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Blackwater Training US Police
Wayne Madsen Report
10-15-7
The mercenary firm Blackwater USA is well known for the controversy involving its "shoot first, ask no questions" policy in Iraq. It is also known that Louisiana's Department of Homeland Security contracted with Blackwater to provide public law enforcement services in New Orleans following hurricane Katrina. Blackwater is also planning to establish regional training centers in Potrero, California and Mount Carroll, Illinois, billed as Blackwater West and Blackwater North, respectively.
These training centers, in addition to Blackwater's Lodge and Training Center in Moyock, North Carolina -- Blackwater East -- and a possible fourth rumored to be slated for the Pacific Northwest -- Blackwater Northwest -- may result in the establishment of a network of Blackwater-trained police, sheriffs, and other police units around the country. Given Blackwater's dismal record on human rights and brutality, this spells trouble for civilian control of police and paramilitary forces in the United States, from major metropolitan areas to small rural towns.
On October 14, the Washington Post ran a story, which included photographs from Blackwater's Moyock training center. However, what was most intriguing was a photograph of a police and military patch board at Blackwater's headquarters that indicated the police agencies that have sent their officers to Moyock for training.
Blackwater is secretive about its non-federal, as well as its foreign clients, which the Post pointed out includes Jordan, Azerbaijan, and Burkina Faso, but a WMR inspection of the photograph of the police agencies has yielded the following list of agencies that have used Blackwater for training:
1. Iowa Department of Natural Resources
2. Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff's Department
3. Matthews, North Carolina Police
4. Atlanta Police
5. Chillicothe, Ohio Police
6. Charleston, South Carolina Police
7. Port Chester, NY Police
8. Highland, Indiana Police
9. Unalaska, Alaska Police
10. Metropolitan Washington, DC Police
11. Charlottesville, Virginia Police
12. Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (Dulles and Reagan National Airports)
13. St. Louis County Police (Missouri)
14. Queen Anne's County, Maryland Police
15. Prince George's County, Maryland Police
16. FBI SWAT Team
17. Gloucester Township, New Jersey Police
18. Tempe, Arizona Police
19. New York Police Department
20. Yonkers, New York Police
21. Fairfax County, Virginia Police
22. Maplewood, New Jersey Police
23. Gastonia, North Carolina Police
24. Tampa Police
25. U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
26. DeKalb County, Georgia Police
27. Arlington County, Virginia Police
28. Baltimore Police
29. U.S. Coast Guard
30. Suffolk, Virginia Police
31. Franklin City, Virginia Police
32. Milford, Delaware Police
33. University of Texas Police
34. Norfolk, Virginia Police
35. Ottawa-Carleton, Canada Police
36. San Bernardino County, California Sheriff
37. Plattsburgh, New York Police
38. Chicago Police Department
39. Oregon State Police
40. Los Angeles Police Department
41. Tonawanda, New York Police
42. Special Forces of Colombia
43. Jacksonville, North Carolina Police
44. Harvey Cedars, New Jersey Police
45. Elmira, New York Police
46. Department of Corrections, New Jersey
47. Lexington, Kentucky Police
48. Willimantic, Connecticut Police
49. Georgia Department of Law Enforcement
50. City of Fairfax, Virginia Police
51. Alexandria, Virginia Police Special Operations
52. Illinois State Police
53. Dallas, Texas Police
54. Hamilton, Ohio Police
55. Morganton, North Carolina Police
A number of the police departments that have been trained by Blackwater have abysmal civil rights and police brutality records, most notably the Chicago Police and Illinois State Police, both cited by former Illinois Governor George Ryan as being guilty of police misconduct in his decision to commute the death sentences of Illinois' death row inmates. It was a decision that likely had much to do with his indictment by the Bush administration on corruption charges -- political misuse of the Department of Justice that has been seen in the indictments and investigations of Alabama former Democratic Governor Don Siegelman and HealthSouth former CEO Richard Scrushy, Qwest's former CEO Joseph Nacchio, Democratic campaign contributor Martha Stewart, Coastal Corporation's former Chairman and Democratic contributor Oscar Wyatt, and Democratic-leaning trial attorneys around the United States, as well as the firings of several U.S. Attorneys who refused to engage in political prosecutions, and a Justice Department workup on North Carolina presidential candidate John Edwards in 2004.
The training and potential political indoctrination of police officers by the extreme right-wing and proto-fascist Blackwater, coupled with the politicization of the Justice Department and U.S. courts, has the potential for the streets of Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York, and Washington, DC, as well as Chillicothe, Harvey Cedars, and Elmira to turn as bloody as the streets of Baghdad and Fallujah.
Citizens have a distinct opportunity of confronting their local elected city, county, and town officials over Blackwater training of their police officers. Local officials should be pressured to reveal the numbers and identities of officers trained by Blackwater, the subjects covered by the training, the revenues spent, and a public demand should be made to cease and desist in such training. _________________ This Nation will remain the Land of the Free only as long as it is the Home of the Brave.
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:26 pm Post subject:
this should scare the hell out of everybody.... this just takes us closer to being a police state _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
I personally file this under the 50 year old who wears tin foil on his head and sits half naked in a basement analyzing static from his dads ham radio for secret government transmissions while his 80 year old mother downs percosets with lighter fluid category.
I have personal friends who work for Blackwater, I can tell you that it has NO thread of anti-Americanism. It is composed of ex-military veterans who are finally getting paid livable wages for their sacrifices and skills.
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:23 am Post subject:
I am a (Sapper) Engineer Ranger after 21.5 years and recently retired. There is no reason that a para-military force should be teaching combat tactics to local police.
The police academy should teach all that they need to know until the local training that should happen quarterly with daily update briefings
I make over a 100,000.00 a year and do not have to work for a para-military non governmental standing army of 25,000 men. If you check, new orleans was patrolled by black water during the Katrina mess... that was a serious NO NO that should have been handled by the National guard and the military if needed... not a para military force that is contracted with zero responsibility or consequences if it just happened to take someone out ... Wrooooong answer _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
Joined: Jul 06, 2005 Posts: 1544 Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:00 am Post subject:
AirborneSapper7 wrote:
I am a (Sapper) Engineer Ranger after 21.5 years and recently retired. There is no reason that a para-military force should be teaching combat tactics to local police.
The police academy should teach all that they need to know until the local training that should happen quarterly with daily update briefings
I make over a 100,000.00 a year and do not have to work for a para-military non governmental standing army of 25,000 men. If you check, new orleans was patrolled by black water during the Katrina mess... that was a serious NO NO that should have been handled by the National guard and the military if needed... not a para military force that is contracted with zero responsibility or consequences if it just happened to take someone out ... Wrooooong answer
I agree. Local police don't need to be trained by para-military. I don't trust Blackwater contractors to know or care if they are killing terrorists or innocent American citizens. I don't trust the government and their motivation to train state cops to act like Rambo. _________________
I am a (Sapper) Engineer Ranger after 21.5 years and recently retired. There is no reason that a para-military force should be teaching combat tactics to local police.
The police academy should teach all that they need to know until the local training that should happen quarterly with daily update briefings
I think the training is fast becoming necessary in order to deal with the ever present drug cartel that is moving in with MS13 and other criminals that do not play by the rules of the ordinary policeman.
Sad to say but the military tactics are becoming necessary on our streets.
Our policemen are at war and they need to be prepared.
I am a (Sapper) Engineer Ranger after 21.5 years and recently retired. There is no reason that a para-military force should be teaching combat tactics to local police.
The police academy should teach all that they need to know until the local training that should happen quarterly with daily update briefings
I make over a 100,000.00 a year and do not have to work for a para-military non governmental standing army of 25,000 men. If you check, new orleans was patrolled by black water during the Katrina mess... that was a serious NO NO that should have been handled by the National guard and the military if needed... not a para military force that is contracted with zero responsibility or consequences if it just happened to take someone out ... Wrooooong answer
What do you mean by zero responsibility? They are subject to more oversight and regulations than any institution you can think of in the military. This article is designed to somehow connect this group to an "overall" conspiracy theory. It has the intellectual muscle of an 4th grader struggling with an eposide of Stargate. It's propgandistic purposes are obvious.
Blackwater didn't "patrol" Katrina, they deployed a puma helicopter for search and rescue. They did NOT engage in any enforcement activity. Zero. So if you are going to make what I consider specious accusations, you mind demonstrating the contract that provides for zero accountability? It DOES NOT exist. The National Guard did patrol Katrina. I am not sure what NO No you are talking about, but being ex-military as you have stated, you would then have a decent picture of the composition of Blackwater as fellow combat vets, which would let you understand their true character. Please stop painting wild and outrageous pictures of some bizarre action that never took place. Do I think that they should be training police? Absolutely! They will do it better and more efficiently than the police can. I would much rather learn from an 18b than a Bureacrat 101, 18b's are taught to train and lead.
We have to get off of and police away this black helicopter conspiracy stuff. It is utter nonsense.
Chosen, just the other day on c-span the man who wrote the book "Blackwater" ( not the full name of the book) but should be able to find it on the internet, Was on there talking about Blackwater and the trouble in iraq and how they could not be held accountable, and how they were used in New Orleans after Katrina,there was alot of problems with the way they treated citizens, it is all in the book. But I guess the guy has done alot of research on Blackwater and his resources should be in the book.
Anyone who is interested should read it, I do think I will buy it as there is alot of speculation going around. But I can see why for anyone who watched him on c-span. _________________ AUT*AGERE*AUT*MORI (EITHER ACTION OR DEATH)
I also would like to say, if Blackwater was running a training facility I would think that would be an asset for training police officers as they are up against some bad cartel these days, I have watched and Listened to Eric Prince on C-span and he seems like an intelligant man.
But I am not so sure it is a good Idea to have a huge private military growing in the United States, even with knowing their intentions are good. So I say replace some of our Military around the world with Backwater and bring home some of our U.S. Military to protect our homeland!! _________________ AUT*AGERE*AUT*MORI (EITHER ACTION OR DEATH)
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:
Quote:
What do you mean by zero responsibility? They are subject to more oversight and regulations than any institution you can think of in the military. This article is designed to somehow connect this group to an "overall" conspiracy theory. It has the intellectual muscle of an 4th grader struggling with an eposide of Stargate. It's propgandistic purposes are obvious.
Blackwater didn't "patrol" Katrina, they deployed a puma helicopter for search and rescue. They did NOT engage in any enforcement activity. Zero. So if you are going to make what I consider specious accusations, you mind demonstrating the contract that provides for zero accountability? It DOES NOT exist. The National Guard did patrol Katrina. I am not sure what NO No you are talking about, but being ex-military as you have stated, you would then have a decent picture of the composition of Blackwater as fellow combat vets, which would let you understand their true character. Please stop painting wild and outrageous pictures of some bizarre action that never took place. Do I think that they should be training police? Absolutely! They will do it better and more efficiently than the police can. I would much rather learn from an 18b than a Bureacrat 101, 18b's are taught to train and lead.
We have to get off of and police away this black helicopter conspiracy stuff. It is utter nonsense.
I think you need to get up to speed on Black Water
This is what my taxpayer dollars is going for... an out of control mercenary army... They have actually pulled weapons on US Soldiers and disarmed them after a traffic accident
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: Support Our Troops Iraq War For Sale Bush Cheney Halliburton
Quote:
What do you mean by zero responsibility? They are subject to more oversight and regulations than any institution you can think of in the military. This article is designed to somehow connect this group to an "overall" conspiracy theory. It has the intellectual muscle of an 4th grader struggling with an eposide of Stargate. It's propgandistic purposes are obvious.
Blackwater Down
The frightening -- and possibly illegal -- presence of heavily armed private forces in New Orleans only demonstrates what everyone already feared: the utter breakdown of the government.
The men from Blackwater USA arrived in New Orleans right after Katrina hit.
The company known for its private security work guarding senior US diplomats in Iraq beat the federal government and most aid organizations to the scene in another devastated Gulf. About 150 heavily armed Blackwater troops dressed in full battle gear spread out into the chaos of New Orleans. Officially, the company boasted of its forces "join[ing] the hurricane relief effort." But its men on the ground told a different story.
Some patrolled the streets in SUVs with tinted windows and the Blackwater logo splashed on the back; others sped around the French Quarter in an unmarked car with no license plates. They congregated on the corner of St. James and Bourbon in front of a bar called 711, where Blackwater was establishing a makeshift headquarters. From the balcony above the bar, several Blackwater guys cleared out what had apparently been someone's apartment. They threw mattresses, clothes, shoes and other household items from the balcony to the street below. They draped an American flag from the balcony's railing. More than a dozen troops from the 82nd Airborne Division stood in formation on the street watching the action.
Armed men shuffled in and out of the building as a handful told stories of their past experiences in Iraq. "I worked the security detail of both Bremer and Negroponte," said one of the Blackwater guys, referring to the former head of the US occupation, L. Paul Bremer, and former US Ambassador to Iraq John Negroponte. Another complained, while talking on his cell phone, that he was getting only $350 a day plus his per diem. "When they told me New Orleans, I said, 'What country is that in?'" he said. He wore his company ID around his neck in a case with the phrase Operation Iraqi Freedom printed on it.
In an hourlong conversation I had with four Blackwater men, they characterized their work in New Orleans as "securing neighborhoods" and "confronting criminals." They all carried automatic assault weapons and had guns strapped to their legs. Their flak jackets were covered with pouches for extra ammunition.
When asked what authority they were operating under, one guy said, "We're on contract with the Department of Homeland Security." Then, pointing to one of his comrades, he said, "He was even deputized by the governor of the state of Louisiana. We can make arrests and use lethal force if we deem it necessary." The man then held up the gold Louisiana law enforcement badge he wore around his neck. Blackwater spokesperson Anne Duke also said the company has a letter from Louisiana officials authorizing its forces to carry loaded weapons.
"This vigilantism demonstrates the utter breakdown of the government," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights. "These private security forces have behaved brutally, with impunity, in Iraq. To have them now on the streets of New Orleans is frightening and possibly illegal."
Blackwater is not alone. As business leaders and government officials talk openly of changing the demographics of what was one of the most culturally vibrant of America's cities, mercenaries from companies like DynCorp, Intercon, American Security Group, Blackhawk, Wackenhut and an Israeli company called Instinctive Shooting International (ISI) are fanning out to guard private businesses and homes, as well as government projects and institutions. Within two weeks of the hurricane, the number of private security companies registered in Louisiana jumped from 185 to 235. Some, like Blackwater, are under federal contract. Others have been hired by the wealthy elite, like F. Patrick Quinn III, who brought in private security to guard his $3 million private estate and his luxury hotels, which are under consideration for a lucrative federal contract to house FEMA workers.
A possibly deadly incident involving Quinn's hired guns underscores the dangers of private forces policing American streets. On his second night in New Orleans, Quinn's security chief, Michael Montgomery, who said he worked for an Alabama company called Bodyguard and Tactical Security (BATS), was with a heavily armed security detail en route to pick up one of Quinn's associates and escort him through the chaotic city. Montgomery told me they came under fire from "black gangbangers" on an overpass near the poor Ninth Ward neighborhood. "At the time, I was on the phone with my business partner," he recalls. "I dropped the phone and returned fire."
Montgomery says he and his men were armed with AR-15s and Glocks and that they unleashed a barrage of bullets in the general direction of the alleged shooters on the overpass. "After that, all I heard was moaning and screaming, and the shooting stopped. That was it. Enough said."
Then, Montgomery says, "the Army showed up, yelling at us and thinking we were the enemy. We explained to them that we were security. I told them what had happened and they didn't even care. They just left." Five minutes later, Montgomery says, Louisiana state troopers arrived on the scene, inquired about the incident and then asked him for directions on "how they could get out of the city." Montgomery says that no one ever asked him for any details of the incident and no report was ever made. "One thing about security," Montgomery says, "is that we all coordinate with each other--one family." That co-ordination doesn't include the offices of the Secretaries of State in Louisiana and Alabama, which have no record of a BATS company.
A few miles away from the French Quarter, another wealthy New Orleans businessman, James Reiss, who serves in Mayor Ray Nagin's administration as chairman of the city's Regional Transit Authority, brought in some heavy guns to guard the elite gated community of Audubon Place: Israeli mercenaries dressed in black and armed with M-16s. Two Israelis patrolling the gates outside Audubon told me they had served as professional soldiers in the Israeli military, and one boasted of having participated in the invasion of Lebanon. "We have been fighting the Palestinians all day, every day, our whole lives," one of them tells me. "Here in New Orleans, we are not guarding from terrorists." Then, tapping on his machine gun, he says, "Most Americans, when they see these things, that's enough to scare them."
The men work for ISI, which describes its employees as "veterans of the Israeli special task forces from the following Israeli government bodies: Israel Defense Force (IDF), Israel National Police Counter Terrorism units, Instructors of Israel National Police Counter Terrorism units, General Security Service (GSS or 'Shin Beit'), Other restricted intelligence agencies." The company was formed in 1993. Its website profile says: "Our up-to-date services meet the challenging needs for Homeland Security preparedness and overseas combat procedures and readiness. ISI is currently an approved vendor by the US Government to supply Homeland Security services."
Unlike ISI or BATS, Blackwater is operating under a federal contract to provide 164 armed guards for FEMA reconstruction projects in Louisiana. That contract was announced just days after Homeland Security Department spokesperson Russ Knocke told the Washington Post he knew of no federal plans to hire Blackwater or other private security firms. "We believe we've got the right mix of personnel in law enforcement for the federal government to meet the demands of public safety," he said. Before the contract was announced, the Blackwater men told me, they were already on contract with DHS and that they were sleeping in camps organized by the federal agency.
One might ask, given the enormous presence in New Orleans of National Guard, US Army, US Border Patrol, local police from around the country and practically every other government agency with badges, why private security companies are needed, particularly to guard federal projects. "It strikes me…that that may not be the best use of money," said Illinois Senator Barack Obama.
Blackwater's success in procuring federal contracts could well be explained by major-league contributions and family connections to the GOP. According to election records, Blackwater's CEO and co-founder, billionaire Erik Prince, has given tens of thousands to Republicans, including more than $80,000 to the Republican National Committee the month before Bush's victory in 2000. This past June, he gave $2,100 to Senator Rick Santorum's re-election campaign. He has also given to House majority leader Tom DeLay and a slew of other Republican candidates, including Bush/Cheney in 2004. As a young man, Prince interned with President George H.W. Bush, though he complained at the time that he "saw a lot of things I didn't agree with--homosexual groups being invited in, the budget agreement, the Clean Air Act, those kind of bills. I think the Administration has been indifferent to a lot of conservative concerns."
Prince, a staunch right-wing Christian, comes from a powerful Michigan Republican family, and his father, Edgar, was a close friend of former Republican presidential candidate and antichoice leader Gary Bauer. In 1988 the elder Prince helped Bauer start the Family Research Council. Erik Prince's sister, Betsy, once chaired the Michigan Republican Party and is married to Dick DeVos, whose father, billionaire Richard DeVos, is co-founder of the major Republican benefactor Amway. Dick DeVos is also a big-time contributor to the Republican Party and will likely be the GOP candidate for Michigan governor in 2006. Another Blackwater founder, president Gary Jackson, is also a major contributor to Republican campaigns.
After the killing of four Blackwater mercenaries in Falluja in March 2004, Erik Prince hired the Alexander Strategy Group, a PR firm with close ties to GOPers like DeLay. By mid-November the company was reporting 600 percent growth. In February 2005 the company hired Ambassador Cofer Black, former coordinator for counterterrorism at the State Department and former director of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center, as vice chairman. Just as the hurricane was hitting, Blackwater's parent company, the Prince Group, named Joseph Schmitz, who had just resigned as the Pentagon's Inspector General, as the group's chief operating officer and general counsel.
While juicing up the firm's political connections, Prince has been advocating greater use of private security in international operations, arguing at a symposium at the National Defense Industrial Association earlier this year that firms like his are more efficient than the military. In May Blackwater's Jackson testified before Congress in an effort to gain lucrative Homeland Security contracts to train 2,000 new Border Patrol agents, saying Blackwater understands "the value to the government of one-stop shopping." With President Bush using the Katrina disaster to try to repeal Posse Comitatus (the ban on using US troops in domestic law enforcement) and Blackwater and other security firms clearly initiating a push to install their paramilitaries on US soil, the war is coming home in yet another ominous way. As one Blackwater mercenary said, "This is a trend. You're going to see a lot more guys like us in these situations."
I would like to state I have been recruted by the US Military to become a Delta Force soldier 2 times in my military carrear and had to sit through thier briefings. As far as 18Bs being the ultimate trainer I would have a strong differance of oppinion, I have seen boobs trying to instruct... oh, I was a 21B Instructor writer for the Army Engineer School on 2 seperate occasions totaling 4 years and a drill sergeant for 2 so please dont push that off on me, others in here may by it but I do not
and although I am not super man I do think I am a little more qualified to speak on this subject a little more than others
Arctic Expert, JRC, Fort Greeley Alaska; Jungle Warfare Expert JWTC Fort Sherman, Panama; Battle of Grenada; Battle of Panama; Somalia Humanitarian Crisis; Haiti Humanitarian crisis; Gulf War I; Bosnia; Kosovo; Cold War / Eastern Warsaw Block Countries. Significant areas, Arctic (Alaska), Desert (Kuwait / Iraq), Mountains (Bosnia / Kosovo / Alaska); Significant Countries / Continents - Europe (Germany), South America (Panama / Honduras); Asia (Korea, Kuwait, Iraq)
Sapper Leader Course (Engineer Ranger)Fort Leonard Wood Missouri; Airborne School, Fort Benning Georgia; Air Assault School, Fort Campbell Kentucky; Drill Sergeant School, Fort Leonard Wood Missouri; NBC School - Nuclear, Biological, Chemical School; Hohenfels Germany; ANCOC - Advanced Non Commissioned Officer Course, Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri; BNCOC - Basic Non Commissioned Officer Course, Hohenfels Germany; PNCOC - Primary Non Commissioned Officer Course, Fort Richardson Alaska.
Airborne Wings, Air Assault Wings, Drill Sergeant Badge, GAFET - German Armed Forces Efficiency Tab (Gold Medal), Shutzenschnier - German Marksmanship Badge (Bronze Medal), Good Conduct Medal - 7th Award, Meritorious Service Medal - 2nd Oak Leaf Cluster, NATO Service Ribbon, NCO Development Ribbon - 3rd Award, Army Commendation Medal - 3rd Oak leaf clusters, Army Achievement Medal - 3rd Oak leaf clusters, National Defense Service Medal, Rifle - Sharp Shooter, Grenade - Expert _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
Airborne, very impressive and I just want to say "Thank You " for serving our country, that is alot of years in the military and service to your country.
We are very fortunate to have you at ALIPAC but what a shame the country you fought for and served all those years is being taken over with out ever fireing a shot, just walking right in here and demanding their rights. America is in trouble alot of trouble!!
We are proud to have you fighting with us to take our country back.
As far as Blackwater goes they have pretty much been keep quiet for the past few years(or how ever long they have been around) most average citizens have never heard of them including myself, until this incident in Iraq.
my first thought was how could anyone get away with building a private military this size in the U.S., that is scary to me. Also anytime they do anything not out in the open will cause people to speculate. Although I can't say they were hiding, but the news never reported on them, I did not know they were in New Orleans until I seen it on c-span the other day.
I am interested in Blackwater as I think everyone should be, we should and have a right to know more about them, and what all they are being used for.
Just look what ignoreing illegal immigration got us, we the people need to pay better attention to what is happening in our country no matter what it is so it doesn't get out of hand and is to hard to fight. Especially anything that can be a detriment to our constitutional rights. _________________ AUT*AGERE*AUT*MORI (EITHER ACTION OR DEATH)
I personally file this under the 50 year old who wears tin foil on his head and sits half naked in a basement analyzing static from his dads ham radio for secret government transmissions while his 80 year old mother downs percosets with lighter fluid category.
I have personal friends who work for Blackwater, I can tell you that it has NO thread of anti-Americanism. It is composed of ex-military veterans who are finally getting paid livable wages for their sacrifices and skills.
If we are lucky, Blackwater's so-called"shoot first, ask no questions" policy in Iraq, will be applied to illegal aliens crossing the border. And perhaps they will also apply the same rules of engagement when assisting ICE raids in the future.
And what's wrong with a "shoot first, ask no questions" policy in Iraq? Why don't we fight in Iraq the same way we fought the Japanese in WWII?
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 12:46 am Post subject:
I have many problems with any para-military group and one of the biggest is blackwater .... these men make any good things (Nation Building) that our active duty soldiers do and trashes it. The local people loose the trust of our soldiers because they get grouped in with blackwater and these can lead to more of our soldiers deaths
Another is.... My tax dollars (You can do what ever you want with your money) BUT.... "I firmly believe in the How to make Mo Money with Yo Money" senario ... but keep your hands off of my money
I do not wish to give tax free dollars to a private company that encourages US soldiers to leave the military after we paid huge amounts of money to train them.
Blackwater pays quite a bit more than the military does... but hey... its just tax dollars and we will have to pay big money to train a new soldier so Blackwater can take them once they are trained? whodathunkit, it's a double wammy on the tax payer
Once again... I will say it with every bone in my body... If I was with that US military convoy that had a accident with blackwater ... and they tried to disarm my soldiers like they did with our soldiers in Iraq... I would have had my entire Platoon (37 soldiers) open up on blackwater with everything we had.... these people are out of control wether it's in Iraq or NOLA _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
I personally file this under the 50 year old who wears tin foil on his head and sits half naked in a basement analyzing static from his dads ham radio for secret government transmissions while his 80 year old mother downs percosets with lighter fluid category.
I have personal friends who work for Blackwater, I can tell you that it has NO thread of anti-Americanism. It is composed of ex-military veterans who are finally getting paid livable wages for their sacrifices and skills.
We have the National Guard to help with national emergencies .
We DON'T need soldiers of fortune or missionaries patroling our streets .
[Mod Edit]
No private militay should be funded by our government .
I went to college with a couple ex military Delta Force missionaris . They told some very interesting stories to us .
Also we need to consider how their fellow Americans sat back and let the nation they fought for and their friends died for be invaded and taken over without objection or resistance . Allow foreign flags to fly in their streets; schools to teach hate against their God, country and familes . Not something that would make one very ' patriotic '.
If any of our leaders were the least bit concerned about .drugs, terrorism or any other ' NATIONAL EMERGENCY ' THEY WOULD HAVE CLOSED THE BORDERS LONG AGO .
Once again... I will say it with every bone in my body... If I was with that US military convoy that had a accident with blackwater ... and they tried to disarm my soldiers like they did with our soldiers in Iraq... I would have had my entire Platoon (37 soldiers) open up on blackwater with everything we had.... these people are out of control wether it's in Iraq or NOLA
When did Blackwater try to disarm uniformed American soldiers?
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:31 pm Post subject:
Quote:
When did Blackwater try to disarm uniformed American soldiers?
A military hummv (Hummer hit a leed vehicle in a Blackwater convoy and while the military HUMMV operater and others tried to seperate the vehicles; blackwater operatives disarmed our soldiers and made them lay down on the ground while blackwater secured the area and seperated the vehicles....
That is a serious no no and jepordized our soldiers safety so blackwater could get a warm and fuzzy... since when did our soldiers become public enemy number 1 to blackwater _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
When did Blackwater try to disarm uniformed American soldiers?
A military hummv (Hummer hit a leed vehicle in a Blackwater convoy and while the military HUMMV operater and others tried to seperate the vehicles; blackwater operatives disarmed our soldiers and made them lay down on the ground while blackwater secured the area and seperated the vehicles....
That is a serious no no and jepordized our soldiers safety so blackwater could get a warm and fuzzy... since when did our soldiers become public enemy number 1 to blackwater
If that is true, then those Blackwater personnel were in the wrong. How do you know this happened? Do you have a source? And if this is true, is it just an isolated incident?
Since I have not received a source for these allegations against Blackwater, I cannot believe in the accuracy of the story. And by the way, if it was true, you could bet your last dollar the liberal media would be all over it.
As to Blackwater in New Orleans, more power to them if they were there to control the rioters.
Last edited by Jonathan on Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:54 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:32 am Post subject:
Blackwater drew guns and disarmed American Soldiers
Outrage doesn't even begin to describe that. A private mercenary army pulling guns on our real American soldiers? Eric Prince should be tried for treason. Disarming American trrops in a war zone is definitely aiding the enemy
Submitted: 8 days ago, made popular 7 days ago
Submitter: puunjab (news: submissions, diggs, comments)
Topic: News » World & Business » Political News
Source: msnbc.msn.com
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+221 diggs by ChristPissed on 10/12/2007
christain terrorist eric prince belongs in capitivity in gauntanamo
View 13 replies to this comment (most popular has 175 diggs)+378 diggs by yurbud on 10/12/2007
Even conservatives should be outraged at this behavior.
The chain of command should be the lowest E-1 in the regular military outranks these guys.
And if Blackwater is subject to the laws of no country, no Iraqi or American soldier should be punished if they treat them like enemy combatants.
View 10 replies to this comment (most popular has 66 diggs)+233 diggs by 309east on 10/12/2007
Well, Blackwater is like "Hmmm, the US government pays us 100x what they pay their soldiers, that clearly means that we are way more important then measly soldiers". This would have been a great opportunity for a little "friendly fire" incident.. unfortunately the soldiers wouldn't have stood a chance, because the government cant afford to supply them with decent equipment because all the money is going to blackwater.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+208 diggs by Verchiel77 on 10/12/2007
Swaggering, trigger happy, man-children.
A billion of our tax dollars at work.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 41 diggs)+132 diggs by sensoukami on 10/12/2007
This is what happens in the absence of accountability. Accountability MUST be made the guiding principal of how be base our societys and how we bahave as individuals. Be it unaccountable public teachers unions or unaccountable teenager thugs or unacountable Blackwater mercs or unacountable politicians. Start from there, and then build society.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)+154 diggs by maou on 10/12/2007
Support Our Troops! I keep hearing. Well look what kind of V******V my tax dollars are supporting. Sure as hell ain't the troops.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -119 diggs by foxhaze on 10/12/2007
Get off your self-righteous high horses, you bastards.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 30 diggs)+74 diggs by swrostmore on 10/12/2007
Even worse, there has been at least one incident where US soldiers were taking orders from Blackwater personnel in a firefight.
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 19 diggs)+91 diggs by quaxon on 10/12/2007
Why the V****V hasnt anyone classified blackwater as a terrorist organization? Also it really shows how much support the government really shows the troops when they are replacing them in every corner of the military with private contracters that get paid more and have better benefits and are also immune to prosecution for any crimes committed
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 20 diggs)+67 diggs by superfusion on 10/12/2007
Treason ... and a side order of treason.
Again, this company has addresses and assets in the United States. Cannot a state government step in and do what Bush is obviously unwilling to do.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)+70 diggs by codehkr77 on 10/12/2007
If I was a soldier and I saw someone who wasn't wearing a GI military uniform and holding a gun, I'll take them out.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)+29 diggs by quaxon on 10/12/2007
Anyone living in North Carolina care to pay their headquarters a little visit and give them a taste of their own medicine? NC is a gun loving state aint it?
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 14 diggs)+106 diggs by budgetguitar on 10/12/2007
I wish the press would start calling them what they are...Mercinaries. Not private military contractors. A guy laying sewer pipe in a neighborhood is a contractor. A overpaid adrenaline junky who thinks he's more important than the military who hires him is a MERCINARY, and an ass hat to boot!
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 12 diggs)+32 diggs by Pureeviljester on 10/12/2007
i woulda shot them.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has -14 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -24 diggs by joebrender on 10/12/2007
Who would you rather have guarding you, Bob, the Pharmacist from Des Moines, IA, who's also a reservist MP, or a green beret who left the army and is now working for an elite mercenary force.
I guess I can see why they get some support. Root of prblem = undersized Army.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 33 diggs)+8 diggs by claybird on 10/12/2007
Article on one page: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek ...+32 diggs by scottykempf on 10/12/2007
I wouldn't have blamed the soldiers if they did. What soldiers takes orders from someone claiming to be Blackwater? Didn't they have a seargent or command officer to tell them what to do?
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 10 diggs)+36 diggs by wtfpwned98 on 10/12/2007
What if our mercenaries turn on us?
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20070603_Wh ...
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 7 diggs)+48 diggs by wtfpwned98 on 10/12/2007
"'It cannot happen here' is always wrong," the philosopher Karl Popper wrote. "A dictatorship can happen anywhere."
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)+12 diggs by bullhead2007 on 10/12/2007
I say line them up in front of an execution squad.+49 diggs by saijm on 10/12/2007
There is an easy solution. There should have been a buttload of dead Blackwater mercs killed at the hands of U.S. soldiers. As far as I am concerned Blackwater is operating outside the rule of international and U.S. law. As a non-uniformed para-military group they should be held to the same standard the Bush administration holds other non-uniformed para-military groups. They should be considered to not have protection under the Geneva Conventions.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 8 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -12 diggs by BobOki on 10/12/2007
This story should not be listened to, BY THIS REPORTER, very closely. When they are quoting a movie and not life:
"One military contractor, who spoke anonymously for fear of retribution in his industry, recounted the story of a Blackwater operative who answered a Marine officer's order to put his pistol on safety when entering a base post office by saying, "This is my safety," and wiggling his trigger finger in the air."
This is a direct scene fromn the movie BlackHawk Down.
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 16 diggs)+59 diggs by originaldna on 10/12/2007
Sweet, the praetorian guards rise again, and so the destruction of American takes one more step closer, what better way to split a notion, Hired guns for politicians pulling guns on a nation’s last line of defense. You read about empires imploding, but I never thought to my wildest dreams this is how they start.
Digg me down it you will but you know it's true.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)+14 diggs by swrostmore on 10/12/2007
I wonder what made the mercenary in the photo think that Oakley snowboarding goggles can function as ballistic glasses.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 18 diggs)+37 diggs by lattethunder on 10/12/2007
There's a special circle in Hell waiting for people who kill for profit. They used to be called mercenaries. And this isn't about an undersized army: Iraq is the neoconservative experiment for a completely privatized nation. Controlled global chaos equals profits for corporations. War is great business.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 16 diggs)+17 diggs by SillyDigger on 10/12/2007
Why didn't those soldiers waste those blackwater thugs?
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 14 diggs)+17 diggs by TheHydrogens on 10/12/2007
Buried. Rawsto--- wait... you mean that it ISN'T just liberal blogs that can spot things that are going wrong? You mean that the trolls can't just come here and pass this off as lies from "rawsewage"? Interesting.... dugg.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+6 diggs by kernel16 on 10/12/2007
KOS Blackwater.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -9 diggs by solid12345 on 10/12/2007
You know you can't speak out of two sides of your ass.
If you claim outrage in the name of supporting the troops but hate these mercs sign up for the army. The is the only reason we are using mercs to make up for the lack of uniformed men.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 11 diggs)+16 diggs by SuperMoses on 10/12/2007
This is outrageous, but it's not as outrageous as them killing innocent iraqi civilians.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+26 diggs by wakananda on 10/12/2007
These are the new SS. It's history repeating.
US military ought to be taking these thugs out when they act up. Fight them over there, or you'll be fighting them over here, in your home town.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)+12 diggs by trilks on 10/12/2007
Seriously, V****V those guys.+12 diggs by Frei on 10/12/2007
Not only do the people in the military have to out up with insurgents and tons of other BS, now they have wanna-be cowboys getting in their way and crating more civil unrest.+17 diggs by RabidAngel on 10/12/2007
Can we "blackwaterboard" these V*********V? I resent their very existance in my country.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has -1 diggs)+13 diggs by Sharky35 on 10/12/2007
A M E R I C A - V****V YEAH!+15 diggs by sclifford on 10/12/2007
Given that none of us were there, we cannot know the circumstances. It seems that both Marines and Blackwater guys came out of that situation alive.
However, at first blush my reaction, had I been the Marine officer, would have been to order the Marines to open fire on the Blackwater operatives.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+7 diggs by snoots on 10/12/2007
Does anyone else kind of see this piece as a blame shift? I'm not denying that Blackwater is undoubtedly corrupt, and there seems to be a serious problem here, but isn't this just shifting attention from misdeeds of the U.S. Government to some private corporate entity?
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 6 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -16 diggs by originaldna on 10/12/2007
I hope the Iraqi freedom fighters exploit this, dress as blackwater employee and off an American solder, and vice verse. the plot thickens
View 5 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -8 diggs by rmxz on 10/12/2007
Seeing how many friendly fire incidents happen over there it's certainly understandable that they'd see this as making it safer for them and the state-department guys they're trying to protect. Seems all the arguments that people use to defend the shootings of Iraqi civilians can apply here: "But in this war zone anyone [especially well armed people] could potentially be a threat". Just because someone claims to be a child/friend/us-military doesn't mean it's safe to trust them until they can confirm those claims. And disarming is certainly less bad than shooting or rounding up and putting in a private jail.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+22 diggs by jsm2112 on 10/12/2007
"This is my safety"--
Wasn't that a line in Black Hawk Down? Apparently they aren't original either...
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+17 diggs by deleo on 10/12/2007
Why do I have a feeling that Dick Cheney will be getting a $500,000 speaking engagement fee for Blackwater's annual corporate retreat in February of 2009.[below viewing threshold, show comment] -18 diggs by XavierRising on 10/12/2007
You fools don't unterstand jackshit. The liberal media hates blackwater so they try and dig up old hear-say stories. You don't know who these guys are. I almost went and worked for one of these groups not for the money but because I already did my time in the military but I still believe in the cause. I was just tired of not getting paid jackshit for it. You pussies calling for them to be shot make me laugh. You are worthless panty-waste liberals not worth the mud on the bottom of my boot.
Now go ahead and digg me down you protectors of the 1st amendment only when you agree with what is being said. I hate you all so much I can't wait until you finally push us to far and call down the fury of all us right-wing "gun nuts"
View 12 replies to this comment (most popular has 11 diggs)+15 diggs by DesuKN on 10/12/2007
Oh dear, I guess you can't write this one off as "inaccurate because of Rawstory".
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has -1 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -12 diggs by montany on 10/12/2007
My father is a retired 26-year Air Force colonel. My brother is a US Marine Recon Special Forces sniper. I am a US Army contractor. And we all agree that the US Army is, with some exceptions, a lazy, fat, under-trained institution that should be used for supporting the real, highly-trained combatants. But instead, they are thrown to the lions as cannon fodder, not knowing how to properly conduct a firefight or do basic math. It's what the media doesn't tell you that's the deciding factor here. Blackwater has a reason to be arrogant, even though they shouldn't be allowed to act in such a brash manner. Did you know that many Marine combat squads will routinely confiscate the weapons of the Army soldiers assigned to them? They consider them more of a danger to themselves and their allies than the enemy. From what I've seen, I have to agree with the Marines. Blind patriotism has no value. See the facts.
View 6 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+12 diggs by Christbait on 10/12/2007
You can dub the U.S. Army as a bunch cowboys all you want, but these Blackwater chaps are taking the utter piss.+16 diggs by OutragedCitizen on 10/12/2007
Blackwater is a gun-for-hire merc. group that operates under a Halliburton subsidiary. Who used to be the CEO of the company and still has close ties with it? (Dick Cheney obviously). Multi-million dollar no bid contracts for Blackwater, the establishment of military bases and the continuing occupation of Iraq and eventually Iran. No prosecution for criminal acts of war; Iraq's own government demands that Blackwater leave it's country and not return, but guess what, Blackwater is going nowhere and will continue to work and murder with impunity as it has ties with the most powerful people in the world. And what it really comes down, and all that matters in this disgusting excuse of a democracy that we live in today, is the fact that if you know the right people (powerful elite) you can get away with murder and get paid top dollar to do so with no repercussions or any fear of being tried for your offenses. America the free my ass!
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+2 diggs by n8glenn on 10/12/2007
This is just the tip of the iceberg of evil that is taking place in Iraq every day. No one is accountable, fraud, murder, and wholesale theft of Iraqi resources (oil) are not only protected by the bush administation and his lackeys in the justice department, they are the entire reason we went to Iraq in the first place. The scale of the evil is truly frightening.+10 diggs by Gtitian on 10/12/2007
goodbye America. We hardly knew you.+4 diggs by Fallout911 on 10/12/2007
Kill the motherfuckers they are a cancer that's growing in this country.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+37 diggs by KidDynamo0 on 10/12/2007
What is happening to my country?
View 7 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)+5 diggs by delrin500 on 10/12/2007
Why even waste time with creating regulations and rules for these guys?? Just outlaw the usage of specialized "contractors" and create small units within the military to take care of these missions. This will shut down the Blackwaters of the world and clean them out by drafting all of their US trained personnel back into the military then they can continue to use their specialized skill set and we can control them under the current systems and procedures already under the military code of conduct. If they are so patriotic as they say they should have no problem going back into the service.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by Leomarth on 10/12/2007
I'll just remind - the vast majority of Blackwater soldiers are ex-US military.
View 4 replies to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)-2 diggs by mstoneburner on 10/12/2007
I'm curious why people are so willing to automatically believe the assertions made in a "news story" that doesn't even name the sources involved. Can someone help me understand why so many people are so willing to simply abandon any sort of attempt at critical thinking when it comes to Blackwater? Who is this unnamed colonel they quote? We have no way of knowing if he actually exists or if the "reporter" who wrote this "article" is simply making up quotes. So, seriously, why the rush to judgment?
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 5 diggs)+7 diggs by saijm on 10/12/2007
For all the people trying to justify the existence of Blackwater I believe you need to pick up a history book and look what happens to countries that employ and allow mercenary armies to exist in their country. Blackwater has no loyalty to anyone, and is not sworn to uphold the Constitution.
Let me help you out. Mercenary armies inevitably turn on the countries that employ them.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 0 diggs)+8 diggs by spraguep on 10/12/2007
They need to pass a law stating that mercs can't make more money than the lowest paid soldier.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 3 diggs)-1 diggs by lawldiggg on 10/12/2007
The intelligent and wise man's singularly most important skill is the ability to critically question information that is presented to him. This becomes truly evident when said man can critically question information that is in line with his views.
The article sites its source of the allegation from an army Colonel assigned to investigate a car crash in 2006. It would be short work for the army to reference this incident and check the footnotes for the name of the investigating officer. Now, I would be the first to admit that the army is not know for its rocket scientists (being an Iraq veteran myself), but I can hardly believe that a man can ascend to the rank of Colonel without thinking about simple facts such as this.
I do not claim to be the all knowing source when it comes to the army or Blackwater. What I do bring to the table is first hand experience working with these contractors. In my year in Iraq we worked closely with multiple private security contractors, and not once have they displayed the degree of disregard for authority mentioned here. It is true that they march to the beat of their own drums, and that is to be expected to a degree with non military forces.
The article mentions that a 'soldier who guards a gate' reports that Blackwater never clears their weapons when required to upon entering a base. This strikes me as odd, as that soldier is most likely in the age range of 18 – 21 and his entire existence is based on guarding the gate. If anyone here has spent any time over in the sandbox, I suspect that they know that the gate guards, for however nice and professional soldiers they are, are not exactly 'in the know' for all occurrences in all of Iraq. It would even be inductively forceful to argue that they are susceptible to turning rumor mill into fact. The base that we worked from never had any issues with this, and there are many bases around the country that operate on 'red' status inside the wire.
The purpose of this review is not to blindly defend the Blackwater security company. Actions will speak louder than words over the next few weeks as the congressional hearings unfold. Rather, I want to challenge the group mentality that most seem to have. Look at articles critically and come to decisions for yourself. Check the facts, and question the sources.
Have a good day.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+3 diggs by jellygraph on 10/12/2007
everyone who works for blackwater or any other mercenary business need to all be jailed... its outright criminal
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+2 diggs by bethehammer on 10/12/2007
Great, now they want to put the FBI into Iraq in 'large scale numbers' to ensure that Blackwater isn't doing anything bad. OMFG the FBI will be 100 times worse than Blackwater, just think of Waco or Ruby Ridge and think of what V****V these feds can pull. All they have to do is either fire Blackwater guys or execute them - the latter will really make the point
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)+7 diggs by kranberry on 10/12/2007
My worry is what happens after Iraq. These people will be back home and I'm guessing more than a few will retain their weaponry. In that case they will easily have more firepower than ANY local police and MOST government forces. Who will control them then? Or stop them from acting on their own?
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)[below viewing threshold, show comment] -6 diggs by lawldiggg on 10/12/2007
The intelligent and wise man's singularly most important skill is the ability to critically question information that is presented to him. This becomes truly evident when said man can critically question information that is in line with his views.
The article sites its source of the allegation from an army Colonel assigned to investigate a car crash in 2006. It would be short work for the army to reference this incident and check the footnotes for the name of the investigating officer. Now, I would be the first to admit that the army is not know for its rocket scientists (being an Iraq veteran myself), but I can hardly believe that a man can ascend to the rank of Colonel without thinking about simple facts such as this.
I do not claim to be the all knowing source when it comes to the army or Blackwater. What I do bring to the table is first hand experience working with these contractors. In my year in Iraq we worked closely with multiple private security contractors, and not once have they displayed the degree of disregard for authority mentioned here. It is true that they march to the beat of their own drums, and that is to be expected to a degree with non military forces.
The article mentions that a 'soldier who guards a gate' reports that Blackwater never clears their weapons when required to upon entering a base. This strikes me as odd, as that soldier is most likely in the age range of 18 – 21 and his entire existence is based on guarding the gate. If anyone here has spent any time over in the sandbox, I suspect that they know that the gate guards, for however nice and professional soldiers they are, are not exactly 'in the know' for all occurrences in all of Iraq. It would even be inductively forceful to argue that they are susceptible to turning rumor mill into fact. The base that we worked from never had any issues with this, and there are many bases around the country that operate on 'red' status inside the wire.
The purpose of this review is not to blindly defend the Blackwater security company. Actions will speak louder than words over the next few weeks as the congressional hearings unfold. Rather, I want to challenge the group mentality that most seem to have. Look at articles critically and come to decisions for yourself. Check the facts, and question the sources.
Have a good day.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 2 diggs)-1 diggs by pigfister on 10/12/2007
and so starts the american gov backing off from blackwater so the figure isn't pointed at the ppl hiring mercenaries in the first place.
buried as inaccurate propaganda
Reply to this comment+3 diggs by JosephDoe on 10/12/2007
I know this will sound callous and insensitive from a global humanitarian perspective, but I’m really less concerned about the use of private contractors “in theater” than in the use of them domestically… In particular, the insertion of Blackwater and other “militarized” private contractor teams into the Katrina “disaster” areas (New Orleans) with no publicly disclosed command intent or rules of engagement for the purpose of “guarding against looters and fending off attacks against civilian law enforcement and rescue personnel with no provisions for protecting or assisting the local citizenry. I find it quite unsettling that security personnel trained in close quarter combat tactics (CQB), fielding both individual and crew served weapons are contracted to fulfill mission specific “requirements” in a disaster area while the local lawful citizenry are actively being disarmed. This in turn leaves them no way of defending their lives or property as the local government and police make it clear via press conferences that the government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection to any particular individual citizen but only to serve the “public at large” – read keep the peace...
It’s probably high time that liberals and liberal leaning moderates take a long hard look at gun control legislation and think about what’s at stake before lobbying for legislators that WILL happily take away the tools to defend your self against those private contract firms that for a price, will serve as the instruments of government abuse of power. There is no law that’s ever been written upon a populace that criminals and psychopaths will abide by. Think about it with an open mind and take the time to get some practical firearms training and try to understand the mechanics, tactics and mindset of deploying a firearm in the defensive mode. Learn what a Type I, II or III failure is and learn how to perform immediate action to clear the malfunction. While is may be of no use to you in the interim, it may however change your views about guns and gun control and maybe preserve your right to say, “Hey, I don’t like it!”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic ...
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Blackwater_mercenaries ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/08/national/nationa ...
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?story ...
Reply to this comment+1 digg by coyoteblue on 10/12/2007
"I wake up sometimes way in the night and I know as certain as death that there ain't nothin' short of the second comin' of Christ that can slow this train."
No Country For Old Men, page 159
Reply to this comment+2 diggs by JoeVet on 10/12/2007
When you hire mercenaries loyal to money instead of soldiers loyal to our country, this type of behavior is expected. For that matter when you elect public officials because they are more loyal to money than the people, expect more wars to steal the resources of other countries.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+3 diggs by devilsh on 10/12/2007
Note: Blackwater is not entirely comprised of former elite US military personnel. They are a company that hires labor as cheaply as possible like all others and includes mercenarys from all over the globe.
http://www.alternet.org/story/1819
Reply to this comment+1 digg by glasnostic on 10/12/2007
When are where are these guys stepping off planes after their tours? I for one think a line of Americans spitting on them would be appropriate. Maybe we can get it right this time and spit on the V******V that deserve it.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+3 diggs by akula696969 on 10/12/2007
Eric Prince should be hanging from a rope on top of Capitol Hill. This man is a threat to our civil liberties and Constitutional freedoms.
Reply to this comment[below viewing threshold, show comment] -5 diggs by CheesecakeHater on 10/12/2007
I think most of the people on this board are the cancer that is killing this country. Do you realize that you're ripping on these Blackwater soldiers, who would die selflessly so that you can sit at home and have your luxuries. These guys are the best of the best, so they have to be arrogant. Being soft will only get them killed. So what if they make $200K. We spend $50K+ on a one use missile, why would you not spend 200K on an elite soldier? These guys go into the situations that nobody else will, and leave their families for extended periods of time. They deserve every penny of what they make.
View 3 replies to this comment (most popular has 4 diggs)+0 diggs by bumbletowne on 10/12/2007
Thank god somebody's doing it.
Reply to this comment-1 diggs by Spoomeister on 10/12/2007
Insert "Cobra Commander" joke here.
Reply to this comment+2 diggs by Nateon on 10/12/2007
So why aren't we shooting these V*********V? These mercenaries should respect our military. If a US soldier tells a Blackwater douche to disarm himself, he better do it or he'll be endangering our troops which is reason enough for these V******V to get a bullet in the head. If they're going to be aggressive with our soldiers we should be aggressive with them. It pisses me off that our soldiers have to take V****V from these guys. It also pisses me off that our own government can't trust U.S soldiers to bodyguard FBI agents.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 0 diggs)+3 diggs by ronjohn on 10/12/2007
I need confirmed report not some random COL.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+0 diggs by prleet on 10/12/2007
Thank God, if one of those bastards came through my post and did not comply...guess how many orders i will follow...My 11 General orders and then gonna let everyone have a burst from the m16. Trigger finger or no finger...General orders stands! Army and Airforce, I dont' believe have such orders. Link below..
Reply to this comment+2 diggs by Jerim on 10/12/2007
So now our Army just gives up to any group of people with guns? If I were to draw a gun on a soldier in a combat area, I am sure I would be dead in seconds. So why is the Army laying down for these guys? Also, in the article it talks about a bill recently passed that would require the FBI to increase its presence in Iraq to investigate claims such as this. Some fear it would spread the FBI too thin, and take away from anti-terrorism efforts in the US. But I thought Iraq is where terrorism starts, so wouldn't it make sense to for the FBI to be there? I mean if you are on the anti-terrorism team, what better place to be stationed than the Middle East?
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by bobbilljoe on 10/12/2007
Scum bags boot them from the country. Darn mercenaries.
Reply to this comment-3 diggs by mombassa on 10/12/2007
I hated Blackwater with a passion until I read the headline "Blackwater drew guns and disarmed American Soldiers"
Shouldn't Blackwater operatives be considered heroes for doing this?
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+4 diggs by skyshark88 on 10/12/2007
Holly V****V, enough US hired mercenaries even confronting and engaging US soldiers..... they were in New Orleans, Los Angeles and New York. More mercenaries in Iraq than US troops.. Wake up they are being prepped to conduct operation on a large scale in the USA against US citizens.....
Reply to this comment+4 diggs by rimmel on 10/12/2007
Welp, I can tell you that if I was one of those soldiers I would have told those guys to go V****V themselves and to put THEIR V*******V weapons down... Who do these pricks think they are?
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+2 diggs by minorthreat on 10/12/2007
"It's a few bad eggs that seem to be spoiling the bunch."
Shouldn't that be a few bad apples..... the idiots are taking over
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+2 diggs by marcomc2 on 10/12/2007
Oh, yeah, Erick Prince should be tried for treason, and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney should be get V*******V IMPEACHED.
Why do we always beat around the bush? Wow, didnt mean for that to happen. But seriously, beat bush you silly politicians.
They all form like Voltron and essentially he is the head, it all comes down to him, of course he knows about Blackwater, they help him and his friends out, come on!!!!
Reply to this comment+4 diggs by Racerx52 on 10/12/2007
Too bad the soldiers didn't shoot them.
Reply to this comment+4 diggs by HubbertWins on 10/12/2007
They should try that V****V on a car full of Marines and see what happens. Goddamn money grubbing mercenaries.
Reply to this comment+3 diggs by bauklo on 10/12/2007
this is scary, scary, scary.
being a german this reminds me how hitler came to power:
one of the major instruments for grabbing power were the SA, a paramilitary group of thugs who stood outside the law and were used to intimidate political opposition, normal people but also the police.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by Ignitedude on 10/12/2007
Sound like a bunch of thugs to me.
Reply to this comment+1 digg by sporg on 10/12/2007
Blackwater is not a part of the military and is barely accountable to the government. They operate like the "Royal Guard" and protect the various kings of this country from the people. Yes "the people" includes the regular military who may not operate in the best interest of these power crazed psychotics.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by Scottievm on 10/12/2007
The disturbing thing is, Blackwater mercs are highly-trained, ex-Spec-ops killing machines. Once you get to that level in the U.S. Military, the Seals, Delta Force etc., you're taught to rely less on chain-of-command and operate autonomously. That's V*******V scary to me. Sure when they're within the bounds of our military, on approved missions, their ruthless tactics don't bother me so much. But then when you put conscienceless assasins on the streets of a war-torn nation with no accountability whatsoever, you're just asking for trouble.
Reply to this comment+1 digg by KingBunny on 10/12/2007
Again with the cheesy-James-Bond-movie plot revolving around a group of mercenaries called "BlackWater" who kill indiscriminately.
I can just see the "This is my safety" quote used in a trailer. Throw in a secret underground base and you've got a movie!
Reply to this comment+1 digg by kneelB4zod on 10/12/2007
what a bunch of cunts!
Reply to this comment+0 diggs by krizzle on 10/12/2007
What a V******V story. First of all it may not be true. Second, it doesn't explain the situation. Blackwater was probably escorting a congressman when the other car crashed into them. Of course they will jump out with guns drawn, its what the state department pays them for. You don't even know if the Us soldiers were in an easily identifiable vehicle or in uniform or anything. And as for them being above the law, thats not their fault. Thats the law drafters fault. You are all a bunch of sheep. PS the war in iraq sucks.
View 2 replies to this comment (most popular has 1 digg)+1 digg by DUFFMANSAYZ on 10/12/2007
Look..... You can b*tch and complain about PMC (Private Military Companies) or any other security companies... But if you don't want to be CONSCRIPTED into the military force, then you have to face the facts that Privatized armies are here to stay. Bottom line... There are not enough man-power to guard Bush's little sandbox. It's easy to type on a keyboard but I don't see you enlisting to replace that well-paid contractor who's doing DoD's work.
Reply to this comment+1 digg by 2trkpony on 10/12/2007
Americans cannot teach {aka: force} "freedom & democracy" to the rest of the world until they restore their own. This is why America is doomed to fail. Here we've got "left vs right" "liberal media vs republican" "repub vs democrat" "i served & you didn't" "my dick is bigger than yours" "my side is right yours isn't" /etc. As you're all being sold down a river of lies, deceit & massive manipulations for a fraudulent sham of a no-exit, trillion dollar+ government war. 'Democrats vs. Republicans' "Liberal vs. Conservative" are false paradigms forced upon us to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while they take over to rule the serfs. Makes no difference who the puppet is, the hand is the same.. They've got you right where they want you: divided & conquered. Misdirected from the real issues. People will never wake up to the lies & fraud perpetuated by your every own government, your true enemy if there ever was. How many more billion dollars of public taxpayer money can we waste today? How many more human lives slaughtered to further our political agenda. While we hide safely in the shadows in our ivory towers, unscathed. What's next? One World Government. North American Union. A New World Order. Piece of cake!! USA RIP
Reply to this comment+0 diggs by Huangism on 10/12/2007
"Eric Prince should be tried for treason"
it's trialed you idiot
Reply to this comment+1 digg by tybris on 10/12/2007
They have no law.... doesn't that mean they have no rights either?
Reply to this comment+0 diggs by pentol on 10/12/2007
This is bad news. But you can't stereotype that all Blackwater people are like that. Just like some soldiers do things at Abu Ghraib or other scandals out there, that doesn't mean all 150,000+ soldiers, marines, airmen, and sailors are all like that. Just like those people who do suicide in the name of religion X. We can't see all X people are willing to suicide.
Reply to this comment+0 diggs by FutueTeIpsum on 10/12/2007
Blackwater security guards are nothing but military washouts and military/commando wannabes...
Nothing more...
The idiots dont even wear full protective gear...
Reply to this comment+1 digg by dinatron72 on 10/12/2007
Blackwater terrorists
Reply to this comment-1 diggs by bl00dy on 10/12/2007
Blackwater kicks ass!
Reply to this comment+1 digg by coldkodiak on 10/12/2007
unacceptable behavior.
These private armies if they are going to work in conjunction with the regular army need to have military oversight. They should not function at their own whim.
Reply to this comment-1 diggs by MattInChicago on 10/12/2007
RTFA!!!! I hate these guys but there is no proof provided, the company says it didn't happen, nor was this brought up at the hearings. I'm all for getting these guys under control but the headline and article are totally misleading.
View 1 reply to this comment (most popular has 0 diggs)+1 digg by valoss on 10/12/2007
Americans come from cowboy and mob cultures both with "shoot first ask questions later" and "I'm the law 'round here" attitudes. Blackwater is merely a global extension of our failed domestic policies.
Reply to this comment _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:10 am Post subject:
you find it or go find another post to V*****V about ... I am military, 21.5 years and a majority of what I know is from what I have seen and what I have been told by people on site..... _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
Joined: May 28, 2007 Posts: 27447 Location: South West Florida (Behind friendly lines but still in Occupied Territory)
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:07 am Post subject:
Liberal or not I dont care... if blackwater pulls weapons on a US soldier (my battle buddies) I'll call'em out.
It only involved 2 US soldiers and from what I understand it was brief. But I would never let that occur.
I have seen blackwaters arrogance first hand and our young soldiers are vulnerable in that environment
As far as Katrina and blackwater ... that was a no no... weapons were confiscated and that goes against the 2nd amendment the right to bear arms....
Katrina proved the government could not protect it's citizens, so the government appointed agency can come in and disarm people that are protecting thier home and property? So that process tells me that if we have a dirty bomb in this country ... the government is going to come take my arms that I need to protect myself and family from looters ...
I dont think so ... I feel for the man that tries to do that _________________ I'm a Conservative ~ "BOO" and According to Obama and Napolitano I am (AKA) the "Boogieman"
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