Thread: Bush Amnesty smoking gun: Found. Again.

The smoking illegal alien amnesty gun behind President Bush's recent tough-sounding rhetoric on border security has turned up, buried all the way at the bottom of yesterday's Department of Homeland Security press release, DHS Announces Long-Term Border and Immigration Strategy:

SBI will serve as the enforcement complement to the Temporary Worker Program that President Bush proposed last year. The Temporary Worker Program will have the effect of enabling migrants to pursue work in regulated, legal channels – and will increase safety and security by giving us a better idea of who is entering our country and for what purpose.

DHS Announces Long-Term Border and Immigration Strategy - November 2, 2005
http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=4923

Meet the President's new amnesty, same as his old amnesty:

I propose a new temporary worker program that will match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs. This program will offer legal status, as temporary workers, to the millions of undocumented men and women now employed in the United States, and to those in foreign countries who seek to participate in the program and have been offered employment here. This new system should be clear and efficient, so employers are able to find workers quickly and simply.

President Bush Proposes New Temporary Worker Program - January 7, 2004
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 107-3.html

(More, with links...)

http://thetarpit.blogspot.com/2005/11/b ... in_03.html

No news here. Same old blanket amnesty snake oil being peddled by the Jorge administration. Thank god that his poll numbers continue to drop like a rock. The lower his numbers go, the better it is for America and the less likely his shamnesty scam gets passed in Congress.

Save America!

Impeach Bush!

Recall Jeb!

Deport Congress!

Originally Posted by dman1200

No news here. Same old blanket amnesty snake oil being peddled by the Jorge administration.

It's not a blanket amnesty, and neither was Reagan's. Go read the full post at The Tar Pit. Even John Kerry's proposed amnesty wasn't blanket, there were illegals who would have been excluded. No one in Washington is proposing blanket amnesty, but there are about a half dozen amnesty plans being proposed.

Talking about "blanket amnesty" is a trap. When those of us who oppose amnesty use sloppy rhetoric, we make it easy for Bush to say "I oppose blanket amnesty" and appear as if he opposes amnesty altogether.

Reagan's Amnesty is the standard by which other amnesties are flushed out. For apologists to redefine the current plans of Bush and others as not being amnesties, they would also have to redefine Reagan's. They can't, and that's the corner to paint them in.

It's not a blanket amnesty, and neither was Reagan's. Go read the full post at The Tar Pit. Even John Kerry's proposed amnesty wasn't blanket, there were illegals who would have been excluded. No one in Washington is proposing blanket amnesty, but there are about a half dozen amnesty plans being proposed.

It is a blanket amnesty. It allows any illegal aliens to stay in the country as long as they prove they have a job which isn't very hard to do especially considering how these illegal aliens will lie on a whim to avoid being kicked out of the country. Plus the illegal aliens (this is what Bush won't tell you) after working for 3 to 6 years will end up getting a green card because as you know the government will not enforce any of the rules in the so called temporary worker program. It will be zero enforcement, 100 percent amnesty. So my calling it a blanket amnesty is just that. In fact Bush's catch and release nonsense and his continuing to allow sanctionary zones for illegals around the country imposed by states is a de facto blanket amnesty alone.

Reagans was a major league blanket amnesty. Illegals who stayed in the country for 5 years were given green cards and it was widely known that it was just racked with massive fraud.

See neither doesn't seem like a blanket amnesty on the surface, but you have to not only read between the lines, but you have to study how the inept government of ours works. You have to cut through the BS and the lies. Think outside the box.

Bush can say he opposes blanket amnesty all he wants, but I know it's absolute horse crap and many Americans are catching on to his many lies.

Originally Posted by dman1200

It is a blanket amnesty. It allows any illegal aliens to stay in the country as long as they prove they have a job which isn't very hard to do especially considering how these illegal aliens will lie on a whim to avoid being kicked out of the country.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. A blanket amnesty would be unconditional. The Bush Amnesty, as you've observed, has conditions. Therefore, it's not a blanket amnesty.

BTW, an illegal couldn't just lie his way into the Bush Amnesty, he also needs a verified employer. I'm not defending it, just explaining it accurately.

Bad information isn't a useful tool.

Originally Posted by dman1200

Reagans was a major league blanket amnesty. Illegals who stayed in the country for 5 years were given green cards

Wrong, illegals who passed background checks, health screening, and could prove their presence in the country before January 1, 1982 were eligible for the Reagan Amnesty. Others weren't, so again, it wasn't a blanket amnesty. Also, these illegals weren't immediately given green cards, they were given Lawful Temporary Residence status first, and had to wait 18 months after that before applying for green cards.

Try to be accurate, it's helpful. The Bush apologists would like nothing better than for opponents of illegals to ignore that the Reagan Amnesty was initially temporary, because it makes a "temporary" guest worker amnesty an easier sell.

Your second sentence contradicts your first. A blanket amnesty would be unconditional. The Bush Amnesty, as you've observed, has conditions. Therefore, it's not a blanket amnesty.

BTW, an illegal couldn't just lie his way into the Bush Amnesty, he also needs a verified employer. I'm not defending it, just explaining it accurately.

Bad information isn't a useful tool.

None of these conditions will be enforced. You are banking on the fact that these provisions are going to be enforced to the T. If you think that then you don't know how these dishonest politicans work. If you don't think illegals won't lie their way into the amnesty you are wrong. Illegals will still be able to use their phony matricula consular cards (which Bush favors) and they are the biggest offenders of identity theft. They steal SS numbers and use them to gain access to these jobs. Like I said, on the surface it doesn't seem like a blanket amnesty, but lack of enforcement will turn it into one.

Wrong, illegals who passed background checks, health screening, and could prove their presence in the country before January 1, 1982 were eligible for the Reagan Amnesty. Others weren't, so again, it wasn't a blanket amnesty. Also, these illegals weren't immediately given green cards, they were given Lawful Temporary Residence status first, and had to wait 18 months after that before applying for green cards.

Oh come on now. Everyone knows that the Reagan amnesty was racked with fraud. After the amnesty, the INS was so backlogged, so overwhelmed with applications that they were just accepting almost all of the applications just so they can clear the massive backlog regardless of how fraudulent they were. Again depending on illegal aliens honesty is like playing Russian roulette. These illegals use phony ID's, fake documentation and they know of many ways to circumvent the law. They do this for a living, they are no dummies when it comes to this. They will find loopholes to circumvent these so called conditions and be able to bring their entire families here.

Try to be accurate, it's helpful. The Bush apologists would like nothing better than for opponents of illegals to ignore that the Reagan Amnesty was initially temporary, because it makes a "temporary" guest worker amnesty an easier sell.

You seem like a nice person, but I think your being a bit naive that you think these conditions are going to be enforced and your not taking into account that this program will be racked with fraud and your not taking into account the known dishonest ways of these criminal aliens. You have to understand that we are dealing with a corrupt government who likes to pull the wool over the eyes of the American people. They will try to sell their amnesty by putting in enforcement provisions that look decent on paper, but they all know damn well they won't get enforced. Look at the Reagan amnesty again. It had many good enforcement provisions that never, ever got enforced and if they were enforced, it would have probably solved the problem or came close to it. That's what turn the Reagan amnesty into a blanket amnesty.

Originally Posted by dman1200

None of these conditions will be enforced. You are banking on the fact that these provisions are going to be enforced to the T.

No, I'm banking that amnesties will be defeated by facts on the ground and superior intellectual honesty, rather than by rants.

Amnesty by any other name is still AMNESTY. End of argument. Reagan's failed and Bush's will fail too IF he is allowed to carry it out. Call it what you want but what we are dealing with in this country right now might as well have been a BLANKET AMNESTY because every Mexican and his brother, sister, mother, father, children, cousins, nieces, nephews--the whole fam damily is right here sucking us DRY.

Originally Posted by Bootsie

Amnesty by any other name is still AMNESTY. End of argument.

What argument? That was my initial point.

Originally Posted by Bootsie

Reagan's failed and Bush's will fail too IF he is allowed to carry it out. Call it what you want but what we are dealing with in this country right now might as well have been a BLANKET AMNESTY because every Mexican and his brother, sister, mother, father, children, cousins, nieces, nephews--the whole fam damily is right here sucking us DRY.

If you're sloppy with your terms you'll be sloppy with your thinking and you'll lose the debate. It's not good enough to say it "might as well have been a BLANKET AMNESTY," when it plainly isn't. Nor is "every Mexican" here, not even close. Play with hyperbole and the good points you might make will be lost.

This is a debate that we don't INTEND to lose. I SHOULD have said that EVERY MEXICAN THAT IS HERE has brought the above mentioned and that they are sucking us dry. But, if we keep ignoring this problem or agree to any form of amnesty, then the former state will prove to be correct.