Thread: Arguing With An Idiot: Mark & Heather Dismantle Jeb Bush’s Immigration Talking Points

Arguing With An Idiot: Mark and Heather Dismantle Jeb Bush’s Immigration Talking Points

Mark Levin was Ed Meese’s Chief of Staff within Ronald Reagan’s administration. Recently he offered having a debate on “Immigration Reform” (we all know it’s Amnesty!) with Heather Mac Donald and Ed Meese. Even though the debate was not held, I hope some of the answers she provides help you argue against Amnesty with your Representatives. (I know it’s against all hope, but we must call them!) Heather Lynn Mac Donald, of the Manhattan Institute, is an expert on Immigration Reform. She was on Mark’s show to rebut what Jeb Bush had said at the Faith and Freedom Coalition, on June 22nd. She and Mark both dismantle the ignorant comments Jeb made.

(1) Jeb Bush says..

“The only way that we can rebuild the demographic pyramid is to fix a broken immigration system to allow for people to come, to learn English, to play by our rules,to embrace our values, and to pursue their dreams in our country with a vengeance to create more opportunities for all of us. This is a conservative idea. And if we do this, we will rebuild our country in a way that will allow us to grow. If we don’t do it, we will be in decline because the productivity of this country is dependent upon young people that are equipped to work hard.”



Heather: I particularly love the “playing by our rules“. They come here by not playing by our rules The most amazing thing about this amnesty bill will allow people with criminal records and with a number of arrests and misdemeanor convictions to get amnesty, people Karl Rove refers to of strong, proven moral character. So we have an utter attack on the Rule of Law. What no one is talking about is that we already have already discredited enforcement.

Every immigration hearing at this point has protestors in the back with signs saying no more deportation. Even if we give them this amnesty, the next day, a border agent or someone from ICE who ensures this country, finds someone here illegally, deportation is not going to happen.

That other comment is absurd. Nothing in this bill requires the actual acquisition of English. It’s merely an intent to lure the crowd. What we’re already seeing absent in the group of another 30 million immigrants in the future of this bill, is an utter failure of people to adopt our common language.

Take Marco Rubio, for example, who went behind American’s backs in the Spanish Language Media, saying one thing in Spanish to the Spanish-speaking audience, that legalization comes first, before enforcement, the opposite message of what he had been saying to the English-speaking audiences. I find it a shocking betrayal and a sign of why we should worry about the fact that people are not learning English.

She ends the segment by saying Senator Sessions did an extraordinary job, and Senator Grassley to an extent, offering amendments after amendments, but that the bottom line is measurable success to secure the border, not just plans to secure the border. “It has been shown to be a complete fraud.”

(2)Jeb Bush says..

“Immigrants created far more businesses than native-born Americans over the last twenty years. Immigrants are more fertile and they love families and they have more tight families, and they bring in a younger population.”



Heather: That is a lie! There is no difference at all in the business creation rates between immigrants and native Americans.

What Bush and everybody else does constantly is conflate high-skilled and low-skilled immigrants, and among the low-skilled Hispanic immigrants, they ignore cultural differences. I’m reluctant to bring it on air, but it is true. There is a culture confrontation among South American immigrants, and those from Mexico and Central America. I spoke to a lot of Hispanic Entrepreneurs for an article I wrote recently about California, and I wanted to give the best possible picture of Californian Hispanic Entrepreneurs, and I went to a Democratic Latino pollster and said give me the best people I can talk to, to give the positive side of the story, and I did. They were all Columbians, Ecuadorians, Cubans and Spaniards who had come.

One woman from Ecuador who runs a publishing business she says her own work place is divided.

The idea that an overall group has a greater rate of business creation is wrong. It ignores the differences among immigrant groups, high-skilled immigrants. Everybody talks about Sergey Brin. That’s a different matter than somebody who’s come in. (Mark interrupts to find out who he is.)

Sergey Brin gave us some of our greatest computer innovations, and is involved in Google, and everybody points to him, but he came in with a high levels of education. Very few people are opposing high-skilled immigrants who do have very high rates of business creation, but that’s not what this bill is about.

It would have been another thing if Jeb Bush had followed through on the recommendations of his book which is to tilt the immigration towards a high-skilled immigration then we’ve lost on that count, we’ve run out on those kinds of advocates, and we’ve preserved our system of mostly family-based immigration, chain migration, which is going to bring in more of the low-skilled population.

Mark: This is what also bothers me about his statement.They characterize foreigners who come here illegally as virtuous, as noble, as entrepreneurs, and they put down the native population, the very people who put them in office, the very people that government exists to defend and nurture. So the American people are treated like second-class citizens, and it is the immigrant, the illegal immigrant, who is so much better.

Poverty rates

Heather: Among Hispanics, it’s twice as high. This is now native-born Hispanics. Second, third generation Hispanics have a much higher rate of Welfare consumption, not because they are not working. They are in the work force, most of them, but because their skill level is so low.

Mark interjects to look who is coming across the border - not rocket scientists or engineers - it’s poor people escaping the cronyism and what goes on in the Mexican government. So of course, they’re poor, they’re less skilled. They’re less literate. That’s your point.

Heather: The rate of welfare and poverty actually goes up with second, third generation Hispanics in this country, which is extremely odd, and just another sign that what is happening is a certain rate of assimilation to an underclass. The argument that we also hear from Jeb Bush and Rubio is that it will have a wonderful effect on bailing out our bankrupt entitlement programs, because they’re going to pay taxes, but they’re not paid in taxes enough to compensate for the cost of education and health care, and other programs.

Mark: None of us have enough money to pay for this massive implosion of a welfare state. Let’s slash these programs instead!

Amnesty

Mark: Paul Ryan is saying (talking point) ”This isn’t Amnesty. Amnesty wipes the slate clean.” Mark says Amnesty (to him) is you’re here illegally and now you’re legal!

Heather: That is exactly what is does. Amnesty does wipe the slate clean. The fact that you have to pay a minimum fine of $500 to get immediately legalized after this bill is passed, doesn’t make it not an amnesty. The point of an amnesty is you’re no longer illegal. So we have tax amnesty, too, that usually requires a back payment of taxes that we consider an amnesty, because your status as a tax lawbreaker, is canceled.

So that is a basic fact, but beyond that, if you want to quibble about the details, the law is filled of loopholes of how you can get away from paying a minimum amount of fines whether imposed, and the notion that the illegal aliens are going to pay their back taxes, that doesn’t make it not an amnesty. That’s incorrect.

There’s no obligation requiring the illegal aliens to come forward and honor how much taxes they have to pay. That’s not going to happen. In any case, what it gets the people here exactly is what they want, which is fully legal status.I’m amazed that Republicans aren’t fighting harder, and see that just because there’s a few hurdles which are trivial, does not make it not an amnesty.

(3)Jeb Bush says…

3. “Canada is the place we might want to look to. Canada has one tenth our population. They have more “economic immigrants” and they have seen sustained economic growth because of it. We should…”



Heather: I’m amazed that Jeb Bush has the gall to bring up Canada, because Canada is looking at high-skilled immigrants.

Canada uses skills as a point system, so if you speak English, you get in, if you have Advanced Education, you get in. That would be a proposal the Republicans could get behind.

But in Canada they don’t have what we have – a mass flow of uneducated immigrants, who may mean well, but I would invite Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio to go in to the middle schools in Los Angeles to see single mothers coming in to talk with the anti-gang counselors of the school to try to figure out how to keep their teen males out of gang culture, and stop hanging on the streets of Los Angeles, because these mothers who are single mothers who have also, while we’re at it, Mark, deceived the Hispanic “family values” myth.

Hispanics now have now a 53% out-of-wedlock birth rate, twice what the black illegitimacy rate was in ’55, when then Daniel Patrick Moynihan so presciently said that a 23% illegitimacy rate among blacks signaled a major social catastrophe. I would invite Bush and Rubio to come with me to some schools in LA to where they will see the effects of massive, low-skilled immigration, which is what the Gang of Eight Bill is going to bring us. The Hispanic out-of-wedlock rate is twice that of Whites and Asians.

Black 73%

Hispanic 53%

Hispanic American 43%

White 23%

Asians 16%

Mark: I have two last questions 1) I keep hearing we have to bring illegal aliens out of the shadows. They’re not in the shadows! 2) We can’t maintain their status like this. I’m thinking to myself: Are people dragged across the border. Why is it my responsibility to confer rights and benefits to people who are here illegally? Why is this my number one priority?

Heather: We are constantly hearing that we are responsible for breaking up families, and they’re responsible! They came here fully assuming the risk of being illegal. This is not a problem that won’t take care of itself. Their kids through the idiocy of birth-right citizenship, their kids who were born here are American citizens.

We are not to blame. The Rule of Law is not to blame.


http://thespeechatimeforchoosing.wor...alking-points/

To the RNC and GOP

Don't you dare stick this Incredible DUMB ASS in front of me and tell me this is who is going to Represent the Republican Party

I will fight you Tooth and Nail as soon as you say he is the best we have

I will STAY in the Republican Party but I'll Vote for the most HATED Woman in the World "Hitlery Clinton" LONG before I would vote for this GOOF BALL; you even put him on as a VP and I am bailing ship on you

to those in the other 49 states

your state may be in a Recession "FLORIDA" is in a DEPRESSION thanks to this NUT CASE, Charlie Christ and G.W. Bush that Collapsed the Greatest Economy in the World

Don't you dare even let the thought cross your little Pea Brains