Thread: Proving legal residence for driver's license

Well, we got what we wanted in our state as far as requiring legal residence to obtain a driver's license. This state had become a magnet for those who wanted to obtain those credentials in an unscrupulous fashion, but finally our legislature enacted law to make legal residency a requirement.

Now the motor vehicle department needs to craft a policy to ensure that that legislation is adhered to. So, all of this week it is holding public hearings around the state. Opponents of the legislation may argue that it will be difficult to make sure any document is not false, or that some people who are legal residents may not be able to prove that fact and so be denied critical driving privileges. So the DMV is between a rock and a hard place: making sure it denies privileges in accordance with the new law but being generous and reasonable with those who have a legitimate need within the provisions of the law. So how will they do this? The ball is now in our court; we should come up with suggestions so that they can fairly implement this and guarantee that lawful residents will be able to drive legally.

Some people are bound to say that it is simply unworkable.

What ID is universally available but hard to forge? What do those on a temporary visa show at the DMV office----- that cannot be duplicated by sophisticated copying machines. While original birth certificates would generally be valid, many people no longer have those in their possession. I didn't and had to get new one, but the new ones could be forged by a sophisticated copying device. I will say that the paper has a significant amount of watermarks, but I don't think it is impossible to forge. A non legal resident could find someone with a similar ethnic background and age who did have a birth certificate and make a copy.

I expect that Motor Vehicles will have to come up with a final list of ACCEPTABLE ID, that is nearly tamper proof.

Well the ball is in our court now. Any suggestions?

I was aware of this initiative - and was considering the best position to offer.

Here's what I was thinking:

1). Use an existing guideline from another state that has very strict policies as our solution.

2). Get highly visible politicians ('friendlies') as well as other people to publicly support such a policy.

Another thing I'd throw out as a caution or disclaimer is to focus less on the particular document/production aspect but focus more on the processes and requirements (especially in terms of inter-organizational sharing/checking of information) in producing the new license. The information validation is really the key process by which to ensure a bonafide license is issued to people that can legally receive them.

Ron, I just thought about this one, why not use fingerprints while in the process? Banks use them when you cash a check with them and you don't have an account there, why not DMV?

I do not have a problem with providing my fingerprint, so it would make it impossible for an illegal alien to attempt to use my ID, since it will be in tandem with MY fingerprints, not something they can fake.

Then...if they do get bold enough to try to fake their ID's along with providing their fingerprints, this makes it easier for the FBI and ICE to track them down and catch them, being able to charge them with falsifying information to a government agency and ID theft.

Are either of you going to any meetings? I'm going tomorrow, the 15th. Introduce yourselves. I may use an assumed name--I believe in keeping a low profile.

Had no idea about going or not. What time and where is it at?

For AE, Captainron:

(Rec'd from OFIR on Apr 12) -

[quote]
OFIR members and supporters:

The time of hearings was inadvertently omitted from the announcement sent earlier today. All hearings are scheduled to start at 6 p.m.



Public input sought for new driver license ID rules

The OR Department of Motor Vehicles will hold public hearings beginning April 15, “to help DMV determine what documents will be required to prove citizenship or show that an individual is in the country legally.â€

Correct that. I'm going the 16th.

I just thought about this one, why not use fingerprints while in the process?

I guess the question I would ask about fingerprints is "How do we make sure the person even has the initial right to be putting their fingerprint on something?" That is why having tamper proof documents that are available to the right people and not to the wrong people is critical. I think governments will have to get up to speed on what is counterfeitable nowadays and what is not---just as we have had to do with federal reserve notes. One problem is that it will have an additonal cost to produce those--hopefully offset by other law enforcement savings.

I think we need to specify a list of acceptable documents:
1. Are US passports counterfeitable? Not too much
2. State issued birth certificates? They're are not too bad, you have to answer exacting questions, there should be additional security features. But an artful crook could counterfeit one.
3. Military ID?

State employees also need to be trained to spot fakes. We can bet that there are bound to be cries of racial profiling.

The racial profiling thing is completely bogus. The first thing that tips me off that someone does not belong here is that they have ZERO knowledge of the English language, and that they seem to not "get" anything (as in their way around, our driving laws, etc...).

Here is how landlords are supposed to handle it when they are dealing with background checks, and doing it right. They should always ask for ID and SSNO. Both can and should be checked, regardless of a persons apparent legal status, appearance, or language. If the perspective tenant cannot pass a criminal (no way to verify who they are or ID comes up as being questionable) and has no verifiable SSNO or SSNO comes up as questionable, the landlord has the right, and obligation to other tenants, to say NO to this person, since there is no way to verify they do not have a violent past, one littered with sexual predatory behavior, one with weapons and also drugs.

So if landlords can use these systems to screen applicants, then why the heck cannot our own DMV do the same? Driving is not a right, it is a privelage and thus, if a legitimate state citizen wants a license he/she should be willing to provide legit forms of ID, as well as be willing to wait, in order to secure our driving privelage system against non-citizens and potential national security threats.

As for the meeting, I really want to go Wednesday, and am thinking of it, I am going to go over my scheduling and make room.

I don't know about your state but in CA you have to have a full set of fingerprints done to get your real estate license.