Thread: What they're saying (elsewhere about MMP)

Hey Gang (as William refers to us ), this is from wizbang blog .. http://wizbangblog.com/archives/005562.php

We are not alone in supporting MMP .. of course, we knew that. Here's some recent comments.
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Here's what's being reported on tomorrows Minuteman Project in Arizona.

Hundreds Prepared To Patrol U.S.-Mexico Border

TOMBSTONE, Ariz. (AP) -- An organizer of a project aimed at using volunteers to patrol Arizona's Mexican border for illegal immigrants now says about 450 people are ready to take part. But he's not saying how many have registered or taken part in orientation.

Organizers say the organizers will fan out across 23 miles of the border region to look for any illegal activity -- which they'll then report to federal agents.

There are fears among law enforcement authorities and others that the exercise could lead to vigilante violence. Some of the volunteers plan to be armed.

Across the border, dozens of Mexican officials are going to keep an eye on what the American anti-immigration activists are up to. Mexican officials say they want to make sure the rights of Mexican migrants are respected.

About 70 Mexican officials will keep tabs on the so-called Minuteman volunteers by interviewing migrants and asking U.S. authorities for regular reports, to find out whether any migrants have been abused.

Officials in Mexico say a migrant rescue group will have 20 agents in the area to alert migrants about the activists.

The first three paragraphs give a thumbnail sketch of what the Minuteman Project organizers hope to accomplish. Not mentioned is the fact that the ACLU has mobilized to watch the watchers, and protect the civil rights of the illegal aliens coming across the border. On the American side of the border it sound like it's going to be Gringo-city.

The second three paragraphs deal with the Mexican governments response to the Minuteman Project. The striking thing about their response is that they appear to have no intention of stopping "migrants" from making illegal border crossings. They're watching the watchers watch the watched.

Finally, what the story misses entirely is that border crossing is big business in Mexico not some mom-and-pop operation. The smugglers who get people across the border for a living are not idiots - they have TV's, know what's happening on the US side of the border, and they have cars. Isn't the most likely scenario that they take their clients (those who are being smuggled into the US) a few miles farther down the road, outside the 23 mile zone the Minuteman Project (and everyone else) is monitoring? It's a 500 mile border. All you have to do is go a few miles out the way to avoid the media circus...


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Posted by Kevin at 01:03 AM | Link | Filed under: News | Link Cosmos | Trackbacks (0)

Comments:

Mexican officials say they want to make sure the rights of Mexican migrants are respected.

Perhaps if Mexican officials spent a little more time trying to protect the rights of Mexican non-migrants, we wouldn't have as much of a problem.

I, too, doubt that the Minutemen will have much success with preventing anyone from crossing the border, espcially when protecting only a small part of the border, but it is a good way to put the issue in the spotlight. It'll be fun to watch.


Posted by: Raina at April 2, 2005 01:52 AM
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Obviously the Minutemen are making it an inconvenience for Mexico's
smuggling operations to be carried out. Mexico will put on this big show
of discontent and grip and maybe try to stir up some trouble to force
the State Department to run off the Minutemen. Its so corrupt along
the border these days that it would not surprise me if our border patrol
is being paid off to look the other way.


Posted by: John Martin at April 2, 2005 02:06 AM

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Wouldn't it be great if citizen groups sprang up along the border, numbering in the thousands, to protect the border? I hope The Minuteman get their 1,000 volunteers.....and with any luck this will only be the first of many such efforts.

Posted by: patriot at April 2, 2005 02:47 AM
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I'm telling you, bouncing betties & anti-vehicle mines from The Pacific to the Gulf, except for at properly manned crossing points.

Posted by: Cybrludite at April 2, 2005 03:30 AM
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mexico wants the border to be full of holes. They want to get rid of their compost.

Posted by: Henry at April 2, 2005 05:12 AM
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i'm referring to illegal immigrants, not legal.

Posted by: Henry at April 2, 2005 05:13 AM
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All those who desire free markets appear to be hypocrites about the labor market.

Posted by: Collin Baber at April 2, 2005 06:47 AM
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No, those who choose not to recognize the difference between a free market under law, and the black market outside the law, are the hypocrites.

Posted by: McGehee at April 2, 2005 07:05 AM
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Once again the anti-America bias of the MSM comes in loud and clear or "5x5" as we used to say!

Posted by: Rod Stanton at April 2, 2005 08:31 AM
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The Mexican government won't do anything to stop people from crossing, too many Mexican workers dend cash back to Mexico, and Mexico needs that cash and wants it.

Also, even if the higher ups in the government wanted to stop it, the local governments are so corrupt, that it is likely they would still accept bribes etc to turn a blind eye to the illegal crossings.

Posted by: Just Me at April 2, 2005 08:55 AM
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the issues would vanish in no time if there were not people on this side of the border willing to hire the illegals.

Posted by: Rick DeMent at April 2, 2005 09:03 AM
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First off. Most people who live in AZ carry a fire arm when traveling in remote desert area's. an armed person in the desert with water is more sane than not. 2n'd... If the border crossings move to another location The MINUTEMAN PROJECT is a success. Why? Proof that more border patrols will deter migration of the illegal kind. this USAF (mechanic) Vet will be heading from Phoenix to help out this Sunday CCW and 9mm for good measure. I'm working overtime on Saturday.$$$

Posted by: Ktech (ARIZONA) at April 2, 2005 09:05 AM
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Stick & stones...

Tombstone visitors got a taste Thursday of what could be coming.

Midafternoon, a man popped up Allen Street dressed satirically in a camouflage poncho and "beer helmet," carrying binoculars and a toy shotgun. He spoke in an exaggerated drawl, calling himself "Harold the Hero."

"I’m here to save America from those bloodthirsty killers," the man shouted.

Most people stared quietly until the man moved on.

But one watcher shouted back, "You’re here to show us you’re a moron."

Name calling... whats next a finger?

see story
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=38915

Posted by: Ktech (ARIZONA) at April 2, 2005 09:22 AM
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Just me, it's not the job of the Mexican governemnt to prevent it's citizens from leaving. No free nation that I know of does that. When people cross from the U.S. into Mexico nobody on the U.S. side searches the car or asks the intentions of the occupants. People are expecting Mexico to build a fance to keep people in and that's not the way it works now or should work. Prisons have fences to keep people in, communist nations do too. It makes no difference to me which side of the border I'm on, I don't want Mexico to imprison it's people with it's own Iron Curtain. The fact that America is a desirable place to live will always draw illegal immigrants, but it's the responsibily of the U.S. to keep them out. The day that Mexico makes it illegal to leave is the day that the status of people crossing changes from illegal immigrant to defector. Illegal aliens are easy to deport but if you really want to see problems with illegal immigration making them defectors is exactly the way to go. The joke in Miami is that's it's just like Havana, except there are more Cubans in Miami. The U.S. can keep deporting the illegals they can catch or start welcoming every one of them that makes it across as a defector and allow them to stay forever. Which would you prefer?

Posted by: bullwinkle at April 2, 2005 09:35 AM
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Here's my fantasy: That we can mobilize about 10 million Americans and swarm across the Mexican border into Mexico and take the jobs Mexicans are incompetent to do (yep we'd take the highest paying jobs), demand free healthcare, demand that all signs and documents be written in English, send all the money we make back to the United States, have US organized crime gangs smuggle US produced Methamphetamine into Mexico, demand Mexican schools acommodate English-only speaking children, demand college students be charged minimum tuition, demand driver licenses, rob and kill innocent Mexicans and escape back into the US while our government refuses to extradite the murderers, kill Mexican law enforcement officers, complain about being offended by the Mexican flag and other national symbols, build and maintain American-owned brothels, etc. What do you think Vincente Fox would say and do? Hell, what do you think the NY Times and Washington Post would print?

Posted by: Jim at April 2, 2005 09:50 AM
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Just me, it's not the job of the Mexican governemnt to prevent it's citizens from leaving.

It would be nice if they stopped encouraging it. And if they stopped whining about our efforts to protect our borders.

Posted by: McGehee at April 2, 2005 09:50 AM
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bullwinkle is right. Yet I would prefer the market dictate who stays by making it Illegal to hire an illegal. A local Pizza chain will not hire a US felon... They have Non us citizens from Mexico. (ILLEAGALS Non Citizens don't have a right to my families benefits, be it personal or government supported. anything give to them is a gift. The Govt. should let me give my own gifts... again the market can decide.

Posted by: Ktech (ARIZONA) at April 2, 2005 09:57 AM
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Noone seems to be commenting on the obvious, here.

Isn't it the job of the federal government (one of the few actually specifically outlined in the Constitution) to guard/protect our borders?

Instead of setting up vigilante patrols made up of citizens, why aren't these people organizing to force elected officials to properly fund and man the border patrol? Bush promised 2000 new border agents and has delivered 200.

Posted by: carla at April 2, 2005 10:48 AM

The entire immigration issue is going to blow-up. It's like poking a sleeping dog with a stick. When he wakes up, its not going to be pretty.

This time, we, the people, are the dog and the government holds the stick.

Originally Posted by 82Marine89

The entire immigration issue is going to blow-up. It's like poking a sleeping dog with a stick. When he wakes up, its not going to be pretty.This time, we, the people, are the dog and the government holds the stick.

I dunnoe, when Barkley wakes up he makes a funny, if not cute yawn. An "aaaaarrrruhhhhh." But poke him under the covers and try to move his big paws and he growls. Maybe that's the dog we'll see.

Across the border, dozens of Mexican officials are going to keep an eye on what the American anti-immigration activists are up to. Mexican officials say they want to make sure the rights of Mexican migrants are respected.

I have a better idea. Why don't the officials tell the Mexicans to stay in Mexico?

It would be nice if they stopped encouraging it. And if they stopped whining about our efforts to protect our borders.

It would be nicer if they were part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Hell, what do you think the NY Times and Washington Post would print?

The Post does print stories about illegal immigration. I don't think the
NY Times has any real journalists left. They don't have the guts to print
anything except whiny, sympathetic pieces about illegals--when they
print anything at all.

Sounds like you are describing ALL of the media to me! I still cannot believe the lack of professional journalism! What are they teaching these kids in journalism class? Lie and if that does not work, lets just wing it and make it up as we go?

The lack of ethics now in this country sickens me! Why does this continue, because of all the leftist judges and lawyers! The ALMIGHTY BUCK! I know there has to be lawyers and judges out there that care and know this is wrong! I wish they had the guts to stand up and do something!

I do not want to get off on another rant so I will leave it at that. The media is biased and I will never understand why they cannot see that this issue will effect their kids and their grandkids. How can you put your kids to sleep every night and tell them how much you love them when you are selling out their future? That is really selfish and cold!

Midafternoon, a man popped up Allen Street dressed satirically in a camouflage poncho and "beer helmet," carrying binoculars and a toy shotgun. He spoke in an exaggerated drawl, calling himself "Harold the Hero."

"I’m here to save America from those bloodthirsty killers," the man shouted.

Most people stared quietly until the man moved on.

But one watcher shouted back, "You’re here to show us you’re a moron."

I think he did a pretty good job of it.

Say; Here is an avenue which we can direct the grass roots. Ohflyingone, down where you hail, are the judges elected? I know in many states, they are. Time to use the issue or whatever will stick, to get rotton judges unelected. The appointed ones we can only hope to catch them in their malfeascance, create a public outcry, and have them hopefully resign in shame. From what I have seen, many judges have no SHAME.

My meeting with the immigration officials where I live(to remain anonymous, to avoid retribution upon them) said the main problem they have with enforcement is the unwillingness of JUDGES to obey the written LAW and SENTENCING guidelines that exist for immigration violations, at all levels.

Again, visit your Immigration authorities. Explain your concerns. Avoid emotionalism and your personal story. There are Port of Entry Immigration people. Border Enforcement people. Customs and Border people. Meet with ALL of them. Explain how we wish to use this issue to promote a pro-American agenda that will give their job more meaning and support them in what they are doing.

Make an appointment. Speak directly to the people on the top. Don't beat them up. Let them know of our support for them. Explain that help for them, is on the way.

William, you're busy, but could we make a protocol that would guide a person through the steps of how to well engage these people? They are with us. They don't like this anymore than we do, and they have to conduct this charade.

PS: The Customs workers I spoke with had their Union destroyed last year, at least up here. No details, but it was an obvious sore point. cheers glenn

ohflyingone said:
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Sounds like you are describing ALL of the media to me! I still cannot believe the lack of professional journalism! What are they teaching these kids in journalism class? Lie and if that does not work, lets just wing it and make it up as we go?
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You know what I say to people, whenever the word "journalist" is mentioned? I say that journalists are nothing more than prostitutes.


p.s.

I apologize to any prostitutes who may have been offended by my comparison.

-n

I've only been here for part of one day and my feeling is this membership doesn't give an "asno de las ratas" what the media or anyone else thinks. Illegal immigration is illegal and that's all there is to that. The only question is whether we have the will to enforce the law and how it should be done. IMO, we're at a critical juncture in the issue and some examples need to be made. Perhaps if a few hundred are treated with extreme violence, tattooed on the forehead or other such unthinkable thing, they might begin to understand this is a country of laws. And violators are dealt with harshly.

Journalists are right up there (or down there rather) with attorneys. I have a large number of both as personal friends, do not ask me why, I have no clue how it happened. Like the song says "I got friends in low places".

Anyway, any of them, in both professions will tell you - on the rare occassion ya catch them in an honest moment, usually over a few drinks - that they are prostitutes (though they generally use a different term for it). They can be very useful though. Ya just gotta know how to use them.