Thread: Illegal immigration polarizes Christians

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Illegal immigration polarizes Christians
Mary Lou Pickel - Staff
Wednesday, August 10, 2005

The Rev. Julian Herrera of Norcross says Jesus would not harshly judge immigrants who cross the U.S.-Mexican border looking for work.

"The way people can glorify God is to lend these people a hand instead of persecuting them," Herrera said.

The minister's views make many angry.

Gregory Howard, chairman of the Gwinnett County Republican Party, listened to Herrera recently at a forum on immigration held at the Christ Fellowship of Atlanta church in Norcross.

"What he's saying is we're not children of God and we're not Christians if we don't allow this," Howard said. "I'm deeply offended by this."

"Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's," Howard said. "You follow the rules."

Two groups with conservative values --- evangelical Christians and Republicans --- find themselves on opposite sides of the thorny immigration issue. As Atlanta's Hispanic evangelical population continues to grow, conservative Republicans are grappling with how to relate to this group. Evangelical Hispanics tend to share conservatives' views on social issues such as gay marriage and abortion, but disagree strongly on illegal immigration.

Herrera says he was offended earlier this year at a meeting of the Christian Coalition of Georgia.

"They said they needed to ship us back to our countries like a UPS package," he said. "They blamed us for traffic congestion and overloaded hospital emergency rooms."

Herrera, a native of Mexico, became a Christian in Atlanta 15 years ago. He later returned to Mexico and studied at an Assembly of God seminary. He became a pastor and returned to the United States in 1999 at the invitation of a church in Marietta.

Earlier this year, Herrera went to Washington with other Hispanic pastors organized by a group called CONLAMIC --- the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders --- to lobby for immigration reform and driver's licenses for those without immigration documents.

"We can't stay with our hands tied," he said. "We need to raise our voices."

He plans to return to Washington with the same group next month.

As part of his effort to lobby for immigration reform, Herrera agreed to call together his congregation for a forum moderated by Anthony-Scott Hobbs, host of radio show "Citizen Georgia" on WGKA-AM (920). Herrera also broadcast the forum on his radio station Radio Vida, WWWE-AM 1100.

Toward the end of the forum, which consisted mostly of each side taking turns telling the other side it was wrong, people started alluding to the Bible to back up their views.

Kathy Hildebrand of Snellville compared immigration to passage into heaven. In both cases there's a proper way, she told the crowd of at least 500, most of whom were immigrants from Mexico and Central America.

Wanting to get into heaven and actually getting into heaven are two very different things, she said.

In turn, Manuel Mendoza, a Baptist pastor from El Salvador, said the laws of God are greater than the laws of man. Mercy is one of the most important acts a Christian can show, he said.

Sadie Fields, executive director of the Christian Coalition of Georgia, said her group held a panel on immigration reform in January, but she says people did not say the things Herrera alleges.

"We are a welcoming country," Fields said. "We are one of the most generous countries in the world. We do expect people to come here legally and to assimilate into our culture," she said.

Illegal immigrants break the law in coming here, she said, and they put a burden on hospitals, schools and other public services.

Open borders also put the United States in danger of terrorist infiltration, Fields said.

The appropriate Christian response to illegal immigration is an interesting question, said Tina Pippin, professor of religious studies at Agnes Scott College.

"Who can know what Jesus would do," she said.

"Jesus broke all sorts of social boundaries. He talked to prostitutes and tax collectors . . . and he went into the homes of the wealthy."

Pippin believes it would be hard to argue that Jesus would call for isolationism because of the overwhelming inclusiveness of his message.

The Rev. Charles Strong, pastor of Christ Fellowship of Atlanta, says he hasn't considered what Jesus would do about illegal immigration.

"It's obviously something that's becoming more and more an issue," Strong said.

Herrera rents space at Strong's church for his Spanish-speaking congregation.

David Jenkins, who teaches at the Candler School of Theology at Emory University, has worked with refugees and says helping the stranger is central to Jesus' message.

"Jesus was often in close company with strangers --- people who rabbis and Jewish men were not allowed to associate with because they were not keeping the law," Jenkins said.

"They were from other traditions --- sometimes enemies, like the Romans. Jesus was constantly breaking a lot of the cultural norms of his tradition," Jenkins said.

Dennis McCann, professor of Bible and Religion at Agnes Scott College, said he'd be surprised if Jesus had much sense of borders and jurisdictions other than the Roman colonial system.

In all things concerning the Romans, he was indifferent rather than hostile, McCann wrote in an e-mail.

"He seems to have emphatically rejected zealotry or the idea of armed struggle against imperial occupation. Thus, I would be surprised to find Jesus endorsing any kind of punitive policy against illegal immigrants. Probably, if asked, he would favor amnesty for those already here, and generally would favor a borderless world, where people could come and go freely without interference from the state," McCann wrote. "That's my guess."

"The way people can glorify God is to lend these people a hand instead of persecuting them," Herrera said.

Then relocate yourself to Mexico, lend them YOUR hand to these people, and glorify God yourself THERE.

"What he's saying is we're not children of God and we're not Christians if we don't allow this," Howard said. "I'm deeply offended by this."

I too am deeply offended to see a Minister using religion to Christian teachngs to overpopulate our nation to the point where everyone will be poor, chained, caged, and trapped in employed slavery with our elders digging through garbage dumps for food to survive.

I am deeply offended to see a Minister using God to promote a policy that will iend the greatest nation on earth, the USA, without which there will be no protector of freedom or freedom of religion. Folks, Americans are the ones to stand up for freedom. Without our nation strong and our people at peace, secure in themselves, and economically empowered as individuals and as a nation to Stand Up to Globalists....there is no nation that can stand up to Globalists and survive. We are the only ones capable of preventing the devastation of Global Tyranny.

God is watching our little United States and I believe he has Angels everywhere who will help us help ourselves to defeat the Sins and Ravages of Illegal Immigration and preserve freedom in the World.

False Prophets are everywhere....See Them For What They Are!!

Christians Unite to Defeat the Sins of Illegal Immigration and Save the United States.

There is no debate here. If you are a Christian and an American Citizen, there is only ONE CHOICE...Stop This Nonsense Now. Secure our borders yesterday, whatever it takes; Deport illegal aliens to their country of origin; Prosecute Lawbreakers to the Full Extent of the Law; Remove Traitors from the United States Government immediately.

There is no other choice....for ANY AMERICAN including American Christians.

AND, tell the Phonies asking you to give your livelihood to another; the future of your children to another; your nation to another to Glorify God and enrich their Phoney Purse...to leave the United States because Hypocrites are no longer welcome here.

Polarized? I dont see a conflict here. Americans are the most giving and generous nation in the world. Where is everybody else when it comes to helping others in need? I am as religious as any human can be, but that doesnt make me irresponsible to myself and my fellow Americans. If I hear one more 'what would heyhoose do?", I'll scream. Go preach to the those responsible for the harm they are causing their own people. Stop making this so divisional for all the wrong reasons. It's low down and sinful.

Judy, you are so right. Tell him to go back to Mexico and "LEND A HAND" to his people.

In the meantime, WE will "LEND A HAND" to our people.

By the way. These ministers, priests, preachers, who condone and promote illegal border crossing must not have thoroughly read the Bible yet. Because if they had they will see where God says that people should respect and obey the laws of a country.

I will try to find the passage and will post it EACH time I read these things. This is pure hypocricy. False prophets. We were clearly warned of such people.

You've heard of home school. Get ready for Home Church until these people stop trying to take advantage of the good people of The United States of America.

Right on LegalUSCitizen...and Home Church may be the answer. This is just unbelievable. Our church has a very extensive Foreign Missions Program where our missionaries travel to the country to help the people there. THEY would never promote relocating these people into the United States, leaving behind families and a nation that needs them there.

Illegal immigration is wrong from every direction. There is no right angle to it. None. Zero. Zip.

Someone mentioned "obeying the law of the land."

Here is what I found -

http://en.bibleinfo.com/topics/topic.html?id=200

God advises us to obey the laws of the land. It's in the Bible, Romans 13:1-2, TLB. "Obey the government, for God is the one who has put it there. There is no government anywhere that God has not placed in power. So those who refuse to obey the laws of the land are refusing to obey God, and punishment will follow."

Churches can and should feed the hungry, clothe the naked and share the gospel, but they are NOT to aide and abet law breakers, that is where the line is crossed. Perhaps if people studied the bible, they would understand this.

Earlier this year, Herrera went to Washington with other Hispanic pastors organized by a group called CONLAMIC --- the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders --- to lobby for immigration reform and driver's licenses for those without immigration documents.

"We can't stay with our hands tied," he said. "We need to raise our voices."

He plans to return to Washington with the same group next month.

when will Congress learn --- non-citizens DO NOT have the right "to petition the government for a redress of grievances" because it's' NOT "their" government

"Jesus was often in close company with strangers --- people who rabbis and Jewish men were not allowed to associate with because they were not keeping the law," Jenkins said

. . . Probably, if asked, he would favor amnesty for those already here, and generally would favor a borderless world, where people could come and go freely without interference from the state," McCann wrote. "That's my guess."

. . . these "strangers" were citizens

Pippin believes it would be hard to argue that Jesus would call for isolationism because of the overwhelming inclusiveness of his message.

Jesus message had only to do with believing in him and the Holy Father. He taught nothing about business; or livelihood; or jobs; or economics. Jesus was not about business. Jesus was not about Globalism for Money. Jesus was not about ending nations or governments. Jesus was apolitical and non-economic. He would not steal into a country to run drugs, smuggle humans, to steal other's employment, to crowd their hospitals, to have children surrounded with "foreign tongues". In fact Jesus Father created a World where people were completely divided and isolated and separate by God's Borders called oceans, mountains, rivers, deserts. In fact Jesus Father created a World with different people isolated together. Only MAN not GOD has crossed those boundaries with WARS and IMPERIALISM and AGGRESSION and VIOLENCE. God created man millions of years ago. Only in the name of business and trade which have nothing whatsoever to do with God or Jesus...have these borders been erased and people mixed.

The hypocrisy coming from these so-called theologians is like a meeting with David Rockefeller and George Soros, neither one of whom believe in God would be my guess. George Soros is a self-confessed Aethiest.

Illegal immigration is about BUSINESS, and to claim it has anything to do with Jesus or God is complete HERESY.

David Jenkins, who teaches at the Candler School of Theology at Emory University, has worked with refugees and says helping the stranger is central to Jesus' message.

Helping the stranger and being a Good Samaritan means YOU help the stranger, you be the Good Samaritan, give them YOUR money, give them YOUR life, give them YOUR children's future....don't sit there at your desk drawing a big salary telling poor Americans to give them theirs in the name of Jesus. Put your Open Border's Lobby Globalist SCRIPT away. We know a planted article when we see one. HOW LOW will these people stoop for Money. It is EVIL ON A HAY RIDE!!

Dennis McCann, professor of Bible and Religion at Agnes Scott College, said he'd be surprised if Jesus had much sense of borders and jurisdictions other than the Roman colonial system.

Factually, the "range" of Jesus travels were quite narrow. Bethlehem, Galileo, Jerusalem.

"He seems to have emphatically rejected zealotry or the idea of armed struggle against imperial occupation. Thus, I would be surprised to find Jesus endorsing any kind of punitive policy against illegal immigrants. Probably, if asked, he would favor amnesty for those already here, and generally would favor a borderless world, where people could come and go freely without interference from the state," McCann wrote. "That's my guess."

Jesus would have endorsed amnesty for serial killers. Remember? Believe in me and I shall give you eternal life. Believe in me, repent, and all sin is forgiven. Jesus was about the soul of man....not the pocket-book, not politics, not government. Jesus was about salvation not your occupation on earth or what country you find one in.

These men are not Christians and have no concept of Jesus. How sad...they are teaching our future Ministers....more Wolves in Sheep's Clothing. More Foxes Guarding the Hen House. How much we learn from this forum and how sad it is to see and have to face the reality that corruption has taken over every single aspect of our society but one.

That one is the heart and soul of the American People and the God Given Instinct to Survive. And survive we will. On our own, for WE are truly alone but for our love of each other and our country.

The Rev. Julian Herrera of Norcross appears to be an illegal immigrant. I sent a Letter to the Editor advising him and his congregation that being a Christian made him no less a criminal. An illegal alien will still have to explain that on Judgment day to God.

A Man of the Cloth is someone children are supposed to look up to. And children learn what they live. I hope children are no where near him learning that it is okay to bend the laws of our land to suit your self.

The law is the law and this man is a Christian Criminal. He should do one of three things: Become a legal citizen, go home or be deported. These are the things I said in my Letter to the Editor. I also told him that if he believed in his Bible then he believed in the Ten Commandments and I believed he was breaking one or two commandments -- and our Nation's laws. We'll see if they print it -- and if he does anything else about it.