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Thread: Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump

    Bernie Sanders: Carrier just showed corporations how to beat Donald Trump

    We need a president who can stand up to big corporations, not fold to their demands.
    By Bernie Sanders December 1 at 6:00 AM
    Bernie Sanders is a U.S. senator from Vermont.

    Today, about 1,000 Carrier workers and their families should be rejoicing. But the rest of our nation’s workers should be very nervous.

    President-elect Donald Trump will reportedly announce a deal with United Technologies, the corporation that owns Carrier, that keeps less than 1,000 of the 2100 jobs in America that were previously scheduled to be transferred to Mexico. Let’s be clear: It is not good enough to save some of these jobs. Trump made a promise that he would save all of these jobs, and we cannot rest until an ironclad contract is signed to ensure that all of these workers are able to continue working in Indiana without having their pay or benefits slashed.

    In exchange for allowing United Technologies to continue to offshore more than 1,000 jobs, Trump will reportedly give the company tax and regulatory favors that the corporation has sought. Just a short few months ago, Trump was pledging to force United Technologies to “pay a damn tax.” He was insisting on very steep tariffs for companies like Carrier that left the United States and wanted to sell their foreign-made products back in the United States. Instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut. Wow! How’s that for standing up to corporate greed? How’s that for punishing corporations that shut down in the United States and move abroad?

    In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country.

    Trump has endangered the jobs of workers who were previously safe in the United States. Why? Because he has signaled to every corporation in America that they can threaten to offshore jobs in exchange for business-friendly tax benefits and incentives. Even corporations that weren’t thinking of offshoring jobs will most probably be re-evaluating their stance this morning. And who would pay for the high cost for tax cuts that go to the richest businessmen in America? The working class of America.

    Let’s be clear. United Technologies is not going broke. Last year, it made a profit of $7.6 billion and received more than $6 billion in defense contracts. It has also received more than $50 million from the Export-Import Bank and very generous tax breaks. In 2014, United Technologies gave its former chief executive Louis Chenevert a golden parachute worth more than $172 million. Last year, the company’s five highest-paid executives made more than $50 million. The firm also spent $12 billion to inflate its stock price instead of using that money to invest in new plants and workers.

    Does that sound like a company that deserves more corporate welfare from our government? Trump’s Band-Aid solution is only making the problem of wealth inequality in America even worse.

    I said I would work with Trump if he was serious about the promises he made to members of the working class. But after running a campaign pledging to be tough on corporate America, Trump has hypocritically decided to do the exact opposite. He wants to treat corporate irresponsibility with kid gloves. The problem with our rigged economy is not that our policies have been too tough on corporations; it’s that we haven’t been tough enough.

    We need to re-instill an ethic of corporate patriotism. We need to send a very loud and clear message to corporate America: The era of outsourcing is over. Instead of offshoring jobs, the time has come for you to start bringing good-paying jobs back to America.

    If United Technologies or any other company wants to keep outsourcing decent-paying American jobs, those companies must pay an outsourcing tax equal to the amount of money it expects to save by moving factories to Mexico or other low-wage countries. They should not receive federal contracts or other forms of corporate welfare. They must pay back all of the tax breaks and other corporate welfare they have received from the federal government. And they must not be allowed to reward their executives with stock options, bonuses or golden parachutes for outsourcing jobs to low-wage countries. I will soon be introducing the Outsourcing Prevention Act, which will address exactly that.

    If Donald Trump won’t stand up for America’s working class, we must.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poste...=.b9cf458e6bbc
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    LOL!! Oh Bernie, you stupid slut. You've been in the US Congress since 1991. The United States has lost 8 million manufacturing jobs since 2000, due to free trade policies, and because when you lose 1 manufacturing job in the US you lose 5 other jobs in the US economy, the United States has lost 48 million jobs in the past 15 years with 1600 more plant closings already filed with the US Department of Labor.

    So what did you and the Democrats do since 1991, that's Bill Clinton for 2 terms and Barack Obama for 2 terms. We had GW Bush in between there for 2 terms. What did you do? You did nothing. You sat on your stupid ass collecting your almost $200,000 a year and benefits watching the plants close, the jobs and payrolls flow right out of our country, what Donald Trump calls the "biggest jobs theft in world history."

    What did you do? You did nothing.

    Donald Trump has already saved the Lincoln SUV operation in Kentucky, saved all or part of the Carrier jobs in Indianapolis, we don't know the details yet, there were staggered lay-offs so Carrier has agreed not to close the plants but maybe not commit to all the jobs until after Trump gets his tax plan through Congress.

    Trump didn't pay Carrier a dime. The tax incentives were incentives that were already awarded to Carrier from several years ago by the State of Indiana. When they announced they were closing and moving to Mexico, and despite state and local efforts to keep them there, Carrier was leaving anyway so the state demanded about $1.5 million in tax incentives be repaid to the state. Now I guess that since Carrier is going to commit to keep at least half of those jobs at least for now, the state will repay them the $700,000 in incentives they already had but lost due to their move but since they aren't moving are now entitled to.

    No one paid anything to anyone other than what the original deal was with the state of Indiana when Carrier located there to begin with. Between simple-minded hysterics like you and the corrupt uninformed media, Americans will never get the truth of the deal, and that is why Trump isn't talking to you until he's talking straight to the workers at a Press Conference in Indianapolis today.

    Now aren't you all going to look even more stupid than the vast majority of Americans already think you are. Yes that's you, Bernie, who unfortunately has exposed himself as someone who actually does care more for politics than the people of our country and yes, that's also the infinitely stupid woman called Elizabeth Warren, all mouth, no brain, that one.

    You haven't stood up for the working class for 25 years, Bernie. You're just another all talk-no action politician. Like Trump always said about you, the one thing you were right on was trade. He said it all the time, giving you credit for wanting to fix our trade deals. But he also said, unfortunately you didn't have a clue how to do anything about it. And your crazy article proves that better than anything could.

    You're an old has-been, Bernie, who hasn't done one thing to protect one job from leaving the United States in 25 years of the "biggest jobs theft in world history."

    "Sad!"
    Last edited by Judy; 12-01-2016 at 11:48 AM.
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  3. #3
    MW
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    As much as I despise the socialist thinking of Bernie Sanders, he makes a good point here:

    We need a president who can stand up to big corporations, not fold to their demands.
    I find this concerning:

    In exchange for allowing United Technologies to continue to offshore more than 1,000 jobs, Trump will reportedly give the company tax and regulatory favors that the corporation has sought. Just a short few months ago, Trump was pledging to force United Technologies to “pay a damn tax.” He was insisting on very steep tariffs for companies like Carrier that left the United States and wanted to sell their foreign-made products back in the United States. Instead of a damn tax, the company will be rewarded with a damn tax cut. Wow! How’s that for standing up to corporate greed? How’s that for punishing corporations that shut down in the United States and move abroad?
    We need to get tough when responding to corporate greed. Giving in to their demands is not a long-term solution to dealing with them and it certainly isn't beneficial to the American taxpayer. Corporate welfare is not the answer. Personally, I felt Trump was right with his campaign promise to get tough on these corporations and and make them pay dearly for leaving. These corporations and big businesses are all about the green. It's a mistake to think they give a damned about the American worker ..... it's all about the financial bottom line.

    The United States is the largest consumer market in the world. There is no shortage of folks wanting to sell their manufactured goods here. When a company outsources jobs in a quest for cheaper labor, we need to sock them, and sock them hard, with higher taxes on the goods they attempt to ship back to the states. That is the way to fight the outsourcing problem, not giving in to their demands.

    IMO, Trump's campaign promise to place high tariffs on imported goods from companies that outsourced their jobs was the right approach. The only way to deal with these corporations is by using their greed against them, which means make it more expensive for them to leave!

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I know this may seem like a silly question to you, but what demands did Trump give in to? It appears to me that Carrier gave in to his. Trump didn't give Carrier "corporate welfare". Indiana did that to locate the industry years ago, Indiana made Carrier pay the incentives back because they were leaving for Mexico. Trump stopped that and when he did, Carrier was entitled to some of the incentives money back that they had repaid to the state of Indiana, which was a decision by Pence and the economic development board of Indiana, had nothing to do with Trump or federal taxpayers.

    States do still have the right to offer tax incentives to keep jobs in their state as well as locate new ones. Every state does it that wants manufacturing jobs. It's how they compete with each other to land the industries to begin with. Bernie and apparently a lot of other people don't know how economic development works or what is required to have and hang on to an industrial base in your state and community.
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    I hate to say it, but I have to agree with Bernie Sanders on this one. It is not acceptable that Carrier will save only 1,000 of those 2,200 jobs for Americans. Every American and every Carrier employee should be rejoicing at the news that all their jobs were saved.

    It appears that Carrier is doing just enough to make up for their PR disaster!

    Donald Trump is providing the left with far to many legitimate opportunities to bash him over issues like Carrier and his Goldmann Sachs appointees.

    W
    Last edited by ALIPAC; 12-01-2016 at 01:37 PM.
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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Where do you get the 2,200 jobs? From Bernie? Bernie doesn't know any of the details. They've not been announced yet. That will happen today at 2 pm. I posted the link to watch it on live stream. Hopefully it will be televised.

    There are two plants in Indianapolis owned by UT. One is Carrier, that is the one Trump was aware of and has saved. There's another plant that's a UT plant that no one knew about until the last couple of days.
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    Personally, I never expected a President Trump would be able to do everything he wanted - and certainly not everything I wanted.

    Whatever he gets on the positive side, will be more than we have and, I think, much more than we could expect had the election went the other way.

    I'm not in total agreement with all his ideas, but let's keep in mind the alternative.

    Also, he cannot do this by himself. It is going to take the American people to continue with the fervor, excitement and resolution that his campaign brought about. There are many things we can do in our own cities, counties and states, and in our own lives, that will help. We have an opportunity, let's don't waste it.

    Remember, we are going to have an administration that will have the continued (and even more strident) opposition of the main stream media, the Democrats, organizations with their own agenda, and far too many Republicans working against him - and us.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nntrixie View Post
    Personally, I never expected a President Trump would be able to do everything he wanted - and certainly not everything I wanted.

    Whatever he gets on the positive side, will be more than we have and, I think, much more than we could expect had the election went the other way.

    I'm not in total agreement with all his ideas, but let's keep in mind the alternative.

    Also, he cannot do this by himself. It is going to take the American people to continue with the fervor, excitement and resolution that his campaign brought about. There are many things we can do in our own cities, counties and states, and in our own lives, that will help. We have an opportunity, let's don't waste it.

    Remember, we are going to have an administration that will have the continued (and even more strident) opposition of the main stream media, the Democrats, organizations with their own agenda, and far too many Republicans working against him - and us.
    I totally agree nntrixie! Thank you so much for a great post!
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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by nntrixie View Post
    Personally, I never expected a President Trump would be able to do everything he wanted - and certainly not everything I wanted.

    Whatever he gets on the positive side, will be more than we have and, I think, much more than we could expect had the election went the other way.

    I'm not in total agreement with all his ideas, but let's keep in mind the alternative.

    Also, he cannot do this by himself. It is going to take the American people to continue with the fervor, excitement and resolution that his campaign brought about. There are many things we can do in our own cities, counties and states, and in our own lives, that will help. We have an opportunity, let's don't waste it.

    Remember, we are going to have an administration that will have the continued (and even more strident) opposition of the main stream media, the Democrats, organizations with their own agenda, and far too many Republicans working against him - and us.
    I fully expect him to make every effort possible to keep his campaign promises. After all, despite his character flaws, we elected him based on those promises.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    I agree and I am not saying we should not hold him accountable.

    To expect he can do everything he wanted, is a bit unrealistic.
    I expect him to try and to work on each and everything, but I have been around long enough to know, everything won't happen.

    Again, he can't do it without our help.

    It is of, by, and for the people - that's something we seem to have
    forgotten in the last few decades. We think if we simply vote in the person of 'our party', they will get it all done. I hope we are over that misconception.

    No, if I had gotten to choose a perfect candidate, it possibly would not have been him - then again it might have been. I certainly don't have anyone else in mind that would have had the courage and bombast to continue speaking - when the entire news media was against him. The Republican Party was against him. It seemed only the people (those insignificant deplorables) were agreeing. Yes, he is a little rough around the edges. I read an article in which someone described him as a 'bull in a china shop' - and suggested that might be what we need at this point in time. I'm kinda thinking that may be the case

    We have been playing the 'nice' game by actions and inactions and it has gotten us deeper in the muck.

    I can't tell you how good it made me feel to just hear someone speak out loud the things that I have been screaming to myself, my family and my friends for decades.

    Again, consider the alternative.

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