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That C-span meeting last night, they said they "knew" the House did not want to pass Bill 4437, but did it as a gesture, that they "Knew" the Senate will not pass it.
We have been duped.
I'm beginning to think our fight is futile. I've lost all trust in anyone in Washington....I feel so betrayed.
We HAVE been betrayed. Absolutely, definitely. Now...BATTLE...as Micheal would say...they haven't heard from us YET what they're going to hear.
When a buncha these worthless congress persons lose thier seats they'll only begin to understand that we're SERIOUS and we aren't GOING AWAY.
"I have just begun to fight"..John Paul Jones
So get with it.
RR
RoadRunner,
I must be that last person that can still be shocked and hurtl....I really feel like we are howling in the wind, no one cares what we think, we are being used as banks for illegals and legals health care, etc.
:x It just amazes me what these politicans will do, all in the interest of big business and a dollar bill. If the senate does not pass this bill, I am afraid the people are gonna rise up, I fear another Civil War in this country, the little guy(who wants our laws upheld) vs. crooked Washington(all the rich ones who do not give a damn about us)! If they cannot see that the people of America want this bill passed, they are asleep and it won't be until all hell breaks loose that they wake up!
rebelladyQuote:
Originally Posted by rebellady1964
Is there really any hope that they will listen to us? I'm beginning to think, NO.
The U.N.'s , Agenda 21, I fear, is beginning to start.
I emailed this morning....
Geoff Davis, Rep. Ky.
Mitch McConnel..Ky.
Bush
Tom Tancredo
Told them how hurt and upset I was that they duped us...told them I could not trust any of them any longer.
That's what I've been saying for years and nobody will listen. It's going to happen within 5-10 years tops. I say get ready, get prepared and stock up. It's coming. I hate to say that and I know none of you want to hear it, but it's coming.Quote:
I fear another Civil War in this country, the little guy(who wants our laws upheld) vs. crooked Washington(all the rich ones who do not give a damn about us)!
I too fear unrest in the streets. Our own government is allowing this to fester and blow!Quote:
Originally Posted by dman1200
I wonder...what would Norman Rockwell paint now?
Yeah, we are headed for a civil war. It's probably gonna be called "population control" in Washington.
I also emailed Rush Limbaugh.
He doesn't discuss immigration policy much, but I told him the House and Senate hoodwinked us.
I'm just emailing anyone I can think of....
Don't waste your time with Hush the Bush Bootlicker Bimbo. He doesn't discuss anything that will make Jorge Bush look bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetracks
Try John and Ken, Michael Savage, Terry Anderson, Lou Dobbs.
This "deal" to save the house to make it look like they are actually doing something about II has been mentioned before and SOME things never change. Read this old article from 1997, same BS, same players year after year.
Illegal-immigration bill weakened by unlikely alliance
By Marcus Stern
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
04-Nov-1997
---snip--- hard to copy!!
The peel-off bar-code tattoos were supposed to remind people of the way Nazis tattooed Jews during World War II.
"It was great," recalled Norquist, who is close to House Speaker Newt Gingrich. "We had our guys walking around with tattoos on their arms. It drove Simpson nuts because the implication was he's a Nazi."
The truth, however, is that both the House and the Senate bills specifically barred the implementation of any kind of national ID card. Politicians view such a card as a political kiss of death; nobody expects Congress to seriously consider one.
Toward the end of the debate, Simpson decried the pranks and slurs.
"We have dealt with tattoos and Adolf Hitler," he said. "It is the most offensive thing that I have ever heard. It's disgusting and I'm sick of it."
'Mark of the beast'
Although voters tend to see Republicans as tougher than Democrats on illegal immigration, the weakening of the verification provisions was largely the handiwork of conservative Republicans and their behind-the-scenes strategists like Norquist.
Their success underscores how tough it is for Congress to do the one thing experts have said for decades is central to curbing illegal immigration: Establish a reliable, non-discriminatory employment verification system.
Norquist has strong ties to the business community. Mainstream firms like Microsoft paid him to lobby against other provisions of the bill, such as tighter restrictions on the immigration of computer programmers.
But his forte is mobilizing support among social or moral conservatives, including gun owners, the religious right, home-schooling adherents and others he described as "anti-welfare and anti-police state."
"A government powerful enough to find an illegal immigrant is also powerful enough to find your bank accounts," he said.
Conveniently, he ignores the fact that the government long has been able to find bank accounts with ease while it still can't reliably identify undocumented workers.
"Nobody really minds people sneaking across the border and working at 7-Eleven," he added.
At one point during the debate, congressional offices received calls from fundamentalist ministers around the country asking about rumors that the verification provision would fulfill a prophecy in the Book of Revelation. Was it true, they asked congressional staffers, that people would be stamped with the "mark of the beast" under the new law?
"Six-six-six," Norquist explained matter-of-factly during an interview. "That's always been one of the arguments against the ID card. There's something in Revelations about numbering people. The 'beast' could be a big computer."
The National Rifle Association was told the bill would lead to a federal computer registry that the government could use to hunt down its members and seize their guns.
"Gun owners quite correctly understand that it would take Bill Clinton all of two weeks to add the question, 'Got any guns? Could we have a list of them? Where do you keep them?' " said Norquist.
Verification opponents also circulated mock national identification cards bearing Simpson's likeness. On the back of the cards was a retina scan diagram suggesting that the legislation called for everyone to carry such a card.
"That was a good one," Norquist chuckled.
http://www.cis.org/articles/Katz/katz1998.html
What's sad, is that these congressmen probably think that if they participate in creating this new world order, then they will have insulated themselves from the dangers of the new "3rd world America".
Conspiring with people who hate you, and want to kill you, in order to hold onto power, will only result in your own downfall, unless you knife your opponent in the back first(literally).
Repubs won't have the balls to turn on their foreign collaborators before they themselves are betrayed.
If they survive the future purges(every revolution has purges), they will not be allowed to hold on to all their riches. They will be stripped of their possessions and forced to survive like everybody else in the "new" crappy America.
These are just predictions on the future. The Republican party make cease to exist in a few years, due to lack of interest.
pa
I can't believe that anyone would be surprised that this government is betraying us. Do you not remember what they did to the Indians? Promises, promises, treaties etc...none of which they upheld when push came to shove. Betrayal is what this government is all about. Has always BEEN about.
A civil war is exactly what they want. The minute we begin to fight back in anything but words..they'll call for martial law and disarm everyone...incarcerate everyone...etc and so on.
THIS is the fight we have...THESE are the weapons we fight with...knowledge...exposure of their shills and tricks...electing constitution upholding candidates. First question that should be asked of any candidate..'How important is the constitution in your point of view?'
Think about it...
RR
Moostracks, just remeber these saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosetracks
Where there is no peril in the fight, there is no glory in the triumph.
~ ~ ~ Pierre Corneille
R.R. wrote:
--------------------
A civil war is exactly what they want. The minute we begin to fight back in anything but words..they'll call for martial law and disarm everyone...incarcerate everyone...etc and so on.
----------------------
I'm not advocating anything, it'll be the marxists or La Raza that does the purge I refered to.
But since you mentioned martial law and disarmament......
It would actually be BETTER if martial law was declared "sooner rather than later"(under whatever pretense) and the disarmament began.
Because they wouldn't be able to do it. They need to move more police-state assets and technology into position.
Probably more important, is that they have a ready force of Mexican army units ,AND U.N. peacekeepers to render "assistance" to the Feds in order to disarm everybody.
They would be happy to come right on in and screw us.
---------------------------------
THIS is the fight we have...THESE are the weapons we fight with...knowledge...exposure of their shills and tricks...electing constitution upholding candidates. First question that should be asked of any candidate..'How important is the constitution in your point of view?'
---------------------
They will just pay lip service for what people want to hear. "Of course the constitution is important they'll say , as endless millions of people with no idea of the Constitution , flood in and gain power. It's happening now.
pa
electing constitutional upholding candidates? What makes you think that the elections aren't already rigged?Quote:
THIS is the fight we have...THESE are the weapons we fight with...knowledge...exposure of their shills and tricks...electing constitution upholding candidates. First question that should be asked of any candidate..'How important is the constitution in your point of view?'
Whoa. Would someone please post a transcript of the discussion that is so upsetting you all?
I heard this said even when the House was voting on the bill. I don't think I heard it in the context of what C-Span said though. I think they just said that they were afraid that the Senate would GUT THE BILL. I KNOW the Senate will not pass the Bill that came out of the House. FRIST wants a GUESTWORKER PROGRAM. BUSH wants a GUESTWORKER PROGRAM and DOLE and BURR want a guestworker program. At least, I know that our NC Senators are going to be pushing for Bush's guestworker program so I don't think there's a snowball's chance in HELL for the bill WITHOUT a guestworker program to make it through the Senate. I have already been contacting my Senators because I want their desks PILED UP with DEMANDS to pass the BILL UNCHANGED when they return from their "HIATUS"! THEIR LONG VACATION!
I have never found any place to get transcripts from C-span. But after listening to this. I think this is what he was talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by SylviaAlvarado
It is realtime player. It is on the 2nd page under the below title
American Bar Assn. on Immigration Reform
In Washington, DC, the American Bar Association holds a panel discussion on immigration reform.
1/12/2006: WASHINGTON, DC: 1 hr. 30 min.
http://www.cspan.org/VideoArchives.asp? ... 100&Page=2
The government of for and by a very small minority of the populace has already pondered the possibility of mass unrest.
That is why, over the years, with one study leaking out to the public back in the early 1980s, the bureaucratic lackeys polled the military to determine to what extent they would fire upon their fellow citizens inside the homeland.
Rockfish? Of COURSE the elections are already rigged...have been like unto forever. That's PART of the knowledge we have gained...knowledge we must apply if we're ever to regain any control.
That's a discussion that we've already had here on this forum months ago.
I don't remember the name of the thread, unfortunately.
RR
If one thinks elections are rigged now, just wait.....how many think those Latino and other foreign organizations will line up the illegals and get them fake documents to vote with?
I expect a real mess.
I've not been up on my daily news, was curious if this bill is still in the stages of being voted on
4437 has PASSED the House but is in the process of going to the Senate. I THINK Frist said that they were going to start their "immigration reform" in February.
AuntB--your post on Norquist all the way back to 1997 was excellent.
Now, consider this fact we just learned recently.
Grover Norquist is Chairman Emeritus of the Islamic Institute in DC and shares offices with this institute he founded.
People, we are in it up to our necks.
Now, consider this fact we have known for some time.
17 of the proposed hijackers were Saudi Arabians, yet we invade Afghanistan and then Iraq.
Now, consider this fact we have known for some time.
The Bush family flew the bin Laden family out of the United States when no one else could fly in or out.
Now, consider this fact we have known for some time.
Bush never meets with the Prince of Saudi Arabia in the White House, only at the Ranch, his private property, when he is on vacation. You do that when you are conducting personal business, not official business.
Now, consider this fact we have known for some time.
The US House of Representatives passed an Anti-Terrorism Bill that increased the Bounty on Osama bin Laden and Zarqawi to $50,000,000 from $25 million in March of 2004...soon to be two years ago. It then moved to the US Senate in late March of 2004 and was assigned to the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee...where it has SAT to this day, buried in committee.
We are spending over $1 Billion a day in the name of the "global war on terror" losing American lives and maiming thousands of others yet the US Senate won't increase the Bounty to catch the guy they tell us is the person who orchestrated 9/11 and leads the war on terror?
Now consider this fact we learned yesterday:
The CIA performed a hit on a hideout in Pakistan that was supposed to have the Al-Qaeda Number Two Guy, Zawahiri. It was announced that 18 people were killed and that Zawahiri was the target. This was early yesterday morning. By last noon, it was confirmed that only 17 were killed. By late afternoon, it was confirmed that the one that got away was the target, Zawahiri. Now, think about that. How does Zawahiri get separated from this group he's hiding out with in the hills of Pakistan right before a CIA hit and is the only one to escape?
People...we have two operations running at the same time within our own government. One that is for us and one that is against us. That's how 9/11 happened. That's why we can't and won't fnd Osama bin Laden or Zarqawi or Zawahiri. That's why we are in a total state of Ironies and Opposites. There is a government within our government. And Bush is running both. It is the epitmome of subterfuge to deceive the American People about everything that is happening in our own country; in connection with the invasions; in connection with 9/11; in connection with illegal immigration; in connection with FTA/WTO; in connection with everything associated with the vital interests of the United States.
WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON?
We're being taken out.
8O 8O 8O
They need Osama, they need Zarqawi, they need Zawahiri. We're probably funding all three. They need turmoil in the Middle East to sustain the wars and the costs of these wars to increase the national debt; to isolate our troops from US; to indoctrinate them while they are away so that when or if they ever come home they have a new attitude; a new belief structure. They'll use Iran to keep them there...wait and see. They are being told we are the cowards; we are the selfish ones; we don't want to share; we don't see the future; we don't understand Globalization; that we are the traitors for not supporting the war any longer; that we are quitters; that we don't "get it"; that we are "dissidents"; that we are the enemy to world peace, freedom and democracy.
Now, think about this fact we've known for 4.5 years:
Our air defense system with a very specific protocol for hijacked commerical airlines did not function once with 4 opportunites on 9/11.
The plane that hit the Pentagon selected the one section out of 8 that would fail to destroy the Pentagon and involved a nearly impossible maneuver to hit that section without crashing first into I-395. If you are a terrorist with the desire to take out the Pentagon, you would not select this section or this maneuver. They told us that one of the reasons they suspected these hijackers was because they did not complete the "landing" part of the flight training. The pilot of the plane that hit the Pentagon required extensive "landing" training to be able to perform that maneuver which brought the plane in at ground level requiring highly practiced landing skills to perform without either flying over the Pentagon or crashing into I-395 which is elevated and right in the pathway of a dive into this section of the Pentagon.
HB 4437 will likely end up in a committee of the US Senate like the bill from the House to raise the bounty on bin Laden and Zarqawi. The US Senate is only 100 people. 55 voted for CAFTA knowing full well the consequences of CAFTA and the other 37 Free Trade Agreements they've ratified. Remember CAFTA originated in the Senate by mistake because it had an appropriation attached to it, it should have originated in the House because all bills with appropriations are supposed to commence there. That's why after the House passed it, it had to go back to the Senate for a second vote. The second vote passed as I recall by 57 to 42. It picked up 2 votes in that process.
They did that to scare the House. With an approval already in hand and on the books from the US Senate, that enabled Senators in favor of CAFTA to also work the House members--if you don't support CAFTA, then I'll not support your Bill Blah Blah. Then with the President and Vice President roaming the halls of the House DURING A VOTE, "hard ball" was in play probably on an historical basis.
The "government within the government" controls the US Senate.
It will take everything we've got and alittle more to get HB 4437 through without a Guest Worker Program. It would be in our interest to kill the bill rather than have it pass with a Guest Worker Program. We need a strategy. We need 40,000 Americans on the Border. We need the Minute Men. And we need to figure out how to raise the money to pay them so they can stand the guard in teams per mile to guard that border, every mile of it 24/7/365. If we raise the money ourselves, we probably can't raise enough to pay $20 an hour but maybe people would do it for what we can raise. We need to think quickly about how to do this....or we will have civil war as others have suggested. And we have to get this organized before HB 4437 gets to the US Senate. Once it passes with a Guest Worker Program, we can't stop anything. This is the hazard of "new laws" to enforce laws that aren't being enforced by a Renegade Government.
:(
At the very least...up to our necks.Quote:
People, we are in it up to our necks
RR
My EYEBALLS are BULGING.
And therein lies the problem. It has been stated all along that even if the Senate does pass it, they will take out certain parts and add their own. The president has refused to sign it without a guest worker provision which amounts to amnesty for 20 million illegals! This isn't new information because it was said from the very beginning.Quote:
The "government within the government" controls the US Senate.
I'm convinced that because the House Reps are more likely to have their smaller number of constituents looking them in the eye that they are more likely to vote for the things their people want. The bigger they get the less they care for what the real world operates like. That is why we need to get those senators out of there -- yesterday!
As for the president, who cares what he does. The Senate can legally veto his veto if we can convince them that we are going to railroad every one of them out of office if they don't. We can't stop and we can't give up.
I have a feeling they are going to try to sneak in the vote on this one before the people have time to react. Write or call them daily--even on the week end-- to make sure they know what we think. Tell your friends to write. Don't let up. I'm serious.
They did this for a Patriot Act extension in October figuring they were gonna pull one over. Don't let them do it again with 4437 OR the Patriot act which has been extended only until Feb 3. Don't give up.
VERY good point, JJ. I hadn't THOUGHT about them pulling the wool over our eyes like they did the Patriot Act Extension. We CANNOT AFFORD TO LET UP FOR A MINUTE.
We should know by now that they are going to turn the tables and make it look like our fault if and when they let us down. I'm so sick of their duplicity I am ready to scream.
And then we can give them a dose of their own medicine when we go to the polls. They've been so derelict that they have caused us undue concern...we'll elect others into office that will just possibly pay attention to the constitution.Quote:
As for the president, who cares what he does. The Senate can legally veto his veto if we can convince them that we are going to railroad every one of them out of office if they don't. We can't stop and we can't give up.
These, plus the prez, should be hung for treason.
RR