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Thread: When America Was 'Great,' Taxes Were High, Unions Were Strong, and Government Was Big

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  1. #11
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    I don't think I agree with that. We had a governor here in Oregon, Tom McCall, who flat out told people from other states to not move here. And the only reason the local economy plummeted after he left is because there was a nationwide, demographic slowdown in the demand for timber products, once the apartment and housing boom of the 1970's cooled down. That was the only reason. With growth you get growth headaches, and we have been able to preserve a decent lifestyle---even though not really a booming economy---because of those self imposed restrictions.

    There are lots of cities in the US that had phenomenal growth---that eventually didn't sustain---Cleveland, Youngstown, Saginaw, Pittsburg, Detroit. You can have it.
    "Men of low degree are vanity, Men of high degree are a lie. " David
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captainron View Post
    I don't think I agree with that. We had a governor here in Oregon, Tom McCall, who flat out told people from other states to not move here. And the only reason the local economy plummeted after he left is because there was a nationwide, demographic slowdown in the demand for timber products, once the apartment and housing boom of the 1970's cooled down. That was the only reason. With growth you get growth headaches, and we have been able to preserve a decent lifestyle---even though not really a booming economy---because of those self imposed restrictions.

    There are lots of cities in the US that had phenomenal growth---that eventually didn't sustain---Cleveland, Youngstown, Saginaw, Pittsburg, Detroit. You can have it.
    Oh yes, absolutely. They all turned to crap because the growth they sought and funded was population growth instead of economic growth. Economic growth is when incomes rise, poverty declines, assets grow. With population growth it's housing driven, large debt, large infrastructure, urban sprawl, higher taxes to pay for it, some new jobs, but unless there are manufacturing jobs at the core of it, it's service jobs, government jobs, financial jobs handling all the debt, it never breaks even, causing high inflation, and the bubble bursts, then you have massive unemployment, poverty, and homelessness with higher taxes that pay for it.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Captainron's Avatar
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    There are a host of reasons why cities like Detroit went to pot. From over thirty years of working in carpentry and four decades of being a historic home owner, I certainly could clear the air of misinformation that circulates around the GOP---and that would also help them bolster their arguments against tax and spend liberalism.

    The eastern cities swelled around the turn of the century---just when ornamental housing was coming into vogue. Suddenly, fancy wood parts could be turned out by machine, and of course, sensible people would opt to be homeowners, and also seek jobs in the increasing manufacturing base. But all of those gingerbread houses, though very fashionable when built, were also hard to keep up. Then, war time and Depression scarcities prompted bizarre remodeling jobs, people's comfort levels went up, so they did certain "energy conversions." etc. Plus the NE with lots of ice and snow did a lot of damage, or insects and windstorms in the south. Out here in Oregon they built homes out of pine in the east, and those dried up, and the ones in the west rotted, and also in Washington. Yet in San Francisco people could find a gold mine in the historic houses and buildings because----they had a lot of financial prosperity through international trade!! So, even with a liberal government San Francisco and Seattle, too, could prosper.

    I have seen old, historic housing in some cities where they used a lot of brick, that look much better. But still, in E. Pennsylvania and Ohio you will see old rotten brick buildings, too, that are just slums now. They were fancy when built though. Also, in Detroit as the auto industry collapsed I think a lot of property owners just walked off, rather than undertake expensive restoration work; especially if the renters are leaving, also.

    So, you're really comparing apples and oranges. Everyone likes to point fingers at liberal officials in Detroit---but the underlying reasons were the enormous stock of antique, hard to maintain buildings---and the collapse of domestic industries. Blacks had moved to these cities as the inter-War and post-War economies soared, but then they were left holding the bag when industry plummeted. Of course whites get blamed for their predicament, but it was really just economic choice.

    But if the GOP wants to make an argument out of examples like those eastern cities, they should at least get their facts straight. I agree with you that rampant population growth as a way of economic improvement is bad; it causes sprawl and planning headaches, and now, lots of citizen advisory groups to waste time. It is better to lure high end industries----if you are not really fortunate like a few Port cities are---but there's a lot of competition for that. After the 1980's collapse we lured high tech industries---but it was amazing to see people lining up for 8 dollar an hour jobs, and driving 20-30 miles to get them!

    And then we have bimbos like Carly Fiorina making it just that much worse!!
    "Men of low degree are vanity, Men of high degree are a lie. " David
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