Thread: Gutierrez: Politics led to Postville raid, Democrat alleges

Politics led to Postville raid, Democrat alleges

By TONY LEYS
tleys@dmreg.com

Postville, Ia. - The Bush administration tried to score political points by ordering unusually harsh penalties for hundreds of undocumented workers swept up in an immigration raid here, an Illinois congressman said Saturday.

"I think they're kowtowing to the most xenophobic, anti-immigrant heart and base of the Republican Party because there's an election coming up," Rep. Luis Gutierrez said.

The Chicago Democrat made the allegation in an interview after an emotional meeting with about 100 people at St. Bridget's Catholic Church.

He said top White House officials actually favor reforming immigration laws to make it easier for workers to come here, but they ordered the May raid so it would look like they were cracking down. A federal Department of Homeland Security spokesman later called Gutierrez's allegations "preposterous."

Gutierrez and two other members of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus spent three hours listening to former Agriprocessors workers tell about mistreatment by the meatpacking-plant's managers and by federal officials who arrested 389 people at the facility.

Several teenagers said that they took production-line jobs at Agriprocessors when they were 14 or 15, and that they often worked grueling shifts lasting 12 hours or more. Other people said that in order to gain better jobs or hours, workers had to pay bribes, buy overpriced cars or give sexual favors to managers.

The raid, the biggest in U.S. history, led to five-month jail sentences, then deportation, for most of those arrested.

Many of the people at Saturday's meeting were mothers who were arrested, then let go with electronic tracking bracelets on their ankles.

"They say it's humanitarian, but it's not, really," one of the women, Maria Laura Gomez-Solove, said. The women aren't allowed to work, so they have to rely on the church to help them pay for food and rent.

Reached for comment after the meeting, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security denied politics motivated the raid or prosecutions. Russ Knocke, whose agency oversees immigration enforcement, said the allegation is "completely unfounded." He said the White House does not direct where raids happen or how those arrested are prosecuted. He said those decisions are made by immigration officers and prosecutors, based on the circumstances.

Gutierrez said federal authorities filed unfairly tough criminal charges against the workers. He said most of the workers were charged with aggravated criminal identity theft, which means they allegedly stole someone's Social Security number with the intent to gain something, such as a credit card.

"Well we haven't heard testimony here that anybody did anything with Social Security cards other than going to work," he said.

Gomez-Solove said most of the workers were poor, uneducated Guatemalans who didn't know what a Social Security card was.

Union organizer Jerry Messer said the Agriprocessors plant has the worst working conditions he has ever seen. Messer's union, the United Food and Commercial Workers, has been trying to organize the plant. He called for criminal charges against members of the Rubashkin family, who own the company.

When asked for a response, Menachem Lubinsky, a consultant representing Agriprocessors, said Messer should not be calling for such charges. "It's not his call. In this country, those things are based on evidence."
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/p ... 70337/1001

Gutierrez said federal authorities filed unfairly tough criminal charges against the workers. He said most of the workers were charged with aggravated criminal identity theft, which means they allegedly stole someone's Social Security number with the intent to gain something, such as a credit card.

"Well we haven't heard testimony here that anybody did anything with Social Security cards other than going to work," he said.


It is hard for me to admit Guitierrez is from Illinois. I saw him at this hearing on Dobbs yesterday. He seemed very angry. At one time he wasn't going to run again, retire...

Other than going to work???? You want to hear from people who get tax notices from someone 'just going to work?' Have their social security messed up? Of course they gained something.

Check out this conversation on Lou Dobbs between two reps. So it's 'identity fabrication' and not 'identity theft' eh?? This is worth skimming to read her mindset. Heaven help us...she's the chair.


Well, joining me are two members of that House judiciary subcommittee and immigration and citizenship. Two different points of view on the issue of workplace enforcement.

Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California is the chair of the subcommittee, and Congresswoman Lofgren believes that the raids are dehumanizing, as she puts it. And Congressman Steve King of Iowa is the ranking Republican, and he says illegal alien the workers broke the law, should be prosecuted.

Now they both join me from Capitol Hill, and thank you for being with us for the debate and the discussion.

Congresswoman Lofgren, I know that you object to the way that these workers were -- these illegal workers were arrested. But do you object to the fact that they were arrested?

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, the focus of the hearing -- I think you've misunderstood the focus. It really has to do with the criminal justice process. It's been a recent change that individuals who, undoubtedly, were here without their proper papers, they were illegal aliens, should be charged criminally for the different crime of identity theft.

And the question is, where those individuals, were those charges proper? Were they based in fact? Did the individual defendants in a criminal trial receive due process of law?

I note that we asked for the U.S. attorney in Iowa to come and be a witness. The Department of Justice sent a nice lawyer who was not there, who actually had not been at the trial.

And her belief, I'm sure, honestly delivered, was severely undercut by the court translator, who has 27 years of experience, who actually was there. So his testimony was that these individuals who were charged with a crime and every person in America charged with a crime is entitled to due process of law under our constitution.

That these individuals had -- did not understand the nature of the crime they were being charged with, they didn't understand what the plea meant, and I talked to Judge (INAUDIBLE) this evening during the votes.

One of the Republican members is a former judge who said you should never allow a plea to be entered if the defendant doesn't really understand what it is. So -- and the other thing is that the testimony -- well, the affidavit that was filed by the government for the search warrant noted that when they took all of the Social Security numbers, they ran it through the database and that...

PILGRIM: Well, we're going to...

LOFGREN: ... 79 percent of them -- it wasn't identity theft. It was identity fabrication.

PILGRIM: Well, let me get to this point, because, Congressman King, it was identity theft, wasn't it?

REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: It absolutely was identity theft. Of those that were arrested, the 389, at least 265 of them did steal someone else's identity. Others just used a false number. But there are at least 265 that stole the identity of someone else.

And additionally, I mean there are victims for every one of those crimes. And one of those victims testified today, and her name is Laura Costner. And she did a great job...

PILGRIM: And we followed this very closely. A heart rending story.

LOFGREN: It was very sad.

PILGRIM: And you know -- her life basically ruined by identity theft. Correct?

KING: Well, yes. It ruined her life and the rest of her life may be ruined as well. She'll never be finished. She'll never know when it's over.

Another point that needs to be made is there is no precedent for a U.S. attorney who is conducting an investigation to come before Congress to testify when they're involved in an investigation. That just hasn't been done and it didn't need to be done today either.

LOFGREN: Well, the investigation of these individuals, they've already plead guilty. We wanted to talk about the matters that had been concluded. We made that very clear.

KING: And, of course, we all know that the individuals that we talked about today are the basis for the evidence for the investigation for the (INAUDIBLE) owners.

LOFGREN: Let me just point this out. There are affidavits -- 78 percent of the Social Security numbers had no name with them. They were fabricated, they didn't belong to anybody. You can't steal somebody's identity if there is no identity. And if you take -- I took statistics in college.

KING: OK. I think you know that.

LOFGREN: If you take the 78 percent...

KING: And I'll agree with that.

LOFGREN: ... and there's a sample that was -- random sample, because not all the employees were present when the raid happened.

KING: But when they did pickup the employees...

LOFGREN: ... 78 percent of them...

KING: ... they ran their numbers through, and they had stolen someone else's identification.

LOFGREN: That's not...

KING: This is just a preliminary evidence that they use.

LOFGREN: That's incorrect, I think.

KING: ... in order to do the investigation.

PILGRIM: I think that you would agree that that is a criminal act to steal someone's Social Security number. There should be no debate about that, Congressman Lofgren.

LOFGREN: If you steal somebody's Social Security numbers, you -- it's identity theft. If you haven't stolen it, it's not identity theft.

Here's the other issue. These...

PILGRIM: If you work illegally, it's against the law, correct?

LOFGREN: If you work illegally, it's a violation of the immigration law, and when you get caught, you're going be deported. We know that. But this is a different issue, which is whether, in the criminal prosecution of these individuals, who the testimony we heard today, have about a third grade education.

They are illiterate in Spanish and English, and whether they actually understood these processes and whether the due process...

PILGRIM: Whether they understood, whether they were using a stolen Social Security number?

LOFGREN: Well, probably they didn't because they can't even read.

PILGRIM: Congressman King, you get the last word on this.

KING: Here's the thing we need to understand is when people enter the United States illegally, and they come to get a job illegally, and the taxpayers of America fund their attorneys and fund their interpreters, and when the evidence shows that at least 265 of them...

LOFGREN: But the evidence doesn't show that.

KING: ... have someone else's identity, because they ran those numbers through, and when the judge has (INAUDIBLE) work with defendants, and goes all the way through the checklist and has the latitude to throw the case out if the evidence isn't before him, that did not happen.

LOFGREN: I think there was severe misconduct judicially in this matter.

KING: And so I think it's clear. We need to enforce the law. And if we're not willing to do this, we can't enforce any laws.

LOFGREN: Which...

KING: .And someone else will run the borders.

LOFGREN: Steve...

KING: Not -- it'll be someone outside of America, any willing traveler sets American immigration policy.

LOFGREN: When the government says we're going to enforce the law, we also need to abide by the law. And if we don't abide by the law and the constitution in the enforcement of the law, then we're this trouble as a country.

KING: On that we agree.

LOFGREN: The constitutional...

(CROSSTALK)

PILGRIM: We must draw the line there. A very spirited and very useful debate. And thank you very much,.

Zoe Lofgren and Steve King, thank you.

KING: Thank you.

PILGRIM: In the interest of work place enforcement raids alone will not solve this nation's immigration crisis. Now many states are forced to take action on their own to deal with this high cost to illegal immigration in their communities.

Now a record 1,500 bills dealing with the crisis were introduced by state legislatures in 2007. We could see a higher number for 2008. More than 1,200 measures have been introduced so far this year. That's according to a new report from the National Conference of State Legislatures. One hundred and seventy-five of those measures have already become law in 39 states.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... dt.01.html

Originally Posted by fedupinwaukegan

I saw him at this hearing on Dobbs yesterday. He seemed very angry.

He's perpetually angry, but only on the side of illegals. The rest of us don't matter (for the Race everything, etc.).

Remember, this is the guy that filed a bill to give our little friend Elvira permanent residency.

Lots of intense emotional feelings backed by the knowledge harbored in a Sociology degree.... If I lived in his district and could vote, I'd choose someone else...

Lofgren and her bunch of immigration lawyers are doing untold damage to this country. It's way past time to put the controls on those folks and let the rule of law supplant their wrongdoing.

Thanks for the posts fedup.

Originally Posted by fedupinwaukegan

Gutierrez said federal authorities filed unfairly tough criminal charges against the workers. He said most of the workers were charged with aggravated criminal identity theft, which means they allegedly stole someone's Social Security number with the intent to gain something, such as a credit card.

"Well we haven't heard testimony here that anybody did anything with Social Security cards other than going to work," he said.


It is hard for me to admit Guitierrez is from Illinois. I saw him at this hearing on Dobbs yesterday. He seemed very angry. At one time he wasn't going to run again, retire...

Other than going to work???? You want to hear from people who get tax notices from someone 'just going to work?' Have their social security messed up? Of course they gained something.

And the true owner of the ss# gained something from this also. A free lifetime of audits from the IRS. Potential penalties and seizure of property for not reporting the income they never received and had no knowledge of. The headache of getting this all straightened out, and last but not least, like the case of the woman in Omaha, being denied life saving medical assistance for her child because an illegal took her ss# and now she "makes" too much money. This illegal, when caught, showed no remorse that somebody almost died from her harmless actions. Her reply was basically, too bad, so sad, not my problem. seems she took the social to support her anchor baby and the fact it almost cost an American life was no big deal.

Great point cayla99. I don't know why it is that people in our opposition - and even in Congress - ALWAYS seem to manage to overlook the implications of that kind of lawbreaking. Illegal immigration is NOT a VICTIMLESS crime! (for the 124,035,894 time!)

If you know someone that has been a victim of ID Theft (I do) you will quickly learn that the hassle is big and expensive and pervasive - it just doesn't seem to 'go away'....

Originally Posted by PhredE

Great point cayla99. I don't know why it is that people in our opposition - and even in Congress - ALWAYS seem to manage to overlook the implications of that kind of lawbreaking. Illegal immigration is NOT a VICTIMLESS crime! (for the 124,035,894 time!)

If you know someone that has been a victim of ID Theft (I do) you will quickly learn that the hassle is big and expensive and pervasive - it just doesn't seem to 'go away'....

Add to it the fact that often it goes unnoticed until financial ruin has already occurred making it all but impossible to fight the damage. Even with court orders, getting the credit agencies to fix this is more difficult than getting a politician to speak the truth. NOBODY is ever made whole financially after ID theft, this is not even taking into account the feelings of violation not dissimilar to that of a rape victim. The damage can be irreparable, especially if it happens to someone late in life with no time to rebuild.

Rep. Luis Gutierrez said

pitiful excuse for a Human being . Spinning Demo crap trying to cover the worst case of "Child and Slave Labor" i've ever seen in the States. China ain't got nothing on the good old USA now on this issue.
So Gutierrez doesn't mind this type of exploitation huh ? This place was/is an out and out human trafficing ring . Or maybe he's trying to "Scare" off the Federal's from getting the Creeps responsible ? Which is what Must be done for this RAid to be Creditiable imo . Illegals are just that Illegal . ID fraud =Felony . Why do Americans have to put up with this ?
Cause King Bush said so ? Or cause little self-serving Rep's like Gutierrez act like a baby ?

If the IA's are smart enough to know they are breaking our law by sneaking into our country and must pay a smuggler to do so and if they are smart enough to know they cannot work here without proper identification because it is ILLEGAL then they know they are guilty of multiple crimes and must be prosecuted.

They will take this experience home with them,spread the word we will no longer tolerate their criminal behavior and it will send a stern warning to others from their countries

This is what roils Lofgren and all of the hispanic congressional caucus because they do not want hispanic IA's stopped from invading our country and they should be arrested for interfering with criminal prosecutions because of their bias and conflict of interest,