E-Verify doesn't prevent many companies from hiring undocumented workers

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Originally Posted by Judy

Americans including our American-owned businesses are the victims of this problem, not criminals. If one dairy farmer hires illegal aliens, then they all have to hire illegal aliens to compete with each other, just like our manufacturers dealing with free trade treason, once one leaves and goes to Mexico or China, they all had to leave and go to Mexico or China to compete with each other.

It took a lot of wrong doing by a lot of people for those businesses to hire illegal aliens or those manufacturers to relocate to foreign countries. Did you know that under our laws, there is no law that forbids an illegal alien from stealing a job from an American worker or taking one that's unfilled? They can go to the US Department of Labor and file claims for erroneous pay and other things and the US Department of Labor will protect them and go after the business for the shortages or whatever the issue is. Isn't that crazy? It's illegal for the employer to hire you but it's not illegal for you as an illegal alien to ask for the job or take the job. Isn't that nuts? To me that's just nutzo.

Our laws set up our businesses to be the scapegoats of illegal immigration, not the Border Patrol who lets them in, the sanctuary cities who protect them, the drug cartels who own the smugglers who bring them here, the networks who make the arrangements, not the IRS who launders billions of our cash out to them in household sums of thousands of dollars a year in earned income and child care tax credits, not the hospitals who treat them, not the schools who educate them, not the 95,000 employees of the US Department of Justice responsible for deporting them but doesn't, not the 225,000 employees of the US Department of Homeland Security who are paid to keep them out, but doesn't, not the landlord who profit from renting to them, not the utility companies who profit serving them, nope, no laws against any of that.

Nope, just our businesses who hire them. If that's not a scapegoat by definition, then I don't know what would be one. Again, I'm not opposed to fines and temporary closures like for a week or so, to sort everything out and get straight, but to send them to jail when an illegal alien can kill a girl in a park and walk out free as a bird? No, I'm not for jail time of employers unless they're involved in illegal drugs or smuggling or something more than just hiring people who showed up and wanted a job when no one else was breaking their door down and their competitors were doing it and on and on and on.

I just don't see the employers as the real villains here to the extent of jail time. I see the illegal aliens as the only real villains. I don't believe in transferring a crime of a foreign national in our country in violation of US immigration to an American employer looking for workers to operate a business who hires them because they are here, in their faces, begging for jobs.

I also don't think it's a wise strategy for our efforts to solve this problem. We need businesses on our side to ever win this. Anyone who thinks we can win this issue without them doesn't understand how our system works, if we make businesses our enemies, we'll end up with the biggest amnesty in the history of the world.

Take this number, there are just over 40,000 licensed dairy operations in the United States and that's 17,000 less than a decade ago. How many of those do you think hire illegal aliens? I don't know the answer to that, but I think a lot of them or most of them hire at least some illegal aliens. They were very vocal about their situation during 2016 campaign. And 1 or 2 were shut down because of those revelations and prosecuted. So to be fair to that industry, you would have to do a raid on all of them. But that isn't how it works, they'll go after 1 or 2, shut them down, and all their fellow dairy operatives who didn't get caught just benefit from their demise and pick up their slack even though they may be hiring more illegal aliens than the one that was raided and shut down. So the result is a weird type of discrimination, because there's no fairness in it.

Illegal aliens need to be the primary if not sole target, because they are the ones causing all the problems for everyone else.

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Wow, I don't even know where to start responding to this nonsense, so I won't. However, I will say this ... you certainly pegged out my B.S. meter. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Judy

Illegal aliens are the disease. Everything else is just the consequence of them being here. Get them all out of here and all the problems they cause for everyone else ends and our country returns to normal.

State and local law enforcement can wrap this up in 2 years or less with authorization to do so.

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I must admit it's shocking to actually here someone on here supporting the aiding and abetting of illegal immigrants. 8-O

Seems like the federal government should put together some program that helps farms facing a labor deficit. My father used to tell stories about the wheat harvesting in North Dakota, and how crews were somehow assembled that went farm to farm to get the crop in. This would only be a small fraction of the cost of detaining or incarcerating illegals.

Republicans might object to this because it would be a type of collectivism. However, what would the collective impact of farms going under be?(which they have often done in the past). According to the USDA, American farms are gradually losing market share to imports.

I don't support hiring illegal aliens, I think illegal aliens should be deported instead of putting all our businesses in jail. But if you think the reverse is a winning strategy, have at it. I would say I'm shocked that you would rather put our businesses in jail instead of deporting illegal aliens, but I'm not. That's been the position for 13 years, how's it working it out?

You can spend the rest of your lives pushing all these proposals. Trump bundled them for you, 70 of them, and asked Congress to pass them for you, with the DACA amnesty deal. He figured that was a fair deal if he got everything he wanted, because although 700,000 to 1,800,000 would remain, he would get what he needed to get the other 28 million out and stop the flow. But we opposed that, right? So here we are waiting for the people of our country to give us a Republican majority in the House and 60 Republican seats in the US Senate. It's possible, so we'll see what happens.

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Originally Posted by Captainron

Seems like the federal government should put together some program that helps farms facing a labor deficit. My father used to tell stories about the wheat harvesting in North Dakota, and how crews were somehow assembled that went farm to farm to get the crop in. This would only be a small fraction of the cost of detaining or incarcerating illegals.

Republicans might object to this because it would be a type of collectivism. However, what would the collective impact of farms going under be?(which they have often done in the past). According to the USDA, American farms are gradually losing market share to imports.

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Republicans would totally support a program that helps our farmers during harvesting season. Especially if they were American Workers.

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Originally Posted by Captainron

Seems like the federal government should put together some program that helps farms facing a labor deficit. My father used to tell stories about the wheat harvesting in North Dakota, and how crews were somehow assembled that went farm to farm to get the crop in. This would only be a small fraction of the cost of detaining or incarcerating illegals.

Republicans might object to this because it would be a type of collectivism. However, what would the collective impact of farms going under be?(which they have often done in the past). According to the USDA, American farms are gradually losing market share to imports.

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What you're describing sound like neighbors helping neighbors ..... a collective of farmers and their families helping each other during harvest time. Of course during the great depression we had migrant farm workers (American's) that used to go farm to farm harvesting crops.

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Originally Posted by Judy

I don't support hiring illegal aliens, I think illegal aliens should be deported instead of putting all our businesses in jail. But if you think the reverse is a winning strategy, have at it. I would say I'm shocked that you would rather put our businesses in jail instead of deporting illegal aliens, but I'm not.

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These businesses who employ illegals are the ones who hurt American businesses who play by the rules and only employ Americans, because they have a very hard time competing with these criminal businesses who can sell their products for less since they don't have to pay their illegal employees that much money. These criminal businesses who employ illegals are putting American businesses who employ only Americans, out of business. Yes, to me that's considered a criminal act and should be treated as such.

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Originally Posted by 6 Million Dollar Man

These businesses who employ illegals are the ones who hurt American businesses who play by the rules and only employ Americans, because they have a very hard time competing with these criminal businesses who can sell their products for less since they don't have to pay their illegal employees that much money. These criminal businesses who employ illegals are putting American businesses who employ only Americans, out of business. Yes, to me that's considered a criminal act and should be treated as such.

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Oh, and not only the American business owners that they are hurting, but the biggy, American workers are being hurt the most because these jobs are going to illegals instead of to them. Let's think about that for a moment also.

Judy, I consider you a friend on here, although we're disagreeing like hell on this particular thread. Let's take a breather. Here's a video of me back in the 1970s fighting Bigfoot. Now that we're older though, me and bigfoot are good buds, like my avatar shows. We go and have a beer once in a while. He actually saved my ass a couple times in bar fights. He's a good person/bigfoot to have on your side in a bar fight. ;-)

https://youtu.be/IVYGHHc0Es4

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Originally Posted by 6 Million Dollar Man

These businesses who employ illegals are the ones who hurt American businesses who play by the rules and only employ Americans, because they have a very hard time competing with these criminal businesses who can sell their products for less since they don't have to pay their illegal employees that much money. These criminal businesses who employ illegals are putting American businesses who employ only Americans, out of business. Yes, to me that's considered a criminal act and should be treated as such.

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Are you familiar with the term scab? See back in the day when unions were strong, workers who went on strike didn't attack their employer when they had disagreements, because they didn't want to hurt the hand that was feeding them, they attacked the scabs breaking the picket line. Back in the day, Americans didn't blame an employer for hiring workers, they blamed the person stealing their job. Back in the day, we didn't expect the government to do everything for us, we ran those motherfvckers off the job site and sometimes all the way out of town. It's why everyone carried a baseball bat during a strike.