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  1. #1

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    So you think Hugo Chavez is actually okay? Check these out..

    A little while ago I got into a war over whether or not Hugo Chavez was a benevolent, Democratically elected leader and should be lauded as a hero in the face of our horrible Democratically elected George W. Bush.

    At least you aren't going to be forced to have Bush until 2030:

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005- ... 887865.htm


    "The legislation would be revolutionary and would ensure that Chavez remains in power not just till 2021, but till 2030, Maduro said at a ceremony celebrating the victory of pro-government deputies in Sunday's elections."

    Yeah, that sounds like a Democracy to me!

    Note the "revolutionary" in that. One need only to look to Castro's "revolutionary" government and see that it's a Chinese news link to know what that means!

    Then there's this:

    http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/ ... 0192.shtml

    If you bother to read this, you'll read that the NYT and just about every other mainstream media outlet wants you to support a fascist dictator out of nothing more than hatred for Bush.

    To wit:

    "President Bush's troubles trailed him to an international summit meeting [in Argentina] on Friday as anti-Bush protesters turned violent just blocks from the gathering site, and Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's fiery populist leader, rallied a soccer stadium filled with at least 25,000 people against the United States.

    First of all, it wasn't an international summit, New York Times. If anything it was a regional summit. And President Bush's troubles didn't trail him to Argentina; the pain-in-the-butt press corps trailed him there to harass him about the outing of a non-covert, political operative in the CIA, in the most bogus political scandal since Truman fired MacArthur."

    My wife is "fiery". Chavez is a power hungry animal. Oh, and Bush is "weak" in the face of this third world banana-boat commando, too.

    I'll end with this one, for now:

    http://www.reaganreview.com/russin006.html

    "Chavez spent 17 years in the military, reaching his highest ranking at lieutenant colonel. In 1992, he was sent to prison for two years after creating a coup d’état, and founded the Movement for the Fifth Republic in 1994. When he ran in 1998, he was elected by the poor and pledged to end poverty and government corruption. Imagine someone, say Ralph Nader, starting a revolution, creating a new third party and then getting elected with 56 percent of the vote. Not going to happen in the United States."

    In other words, vote for him or else, ala Hussein, Castro, Jong-Il, etc.

    I don't support casting our pearls to the Third World swine of certain countries south of the border through FTA's, but I have enough sense not to support this guy either!

    Bring it on. You know who you are.

    God Bless Democracy.

  2. #2

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    just for fun

    I would remind people that our own revolution was in no way "democratic".
    Surveys of the American colonies placed the tories as the clear majoraty in terms of numbers in their support of the crown. Their land owning leaders were the force behind revolution, especially down south. New England certainly was a more grass roots motivation.

    however, as Andrew Jackson would say later, "One Man with Conviction, is a Majoraty"

    Chavez, no matter what anyone thinks of him, has all of that.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I like the way Chavez is standing up against the FTAA which I think is bad for America because it ends American Sovereignty and transfers all our powers to the rule of the World Trade Organization.

    A few other countries have also stood up against the FTAA, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay.

    Farmers in South Korea protested the APEC Free Trade Agreement which is the Asian-Pacific Rim free trade agreement with the United States the Wackident was pushing on his last Buzz through Asia before Thanksgiving.

    Under WTO rule, it really doesn't matter how long a President remains in power since he won't have any representative powers to wield on behalf of his people if Bush completes his FTA Agenda Worldwide before 2008 as I expect he will unless we stop him.

    Bush has already signed 38 into law covering almost 100 countries at this point. His goal is to link the US to the entire Globe so that all trade, commerce, business between the US and other nations is governed by the World Trade Organization rather than our US Congress and US Supreme Court.

    I'll be interested in seeing the actual legislation the Venezuelans introduce concerning extending term limits of their President such that Chavez could remain in power until 2030. I would like to see if it is a single 25 year term or a cap on the existing 6 year terms of 4 more. It wasn't until after Roosevelt who was elected to 4 terms that Amendment 22 was passed limiting term limits of Presidents in the US to 2 four year terms....which is quite enough in my opinion. I'm ready to support a change to 1.

    Venezuelans would be wise to limit theirs to less than what appears to be proposed by Chavez, but they would know best their situation.

    There are many nations suffering bad leadership today including the United States.

    Chavez has thus far been in the news for:

    1) Calling Vicente Fox a Bush Puppy

    2) When asked telling reporters that Bush had not said hi to him during the summit in Argentina and then suggesting maybe he might walk up behind Bush and say "boo?"...if was right before halloween.

    3) Protesting Bush and the FTAA during the summit

    4) Making a deal with Castro to exchange low cost oil to help Cuba with its economic development for Cuban Doctors to help staff new hospitals Chavez is building in Venezuela; giving his military a raise; building schools and hospitals.

    5) Selling heating oil to poor Americans at a 40% discount so they will have heat this winter

    6) Being the target of a Pat Robertson 700 Club suggestion "why don't we just assassinate the guy" television program where Pat added "I think the oil would keep flowing".

    Venezuela didn't suddenly become poor under Chavez. It was poor before Chavez.

    Maybe we need to do some more research on Venezuela. This country appears to have become a "nation of interest" under Chavez.
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  4. #4

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    5th

    5th largest petroleum producer on the earth.

    Extremely significant is its geography, oil being what it is, moving 320,000 plus tons of it by boat is tiresome and risky. The shorter the trip the better.

    So Venzuelas' oil is absolutely essential to the east coast of the US, the proximity is convenient and provides significant cost savings, in time, and money.

    What would New Jersey be without it? Goes the same for you Carolinians, New Yorkers, New Englanders, Florida, and so on.

    Chavez is a player, just not on our team. Team America, are you on it? Do you like the Captain and how he plays you in the game? Go team.

    cheers glenn

  5. #5
    Senior Member JuniusJnr's Avatar
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    But if their election laws say the guy stays in office for that many years, then that is how it is. If we had a human being in this country willing to sit in the President's chair, we might have such as law as well. Unfortunately we come up with one swindler after another to run for president and the more the decent people see, the less they want to run.

    As for Chavez being a "nice guy" : heh heh heh
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  6. #6

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    alive

    In the game for big oil with masters of the universe control freaks, the fact he is still alive speaks volumes. He has an organization, and it knows how not to play nice as well as anyone. g

    "No permanent friends, no permanent enemies, only permanent self interest" my International Relations prof, former General Douglas Kinnard.

  7. #7

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    I'll be interested in seeing the actual legislation the Venezuelans introduce concerning extending term limits of their President such that Chavez could remain in power until 2030.
    You're missing the point. The "Venezuelans" won't have the option of enacting "legislation". Venezuela is a Democracy in name only, like the Chinese and North Koreans.

    That's why this is happening:

    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nat ... -headlines

    I think the best way to deal with illegal immigration from Venezuela would be to remove Chavez from power. That's not going to happen. Kim Jong-Il will be gone first. If this is a Democracy, why is this particular quote the case:

    Those who are leaving fear their country is going the way of Cuba, with which Chavez has close ties.
    I'm willing to bet that Castro and Chavez have more than a little in common.

  8. #8
    Senior Member JuniusJnr's Avatar
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    Is the USA anything other than a democracy in name only? What has your government done for you lately?

    That is why we shouldn't be "spreading democracy" as if it were manure on a garden if you ask me.

    Those countries have got along just fine on their own. I don't see any Venzuelans running for the border. And I think we should stay home and mind our own damn business for a change.
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  9. #9

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    I would remind people that our own revolution was in no way "democratic".
    Somehow I knew that the Venezuela coup would be compared to the American Revolution. I'd respond by comparing the regime of Chavez to what followed in this country after the American Revolution. There are lots of Venezuelans fleeing their native country to America. The only Americans fleeing to Canada (created by the Tories, BTW) are cowardly punks who don't know how good they have it. "Conscientious Objectors" who don't care that, should a draft occur, somebody else will have to go in their place. Just do your two years and get out. Then you can turn into John Kerry.

    That reminds me of this:

    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/messa ... 2004-04-14

    The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not "insurgents" or "terrorists" or "The Enemy." They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow -- and they will win."
    Sorry, Michael. They can't even disrupt an election, never mind win. BTW, were they "Minutemen" when Clinton called for the end of Hussein's regime, or were they the enemy?

    As for the oil, Chavez uses it as a propaganda tool the way that no other man such as he has ever been able to do. It is winning his oppressive and bloody regime support in this country, which would spit on Castro's regime even though the two are identical in nature.

    To wit:

    http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=46084

    He used it to placate the Katrina victims, and maybe it helped them. But the action also oppressed his own people by creating a spirit of apathy and even support for his regime.

    Most disgusting of all is this:

    http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005 ... 1616.shtml

    Is it any wonder that Michael Kennedy is raising holy hell about drilling in ANWR and CO/WY/UT but he'll contribute to the oppression of Venezuelans? And this is an elected official from the D.P.R.Ma. no less. Hey, why not. Bootlegging is certainly in the Kennedy bloodline!

    As for being on Team America, I say "durka durka jihad".

  10. #10
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    nhmass-the lady in the Orlando article was making $100,000 a year in Venezuela and came to the United States and is making $50,000. Someone was fired for being involved in the 2002 "coup" to overthrow Chavez. This was the one they claim the United States and Bush instigated.

    Why would someone earning $100,000 a year in Venezuela be unhappy?

    Beware the proletariat propaganda. These were upper level income earners, professionals, part of the "in crowd" who felt like their world might be rocked around under a new leader like Chavez who was exploring solutions to gross poverty in Venezuela.

    I don't see why we would be accepting visa applications from Venezuelans to come here especially Florida which is already brimming with the Cubans and Chavez is clamping down on their money so if they sneak out of Venezuela, they don't take their funds with them. Hopefully this will discourage their departure and they will stay and build their country; treat their sick; be well-paid for it; and use their expertise to improve conditions in their country. Chavez wants doctors. He went to Cuba to get them.

    I still don't see the problem for the United States. Our job is to keep these people including the $100,000 a year disgruntled doctor from Venezuela out of our country. We don't want them here; we don't want their money; we don't want their expertise; we don't want their WHINING in the Orlando Sentinel or using their whines and propaganda to divide Americans.

    I like Chavez for one reason....he opposes the FTAA. What he does with Venezuela is yet to be seen and it frankly none of my business and I could care less. This is for the Venezuelan people to deal with. I do know that if WE defeat the FTAA, then freedom everywhere has a chance to continue. I also know that if we DO NOT defeat the FTAA, freedom is dead around the world including here in the Land of the Free, Home of the Brave.

    Chavez was elected to office by the poor of Venezuela. That means there are more poor people in Venezuela than rich doctors like the lady in the Orlando Sentinel story. You've intimated that Venezuela has many poor people and alot of poverty. These are the people that elected Chavez...not once, but twice.

    Democracy works by the Majority. This gives the poor the chance to have their leader whom they hope will build schools, build hospitals, get doctors, and work to cure poverty by developing more economic opportunities and instilling some redistribution of income. That is how we do it here. I expect the income gap in Venezuela was quite staggering.

    Before Bush, ours was 20. Now 5 years later it is 75.

    I wonder what it was in Venezuela before Chavez and what it is now.

    Perhaps with the attempted "coup" and the need for a second election under the oversight of the OAS, his programs were slowed somewhat, but it seems from all accounts that he is representing the people who elected him and lets pray he continues to do that.

    Any Venezuelan earning $100,000 a year in Venezuela sneaking into Florida to whine whine whine can just pack up their stuff and head back home to Venezuela. I'm sick to death of listening to these people whine instead of go back to their countries, stand up and be Real Men and Real Women and work every day to make their country a better place for themselves and their fellow citizens.

    If Chavez turns out to be a scum bag, then vote him out, drag him out, do whatever. But that is up to Venezuelans....not Americans. We have our own Deep Twit to Deal With. There's plenty of Americans who would like the $50,000 the lady earns in a store in Orlando and many more that would like the $100,000 a year she was earning in Venezuela.

    I've no pity for these whiners. Get them out of our country.

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