Thread: Executive order amnesty...as I said, this is not a joke.

Originally Posted by ShockedinCalifornia

Does this also makes it possible for the next President to nullify a previous Executive Order by Executive Order?

Huge question. How to dismantle usurpation will have to stand tests of constitutionality. But the Constitution is null or void...what law are we under? Most say we are under a dictatorship and that maritime law prevails (the reason for the gates in front of a judge...this symbolizes the deck of a ship when you walk through the gates.)

What law we are under will also need to be defined. Right now the courts are usurping the Constitution:
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"...Our courts turned against us and created a dictatorship.

The courts in 1937 decreed that treaties, known as executive agreements, signed by presidents Executive Orders do not require consensus or approval by either the legislative (Congress) or judicial (U.S. Supreme Court) branches of the government.
http://vactruth.com/2010/06/14/fourth-s ... ve-orders/

IMHO...we have not had a legitimate Republic sense the (IMO illegal) Act of 1871 suspended the organic constitution and turned it into "articles of incorporation" for the New 10ac INCORPORATED "Unite States of America."

1871, February 21: Congress Passes an Act to Provide a Government for the District of Columbia, also known as the Act of 1871.

With no constitutional authority to do so, Congress creates a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, a ten mile square parcel of land (see, Acts of the Forty-first Congress," Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62).

The act -- passed when the country was weakened and financially depleted in the aftermath of the Civil War -- was a strategic move by foreign interests (international bankers) who were intent upon gaining a stranglehold on the coffers and neck of America. Congress cut a deal with the international bankers (specifically Rothschild's of London) to incur a DEBT to said bankers. Because the bankers were not about to lend money to a floundering nation without serious stipulations, they devised a way to get their foot in the door of the United States.

The Act of 1871 formed a corporation called THE UNITED STATES. The corporation, OWNED by foreign interests, moved in and shoved the original Constitution into a dustbin. With the Act of 1871, the organic Constitution was defaced -- in effect vandalized and sabotage -- when the title was capitalized and the word "for" was changed to "of" in the title.
http://www.byronwine.com/files/1871.pdf

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OK...to your question. We have had a puppet government that goes through the motions of a Republic to appease the population into thinking we have a legitimate government in place. This is why we can't understand how they can continue to go against the people and the constitution. We know it is wrong but they do it anyway! WHY? Because they can! Our laws have been usurped and we live in a dictatorship that posses as a democracy. Soon we will live in a new Socialistic Democracy...that has no constitution at all.

It is starting to make sense now? This is really ugly!!!

[quote="sugarhighwolf"]This is part of an article from June. Obama has been talking about using an EO to "pardon" illegals for a while now.

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/bara ... /id/363160

Fox News' Bill O'Reilly is warning that if President Barack Obama ever bypasses Congress and uses his pardon power to make millions of illegal aliens citizens, he could face serious calls for his impeachment.

“If President Obama were to sign an executive order giving illegal aliens amnesty, his career would be over and an impeachment movement would explode,â€

The President does not have the authority to proclaim laws. Presidents only have the power to issue executive orders. The effect of exective orders is limited to the bureaucracy. If there is any effect beyond the bureaucracy then the President must go to Congress and get a law passed. He would have to sign the law before it goes into effect. Obviously a general amnesty would have to be a law. So Obama can't just proclaim an amnesty. As far as the President's pardon authority goes, first the applicant must be found guilty of breaking a law and have received some kind of punishment for it. Then the applicant must apply for the amnesty. As far as I know there aren't any illegals who have applied for a pardon? But there might be some? I don't know the answer to that. Even if they got a pardon that does not mean they would even get legal status. They just wouldn't be punished if they haven't already been punished. But they would still have to be deported. But they could apply for lawful entry after deportation.

Originally Posted by Justthatguy

The President does not have the authority to proclaim laws. Presidents only have the power to issue executive orders. The effect of exective orders is limited to the bureaucracy. If there is any effect beyond the bureaucracy then the President must go to Congress and get a law passed. He would have to sign the law before it goes into effect. Obviously a general amnesty would have to be a law. So Obama can't just proclaim an amnesty. As far as the President's pardon authority goes, first the applicant must be found guilty of breaking a law and have received some kind of punishment for it. Then the applicant must apply for the amnesty. As far as I know there aren't any illegals who have applied for a pardon? But there might be some? I don't know the answer to that. Even if they got a pardon that does not mean they would even get legal status. They just wouldn't be punished if they haven't already been punished. But they would still have to be deported. But they could apply for lawful entry after deportation.

You answered may of your own question. I appreciate your logic but you are thinking way to logical and legitimate. We do not have a legitimate government. "Illegals" already broke the law as you say...they have to commit a crime...they have. A blanket amnesty will forgive that crime and he may even provide the "pathway to citizenship" for them under some kind of "humanitarian protect the children" law on the books now. We can't think about how he "can't" do something...we have think about how he "can" do it and try to stay a step ahead of them...if that is possible.

The problem is that we have no courts protecting us anymore. I am not attempting to create a hostile or adversarial position with you. I appreciate your appreciation of legitimate law. The problem is that you have not studied enough of the usurpation and how it is infecting and eradicating the "peoples law".

The reality...there is no peoples law right now. IMHO...

Please don't shoot the messenger. I have been working for many years to try and understand one question "HOW CAN THEY DO THAT...!!!"

Does he really think this is going to protect his party in the elections? I know they say he doesn't have enough votes to pass this the regular way, but they lie so damn much, how do we really know? I honestly think he is doing this to get his way and to be able to say don't blame anyone but me, after this is passed, all the Dems will have the hispanic votes and that is not good.I have never seen such a bunch of weasels and I am scared to death of what they will do between now and the first of the year.

Originally Posted by HoosierLady

Does he really think this is going to protect his party in the elections? I know they say he doesn't have enough votes to pass this the regular way, but they lie so damn much, how do we really know? I honestly think he is doing this to get his way and to be able to say don't blame anyone but me, after this is passed, all the Dems will have the hispanic votes and that is not good.I have never seen such a bunch of weasels and I am scared to death of what they will do between now and the first of the year.

I warned years ago about the EO of amnesty. Now it is knocking at the door. Now I will warn that in any "national emergency" or declaration of war there can be no elections. Or I should say they can legaly stop elections...they can and have still had them. But it is by choice...or fear. We will see...

No elections.

NO....elections.

i don't know , i still have the benefit of the doubt. if it is true that will be a political suicide and will bring this country into a revolutionary war , civil war, race war and every kind of war you can name. there is no money. the country is in serious problem. unemployment is skyrocketing. don't believe washington if they say there's jobs open because it is not true. those jobs that are open because companies laid off employees who have been in the company for awhile being replaced by newly college grads for an entry level pay. i know this because my company is doing it. they are giving college grads jobs displacing workers between the age of 35 and 55 forcing 55 and over into an early retirement. i dont think GOP will allow this to happen.

but if it does please tell me "we told you so". thanks.

After looking into this "Executive Authority" issue, it seems to have been something made up just by the mere doing of something that has no legal authorization by the constitution, and has been done for decades by all presidents!

Here is what our Constitution says:

Article II
Section 1.
The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2.
The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Show me where any president has this grand power please, am I missing something?

Ken

Originally Posted by dregerk

After looking into this "Executive Authority" issue, it seems to have been something made up just by the mere doing of something that has no legal authorization by the constitution, and has been done for decades by all presidents!

Here is what our Constitution says:

Article II
Section 1.
The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2.
The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3.
He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4.
The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Show me where any president has this grand power please, am I missing something?

Ken

No...your not missing it...it is not in the constitution to miss. That is what makes it usurpation. I posted links to study above. Or better yet see if you can help me find out more about it and what we can do about it.

Originally Posted by xchange

i don't know , i still have the benefit of the doubt. if it is true that will be a political suicide and will bring this country into a revolutionary war , civil war, race war and every kind of war you can name. there is no money. the country is in serious problem. unemployment is skyrocketing. don't believe washington if they say there's jobs open because it is not true. those jobs that are open because companies laid off employees who have been in the company for awhile being replaced by newly college grads for an entry level pay. i know this because my company is doing it. they are giving college grads jobs displacing workers between the age of 35 and 55 forcing 55 and over into an early retirement. i dont think GOP will allow this to happen.

but if it does please tell me "we told you so". thanks.

I can only suggest that you look past all the "on the surface problems" and dig a little deeper.