Thread: LOU DOBBS transcripts 7-19, Feinstein, Cornyn, Poe

Also, senators raising serious questions about the prosecution and the imprisonment of Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. Two of those senators, Senator Dianne Feinstein, who led the hearing today, and Senator John Cornyn, join me.

And the U.S. attorney at the center of this controversy, U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton, joins me as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: I have been calling for congressional hearings over the prosecution of former Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean for almost a year. Today, those hearings began in the U.S. Senate.

The two men were convicted last March of shooting and wounding an illegal alien drug smuggler which they pursued in a high-speed chase. The drug smuggler was giving immunity for prosecution to testify against those two agents. Ramos and Compean are now serving 11- and 12-year sentences in federal prison.

It was the Senate Judiciary Committee today that heard testimony, statements from their witnesses. A House committee, by the way, will be holding hearings on Ramos and Compean later this month.

Of the 19 senators on the Judiciary, five were in attendance. And, as Casey Wian reports, they had some tough questions for the U.S. attorney who led the prosecution of those two former Border Patrol agents.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: That will be included in the report.

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was standing room only for a Senate hearing into the Bush administration's prosecution of two Border Patrol agents for shooting and wounding a Mexican drug smuggler. Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean have already served six months of 11- and 12-year terms for the 2005 Texas border shooting.

FEINSTEIN: I have not heard many people argue that agents Ramos and Compean deserve the length of these sentences.

WIAN: The agent admit not properly reporting the shooting, but insist illegal alien drug smuggler Osbaldo Aldrete-Davila was pointing a gun at them.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: The public sees two Border Patrol agents serving long prison sentences, while an admitted drug dealer goes free.

WIAN: Senators demanded to know why prosecutors working for U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton gave a drug cartel member immunity to testify against the agents.

JOHNNY SUTTON, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS: They are not heroes. They deliberately shot an unarmed man in the back without justification, destroyed evidence to cover it up, and lied about it.

WIAN: Congressional supporters of the agents dispute that.

REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: Two of America's brave Border Patrol defenders have had their lives destroyed by what I see as an elitist, arrogant and overreaching prosecutor who believes that protecting the civil rights of illegal alien criminals is worth destroying the lives of law enforcement officers for minor procedural violations.

WIAN: Sutton says, his prosecutors didn't have enough evidence to charge Davila, even though he admitted to smuggling 743 pounds of marijuana the day he was shot.

DAVID L. BOTSFORD, APPELLATE COUNSEL FOR RAMOS: Why Mr. Sutton says that he can't be prosecuted bewilders me, because I believe any first-year prosecutor could get an indictment and successfully prosecute him.

WIAN: Current and former Border Patrol officials defended the prosecution of the two agents.

LUIS BARKER, DEPUTY CHIEF, OFFICE OF BORDER PATROL, U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: From the standpoint of policy, I can't think of anything that needs to be changed. And I don't disagree that the penalty is disproportionate.

WIAN: Disproportional because Sutton's prosecutors charged the agents with a federal firearm offense that carries a 10-year mandatory minimum sentence.

Sutton did admit one mistake, the decision to give Davila an unrestricted border crossing card the DEA says allowed him to smuggle even more drugs into the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy was a drug dealer.

SUTTON: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And does it concern you that -- does that decision concern you? Do you agree with that decision?

SUTTON: I think, looking back on that with 20/20 hindsight, that probably wasn't a very wise move.

WIAN: Border Patrol Chief David Aguilar may have provided more evidence for the agents' supporters. He told senators there have been nearly 2,000 assaults against Border Patrol agents since 2005, and 144 agents discharged their weapons.

But prosecutors in the Ramos-Compean case prevented jurors from hearing testimony about violence on the Mexican border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Senator Feinstein says she will look into changing the federal law that requires a 10-year sentence for a gun crime to exempt law enforcement officers in the line of duty. The House plans another hearing in two weeks. It's expected to focus on, among other things, the possible influence of the Mexican government on the agents' prosecution -- Lou.

DOBBS: And, today, discussion of cell phone calls and the likelihood that the drug smuggler, Aldrete-Davila, had two cell phones in his possession and used them, and that that might have been what the agents perceived to be a gun.

WIAN: Absolutely. There was a cell phone in the van that Davila was driving. He also said he had another cell phone in his possession. That second cell phone was never found. A lot of folks believe that may have been the shiny object that the agents saw pointing at them.

DOBBS: And, as he, Aldrete-Davila, fled across the Rio Grande to the Mexican side, two vehicles were waiting for him, with testimony, within five minutes of his fleeing the pursuing Border Patrol agents.

WIAN: And he never told investigators who was in those two vehicles, despite the fact that he had an immunity agreement to fully cooperate -- Lou.

DOBBS: Well, that will be one of the issues that I take up with the U.S. attorney who led this prosecution, Johnny Sutton, and others -- coming up here in just a matter of moments.

Casey, thank very much -- Casey Wian, who has been reporting on this for just the better part of a year now this case, this controversy, and what mostly is a miscarriage of justice.

Thank you very much.

We would like to know what you think about this case. Our poll question tonight centers directly on it. The question is: Do you believe Congress is serious about correcting the outrageous miscarriage of justice against former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean, yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We will have the results here later in the broadcast.

Time now for some of your thoughts.

Gary in California wrote in to say: "Dear Lou, the U.S. will not negotiate with terrorists, but will cut deals with Mexican drug smugglers to testify -- honestly, of course -- against our American Border Patrol agents, Ramos and Compean?" This could only be masterminded by the Bush administration. Brilliant."

Tom in South Dakota: "Lou, finally, a congressional investigation into the two border agents -- Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean. Every American should demand these agents be released. Call your elected representatives."

We will have more of your e-mails and thoughts here later in the broadcast.

Up next, illegal alien open border groups rallying on the steps of the U.S. Supreme Court, and they decided to target me today, saying there's no redemption. We will tell you what that means. We will have the story.

And we will have more on today's Senate hearing into the case of former Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean. We will hear from the prosecutor at the center of the controversy and two of the senators who today held a hearing.

Stay with us. We're coming right back.
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Coming up next, two of the senators today who led the hearing. Senator Dianne Feinstein and Senator John Cornyn, they join me. Congressman Ted Poe -- he was at the hearing today. He's been one of the most vocal supporters of Agents Ramos and Compean.

Stay with us.

We're continuing in just one minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: I'm joined now by Senator Dianne Feinstein, who led today's hearings into the Ramos and Compean case, and Senator John Cornyn. Together, they led the questioning over the -- the hearing.

If I may, Senator Feinstein, let me begin with you.

You were, frankly, far more determined than I expected. I thought you were aggressive.

Did you learn what you wanted to in today's hearing?

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Yes. I learned what I wanted to learn. And, basically, I think this is a case of prosecutorial overreach. Senator Cornyn and I have talked and we have decided that we will write a letter to the president and we will urge commutation of the sentence, both of Border Patrol Agent Ramos and Border Patrol Agent Compean.

DOBBS: Senator Feinstein, can I just say thank you?

That's amazing.

And Senator Cornyn, it is -- I think for those of us who have been following the case, to watch the five senators in that room today, to watch each of you, it was restore -- I think we could call it restorative.

You were looking for the truth. The idea of seeking computation -- I know two families that are going to be thrilled, as well as those two men, for your efforts.

What -- what changed -- if, indeed, your views were changed -- after today's hearing?

FEINSTEIN: Do you want to go ahead, John?

(CROSSTALK)

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Well, Lou, I would say I think, as Senator Feinstein indicated, this sentence was clearly excessive and mainly because of a statute that Congress never really intended would be applied to a law enforcement officer under these circumstances. It gave a minimum mandatory 10-year sentence stacked on top of the other offenses. And then, of course, there was the immunity deal offered to this drug dealer and an unlimited visa which allowed him to travel back and forth without supervision and probably allowed him to do another -- dump another load of narcotics in the United States.

A lot of -- a lot of mistakes, a lot of errors that just didn't need to be.

FEINSTEIN: But, if I -- if I might just add to that.

DOBBS: Sure.

FEINSTEIN: because I agree very much with what Senator Cornyn said. And I think the fact that he's a former Texas State Supreme Court jurist means something, a great deal, in all of this.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have sat on the Judiciary Committee now for some 14 years and hopefully have picked up some law.

The reason I say this is a prosecutorial overreach is because 12 counts were charged against these two men. There were, in fact, plea bargains. The plea bargains submitted by the prosecutors were for sentences maybe in the vicinity of two and three years. They were turned down by the defendants. What the jury didn't know was that the mandatory sentence was in one of these counts.

DOBBS: Right.

FEINSTEIN: And that mandatory sentence was 10 years. So if they found them guilty, they had no choice but to have 10 years put on top of everything else, which would have totaled about two years.

DOBBS: Well --

FEINSTEIN: So it seems to me that there is a good case that can be made for a commutation sentence.

DOBBS: A commutation of sentence. We -- we also have in Congress the House of Representatives pushing through Congressman Hunter's pardon, seeking a Congressional pardon for these agents. A pardon is also possible.

Do you think you're using -- obviously, you're referring to a commutation of sentence.

Why would a pardon not be as effective or as desirable, in your judgment, Senator Cornyn?

CORNYN: If I could weigh in on that. Let me just say that Senator Feinstein -- I'd would take her over a lot of lawyers I know any day.

DOBBS: After watching her today, I think a lot of people would agree with you. CORNYN: She's tough.

But I have to tell you that, of course, a pardon or commutation, which are both within the power of the president of the United States -- obviously, "Scooter" Libby getting a commutation of his sentence by the president recently. And I hope he'll give the same sort of consideration to these two Border Patrol Agents.

But I know Congressman Hunter, in the absence of that executive branch commutation or pardon, has introduced a bill.

I'm going to have to look at that to see if I -- I think that will fly. I think that's, in the absence of anything else, a good effort. But I think eventually this is going to be something the president is going to have to decide.

DOBBS: So --

FEINSTEIN: There's one thing that I'd just like to mention --

DOBBS: Yes, sir.

Yes, ma'am.

FEINSTEIN: -- that became clear to me in this case, that a law enforcement officer, faced with somebody that's bringing over $1,200,000 worth of marijuana, and the culprit wants to escape. So the law enforcement officer says, Stop!" And the culprit just keeps going.

Now, he cannot fire. He cannot stop him. So he is faced with either having to outrun him -- and let's say it's a 45-year-old police officer.

DOBBS: Yes.

FEINSTEIN: How does he outrun a 22-year-old?

The fact is, he can't. And I think this may be one of the reasons why we've got so much -- so much drugs coming across the border.

DOBBS: Yes.

FEINSTEIN: Some -- a law enforcement officer says, "Stop!" and it means nothing.

DOBBS: Yes.

All right, so much --

FEINSTEIN: And this we've to take a look at.

DOBBS: Yes, Senators, to both of your credit, you referred to what Congress needs to do here. We've had a 30 year war on drugs and the tragedies and the casualties in that war have been enormous. We've got to come to terms with it. I want to -- I just have to say, as one who's been following this case carefully, closely and looking for justice for these two agents, I'm moved by your decision, both of you, to seek a commutation from the president.

I hope that your interest will continue.

And we thank you for your interest to this point.

It was a remarkable proceeding today.

I have to tell you, as you both know, that I'm some -- I'm a -- I'm a rigorous critic of Congress.

FEINSTEIN: Oh, yes.

DOBBS: It's nice to see Congress, Senator Feinstein --

CORNYN: we've noticed that, Lou.

DOBBS: It is nice to see Congress, the Senate and the persons of yourselves doing the job that the people put you in office for. I just can't commend you too highly for your efforts and for your good hearts.
Thank you, both.

FEINSTEIN: Thank you.
CORNYN: Thanks, Lou.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you.
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Congressman Ted Poe has written a letter to President Bush. He's demanding a presidential pardon for imprisoned Border Patrol agents Ramos and Compean.

Congressman Poe joins us now.

Congressman, good to have you here.

REP. TED POE (R), TEXAS: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: I don't know if you were able to hear -- I know you attended the hearing in the -- over at the Dirksen Building in the Senate today. I don't know if you heard Senators Cornyn and Feinstein say they're going to seek a commutation of sentence for the president for Agents Ramos and Compean.

Your reaction?

POE: I'm glad to see that our Senate is responding this way. I think a commutation is appropriate. Of course, I -- I think a pardon would be appropriate because in this case, Lou, the prosecution had to choose between drug dealers or between border agents that violated some policy in which to prosecute. I think they chose the wrong side.

And since they chose the wrong side and gave away, really, the courthouse and the mineral rights to the drug dealer to get him to testify, the border agents should be pardoned completely.

DOBBS: And we should point out to our audience, you're a former judge in Texas, a man who is intimately familiar with the case. You also know U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton.

Straightforwardly, you heard Dianne Feinstein, Democrat of California, a senator -- a distinguished senator -- say this was, in her mind, a clear case of overreach by the prosecutor.

Do you concur?

POE: No question about it. It was. I think what the testimony showed today was that the U.S. attorney's office was relentless in making sure that they got a conviction against these two border agents. And it was very disturbing how much resources were used in the prosecution of this case and how they chose to prosecute them. And it's very disturbing that our U.S. attorney's office is doing this.

DOBBS: Well, Congressman, the House will be holding a hearing on the 31st of this month, two weeks from today.

What do you expect to be the focal point?

POE: The House hearing, I think, will pick up where this hearing left off and go a little further, to find out, really, the motivation of the U.S. attorney's office in not only this case, but other cases, like Gilmer Hernandez, who was prosecuted by the same office.

DOBBS: Right. A county sheriff's deputy.

Well, Congressman, Ted Poe, we thank you.

We look forward to that hearing and we thank you for being here with us tonight.

POE: Thank you, Lou.

Coming up next, we'll have the results of our poll and a few more of your thoughts.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

Well, good for Sen. Feinstein and Cornyn. Now if we can get Feinstein to see that there is not a great need for legalizing more agricultural workers when harvesting equipment can do such a better job. These people who are now here will be able to take what they have learned in the US back to their homelands and make them into better places to live. God bless us all....