Thread: Use of the word "Traitor"

I am new to this group, and I joined not because I am an arch-conservative taking action but because it looks like a respectful place to discuss the topic for which I have a personal interest. My wife is a legal immigrant. She went through all the hoops and hell of adhering to US immigration law, and I searched my heart intensely when deciding whether she would truly be a beneficial member of our society and not a parasite. For those who might not believe my sincerity, take a long hard look at our immigration policies and procedures, and you will see that I staked my financial future on it. It is not fair for those who honestly came to this country to tolerate those here illegally.

I must take issue with the leader of this organization calling those who oppose Arizona SB 1070 as traitors. It appears to be a violation of the terms and conditions of comments on this website, and I fail to see the benefit in phrasing your objections in this way. Make no mistake, I see the wisdom and usefulness in SB 1070. If a policeman has a reasonable suspicion that I am driving under the influence, I expect him to stop me, and this has happened. I don't drink at all if I have to drive, but I have no animosity if someone checks. Similarly, I would expect a policeman to make inquiries if he thinks I am in America illegally.

This forum seeks to take action against illegal immigration. Furthermore, you should do more to support and better define legal immigration as your organization's title suggests, but that post is for another day. I think you will do your cause a big improvement by not necessarily condemning those who oppose SB 1070 as traitors. I think the majority of those you condemn are in a sense, on your side and have just as many concerns about illegal immigration.

So what is the problem of those who oppose SB 1070? I think they object to what the law might become by those who apply it overzealously. That authorities approach it with German Nazi mentality, with malignent intent for search and seizure of minorities. I can entirely symphathize with a Hispanic legal resident who fears beatings, mass roundups, and maniacal application of the letter of the law for something as trivial as a forgotten green card. Moreover, I would be very surprised if many of you really advocate a German Nazi approach to solving the problem.

The disagreement is a minor thing that threatens the more important objective to take on the problem of illegal immigration. There may be a few true traitors who support illegal immigration as a means to destroy the USA, but the President is not one of them, as most others are not, too. They fear a Nazi state, and I must admit that I have similar concerns. Rather than brand them as traitors, I seek to engage those who oppose SB 1070 and find solutions. Find ways to properly train and control our police force to ensure they act responsibly. Help define police policies to ensure nobody is abused, including the illegals.

So what is the problem of those who oppose SB 1070? I think they object to what the law might become by those who apply it overzealously. That authorities approach it with German Nazi mentality, with malignent intent for search and seizure of minorities. I can entirely symphathize with a Hispanic legal resident who fears beatings, mass roundups, and maniacal application of the letter of the law for something as trivial as a forgotten green card. Moreover, I would be very surprised if many of you really advocate a German Nazi approach to solving the problem.

beatings ? pass on that ...

search and seizure of minorities ? nope , don't want that either ...

mass round ups ? if their illegals , yep !

As far as being nazi's ... yeah no i'm going to have to digress on that one ...

I tend to agree with you on most topics cited. You raise good points; however, being forced to wear a seat belt by law can also be construed in the same Nazi type activity. The way I see it is more laws are enforced with legal Americans than illegals ones. Read the book Civil War II by Thomas Chitthum. Then you will see that we must stop illegal immigration and even curtail legal immigration.

Welcome to ALIPAC, pourpaix.

Since you are new to the illegal immigration debate you may not be aware
that many of the voices opposed to SB 1070 have proven their traitorous
on other issues long before SB 1070 was a twinkle in someone's eye.

For example the mayor of Los Angeles, Tony Villaraigosa, who has proven
to be a big time open borders lobbiest and has turned LA into a cess pool
of a sanctuary city. There's the Govenor of Texas, Rick Perry, who talks
the talk of sealing Texas' borders but has continously left the door wide
open for illegal immigrants for years while the citizens of his state cry for
security while he says a SB 1070 type bill is not right for Texas. Then
there's the Congressional Hispanic Caucus many members have ties to
La Raza, MeCHA and other groups that are committed to
turning our country over to Mexico. If it waddles like a traitor and
quacks like a traitor.

Yes there are those who oppose the bill, simply because they haven't read
it, who were told by someone who heard someone say that it would lead
to racial profiling or that nazis will be asking people for their papers or that
no one will be able to peacefully go out for ice cream. I wouldn't call those
people traitors, just misinformed.

Def

Traitor
1.a person who betrays another, a cause, or any trust.
2.a person who commits treason by betraying his or her country.

Article III Section 3 of the US Constitution delineates treason as follows:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Now, what part of this do you not see. The President of America AND the Congress are elected and serve to represent the PEOPLE (that being the majority).

Our President, Mr. Obama is a person who has betrayed another, a cause, or a trust. He continues to pass laws and agendas despite the majority not wanting it done. Remember, he serves the MAJORITY, not the minority or his own agenda.

Obama has also committed Treason against the United States, in a time of war as he is adhering to our Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. Obama has refused to secure our borders allowing anyone to come into the United States, including our enemies. As we have seen over and over again, not just good hard working families are coming into this country illegally. Along with the "hard working" are drug dealers, gang members, murders, rapists, child molesters as well as terrorists. Americans and our law enforcement are being murdered, raped, molested and kidnapped and out President and Congress are doing absolute NOTHING to stop the flow of criminals coming over our borders at free will.

Remember too, the majority of Americans are against illegal immigration and want these criminals out fo the USA. Yet Obama and our Congress once again, thumb their noses at the majority of us and do what they please. They have betrayed the trust of the majority thus being a traitor.

Arizona SB 1070 once again was created because the federal government, President of the USA and Congress have done nothing to seal our borders and protect this country. Thus by doing so Obama has once again adhered to the enemy, giving them aid and comfort. By doing this he has once again betrayed the trust of the majority.

This regardless of whether you like it or want to believe it or now makes the President of the USA Barak Obama a traitor. He should not be impeached, he should be tried as a traitor.

My wife also immigrated here legally, she also cared enough about the country that gave her the opportunity to live here and start a new life to become a citizen. It's like a stick in the eye to both of us to see millions just walk in here at will. Even worse to have a President and Congress that turns their backs and allows law breakers to do as they please.

My wife is Hispanic and has NO fear of beatings, mass roundups and maniacal application of the letter of the laws. Remember the law says an LEGAL IMMIGRANT has to carry a Green card at all times. So if you don't and get in trouble, then it is your own fault for not following the laws of this country. The is a country of laws, unlike Mexico, come here and follow our laws and you have no reason to worry. If people like your Hispanic friend took the time to read the law instead of listening to law breakers who haven't read it, he/she would understand that ID will not be ask unless you break a law. Again, follow our laws and you have nothing to worry about

Therefor, people who don't support this law are TRAITORS. Obama has betrayed the trust of the majority of Americans by turning his back on security of this Nation. Thus, he is a TRAITOR too.

I understand and symphatize with most comments, but over a long life have found I get more of my ideas implemented with reason instead of force. Like I said before, I am sure there are those with bona fide traitorous intent in their opposition to SB 1070. However, by accusing all who oppose SB 1070 as traitors, all that happens is the opposition becomes alienated. The worst thing that can happen is that those who have moral reservations or concerns will join those who truly are traitors, because you have unnecessarily identified yourself as a common enemy.

Look, I believe SB 1070 to be something our government should pursue. If someone has concerns that it will lead to abuse, then I am listening because what makes America special is that we respect the rights of individuals as people. I ask what can we do to solve this illegal immigration problem AND maintain our integrity and principles. Solving the honest objections will be far more effective in the end. Yes, we need to remove the illegals, but we don't need to beat them on the way to the border. If someone is against SB 1070 merely on concerns of potential abuse, I would far prefer our government take it up with police authorities and ensure we implement it in a humane way. And in this case, the objectors are correct. If the police beat every illegal on the way out of the country, every illegal will go home with revenge on his mind. We have a much better chance of regretting that in the future than if we politely show him the door.

I have also spent a lifetime as a political non-partisan. I neither trust nor mistrust elected officials based on their political party. But the Republicans are not inept nor fools. Obama could not possibly be guilty of treason or even be a non-citizen without someone taking action. And as far as I can see, Obama is not the one who is stonewalling immigration reform. The guidelines of these forums specifically forbid taking on assumptive positions to force an idea.

But more important than that ...... you want to be effective in getting SB 1070 implemented as well as effecting immigration reform. If you accuse everybody of being traitors, politicians on both sides will flee from the subject and just let it die. If it means taking action to define more humanist policies when showing illegals the exit door, then by all means take that action. If it means granting a few amnesties (but not general amnesty) to a few illegals who have shown their dedication to our principles and show little chance of being parasites, we should at least be willing to talk about it with sincerity.

If you want to be hounded, call Obama a traitor. For all I know, he is. But I can guarantee you will hurt your cause in doing so. Be effective, and write our elected officials respectful letters about your position. It's ok to say you disagree with their proposals, state your case, and ask them to talk about it. Listen to reservations and make suggestions to overcome their objections. And band together and be respectfully firm in stating your primary objective ...... something must be done to curtail illegal immigration, and sensible immigration reform is necessary. Just ignore the true traitors, and respectfully engage those who have the power to allow the objective to be achieved.

P.S. I too disagree with seat belt laws. I still wear one, but it is my decision that others have no right to dictate. It is also annoying to contend with all the laws that force honest people to go through a lot of effort to prove their honesty when the dishonest can simply disregard the laws and save themselves a lot of trouble. Green cards are a good example. My wife takes great care to have hers with her at all times. But, being human, we all have our stupid moments. I would expect that she be treated with respect if she had such a stupid moment. I've been around enough to know there are always reasons to worry about the worst happening.

P.P.S Another problem illegal immigration gives me. My wife has a son in Ukraine who is ineligible for immigration for no reason of unsuitability, just age. He recently discovered he has a serious heart condition. He is ineligible to join us in America, even temporarily to get treatment. He has no reason compelling him to return home, which means he cannot obtain a visitor's visa because so many others have cheated our system. I do not blame the immigration authorities as their position is probably the wisest. They don't know I would try my best to return him home, and I would. But I obviously could fail miserably. All because we cannot control illegal immigration. Don't think I am not on your side.

after your second post i think i understand what your trying to say ...

i too sometimes find myself turned off by the poltical extreamists who really fly off the handle when it comes to poltics , birthers ,etc ....

i absoutely agree that we should handle ourselves with dignity and respect while we discuss this issue , and we need to show that same respect to all indviduals ..

Originally Posted by pourpaix

P.P.S Another problem illegal immigration gives me. My wife has a son in Ukraine who is ineligible for immigration for no reason of unsuitability, just age. He recently discovered he has a serious heart condition. He is ineligible to join us in America, even temporarily to get treatment. He has no reason compelling him to return home, which means he cannot obtain a visitor's visa because so many others have cheated our system. I do not blame the immigration authorities as their position is probably the wisest. They don't know I would try my best to return him home, and I would. But I obviously could fail miserably. All because we cannot control illegal immigration. Don't think I am not on your side.

Before we got married my wife desired to come to America to see what her new home would be like. She had only seen it on TV and most was propaganda. However, she applied for a visitors visa and was turned down for the same reason. So many have cheated our system. That is why my wife is so mad about this same government turning their backs while Mexicans and Central American come over the border in droves, illegally. Then get rewarded for breaking the laws of this country by being granted amnesty. They are also once again rewarded when they come here illegally by getting free health care and free education. Amnesty of any kind is a slap in the face to every single legal immigrant who has come here in the past to make this country what it was before Obama took over.

Obama isn't interested in helping the poor illegal immigrant. he is only interested in the destruction of America so he can further his socialist agenda of forming the North American Union. He knows full well that the more poor, illiterate and lawless he can flood this country with makes it easier for him to shove this agenda down our throats.

America is through being nice about this. Being nice has gotten us all to this point where what the majority says doesn't matter. We elect people to Washington to represent us and they turn their back and stab us to death. We are fed up with the corruption and fed up with the lies. Our government is for the people and by the people. Washington as we know it is for big business at the expense of those who pay all the taxes. we are fed up and are to the point that the talking and writing letter is about to end. When states like Arizona have to take matters in their own hands because the federal government won't do their job, America has had enough. We are fed up with a government full of traitor and liars who bash this country and care more about those in other countries than they do the citizens of this country who sent them to represent us. At this point I don't think any of us care what Washington or Obama thinks. They are going to do what they want anyway. So it's time to take things to the next level and let Washington know this country belongs to the people, not Washington.

If you believe in following seat belt laws then why don't you agree that this government should also follow the laws of this land and enforce them? I find it truly a shame that Arizona has had to take such measures because our on federal government won't do their job of enforcing our immigration laws and protecting our borders against foreign enemies. What our government is doing is truly treasonous.

The President is failing to honor his oath of office and the US Constitution and instead is pursuing an agenda supported by elite financial and political interests.

Since his actions violate the essential principles and requirements of our Republic and since a super majority of Americans oppose what he is doing and the method he is using, we are using the words traitor and treason more often.

If you take issue with my choice of words representing this organization, then there is the door. Feel free to find yourself an organization that better suits your tastes.

You may feel that President Obama is not betraying us all, and that is your opinion but it is not an opinion shared by the majority of ALIPAC supporters.

Obama signaled his fellow conspirators today with the words 'Security and Prosperity' and those of us that have had our hands deeply in this issue for the last five years know exactly who he is speaking for when he says that. He is NOT speaking for the American public. He IS speaking for the Council on Foreign Relations, the US Chamber of Commerce, the big banks, and the cabal seeking to wreck the United States.

These people are traitors and I envision a day when Congress will investigate them, put them on trial, convict them, and put many of them in prison for the massive amount of murders, rapes, thefts, and degradation our innocent citizens are enduring due to their 'plans'.

If calling these people that want to usurp the self governance of the American people traitors is too strong or agressive for your tastes, the feel free to join another group or form your own.

William Gheen

pourpaix wrote:

So what is the problem of those who oppose SB 1070? I think they object to what the law might become by those who apply it overzealously. That authorities approach it with German Nazi mentality, with malignent intent for search and seizure of minorities. I can entirely symphathize with a Hispanic legal resident who fears beatings, mass roundups, and maniacal application of the letter of the law for something as trivial as a forgotten green card. Moreover, I would be very surprised if many of you really advocate a German Nazi approach to solving the problem.

A position peppered with more Nazi analogies, hyperbole, and flat out lies! They object to the law because it's going to identify illegal invaders and likely lead to their deportation. That's why they oppose it.

I don't need to listen to anyone who compares 1070 to a homicidal regime, responsible for the torture and slaughter of over 6 million innocent Jews!