday.
    Meantime, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownbacksays he won’t support an application from Insurance Commissioner Sandy Praeger to establish a state-federal health insurance marketplace.

    That means it will be up to the federal government to establish health insurance exchanges in Missouri and Kansas. The exchanges are designed to be online marketplaces where individuals and small businesses can compare and buy private insurance plans.

    As part of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, the states face a Nov. 16 deadline to notify the federal government if they want to run their own insurance exchange. They must be open for business by 2014. When states do not open their own, the federal government will step in and set up an exchange.

    “Obamacare,” Brownback said in a news release, “is an overreach by Washington and (Kansans) have rejected the state’s participation. … We will not benefit from it and implementing it could cost Kansas taxpayers millions of dollars.”
    This kind of rebellion has deep historical roots. From the American Thinker blog:

    The Nullification Movement
    One thing overlooked in the uproar surrounding the election is the nullification of federal narcotics law in Washington state and Colorado. If these laws are allowed to stand without challenge from Eric Holder’s Justice Department, then the green light is on for nullifying any federal law — including ObamaCare.

    Nullification is based upon the principle that is best described in the words of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence:

    “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

    This simple statement asserts that no government may impose its will upon the people without their consent and that if the people make it known that they do not consent then the imposition is nullified. The very first time that a nullification resolution was passed in our history was the Kentucky Resolutions of 1798 to nullify the Alien and Sedition acts. The author of this resolution was Thomas Jefferson, who had to write the resolution in secret because if it were known that he was opposed to these acts, he would have been imprisoned, even though he was vice president at the time.

    Jefferson had help from another of the founding fathers, James Madison. Madison wrote the Virginia Resolution, which nullified the Alien and Seditions Acts in Virginia. These nullification resolutions were never tested in court since in the next presidential election Jefferson became president, repealed the laws and pardoned all those who had been imprisoned under the Alien and Seditions acts. The idea of nullification became popular again in the decade leading up to the War Between the States as many northern states nullified fugitive slave laws.

    Now two western states are using the principle of nullification against federal narcotics laws to legalize marijuana for recreational use. Both Colorado and Washington had legalization measures on the ballot, and the measures passed. But Kevin Sabet, the former Obama administration’s drug czar, stated:

    “This is a symbolic victory for advocates, but it will be short-lived. They are facing an uphill battle with implementing this, in the face of presidential opposition and in the face of federal enforcement opposition.”

    But as of yet, agents from the Drug Enforcement Agency have not made a show of force by kicking in the doors of local head shops and hauling shopkeepers off to jail.

    If the federal government does take action, it will likely be via lawsuit. They will argue the Supremacy Clause of the constitution. But the Supremacy Clause is not a slam dunk as some would have you think. In Federalist Paper #46 titled, “The Influence of the State and Federal Governments Compared,” Madison comments on the idea of supremacy:

    These gentlemen must here be reminded of their error. They must be told that the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone….”

    Ultimately, if the federal government loses, then nullification will be used to do away with many overreaching federal laws, such as the Endangered Species Act, which has shut down agriculture in California, or to the Clean Air Act, which threatens to cause rolling blackouts across the nation.

    But Colorado and Washington are not alone in the nullification movement; six other states are challenging federal law. Alabama, Montana, and Wyoming all passed measures guaranteeing health-care freedom, and Massachusetts approved a measure to legalize marijuana for medicinal use.

    Last spring, Virginia passed legislation prohibiting state and local agencies from cooperating with any federal attempt to exercise indefinite detention without due process under the National Defense Authorization Act.

    Idaho’s Governor, C.L. “Butch” Otter, signed the Health Freedom Act into law which essentially nullifies the Affordable Care Act.

    The nullification movement is alive and well, and growing exponentially, and as a result the beltway bandits may see their power greatly diminished.
    Some thoughts

    Most non-libertarians will like some of these nullification moves and abhor others. Conservatives hate the idea of legal weed, for instance, and liberals can’t tolerate states running their own health care systems. In other words, both sides of the current US political establishment are all for a big, intrusive central government as long as it serves their ends, but dead set against it when it serves their ideological opponents. This philosophical, um, flexibility is what has allowed Washington to grow so steadily. When republicans are in charge, the powers of the federal police state grow. When democrats take over, the welfare state expands. Neither has the political capital to undo the other’s expansion, so federal power continues to metastasize.

    But now this process has begun to work in reverse. Liberal states are trying to push the feds out of the realms of drugs and sexual behavior, while conservative states are trying to reassert their dominance in economics. The result might be an irregular but steady erosion of federal power.

    Very few dictators go down without a fight, however, so Washington might decide to make an example of rebellious states by asserting federal supremacy in the courts and then backing up favorable rulings with legal sanctions. Will it succeed or backfire? Who knows, but it will almost certainly energize the libertarian movement that Ron Paul helped create – which would be both educational and entertaining. So by all means, let nullification debate begin.

    By the way, the godfather of the nullification movement is Thomas Woods. His book on the subject is here.
    Nullification Goes Mainstream; States Defy Washington on Drugs and Health Care

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