Thread: Are immigrants stealing jobs or filling needs?

By Devona Walker
Staff Writer
On the killing floors of U.S. slaughterhouses and meatpacking plants, work is tedious at times, arduous at others. It's a complicated maze of conveyor belts, bloodied hooks and bone-severing knives, with some of the highest worker casualty rates of all labor sectors.


The work has not changed much. But the demographic of its workers and pay has changed radically. So have many communities in Oklahoma's Panhandle that owe their livelihoods to the killing floor. Midwestern towns have been culturally, economically and demographically transformed.

"Back then, most everybody in town worked at the meatpacking plant,â€

[quote]In 1979, meatpacking wages were about 20 percent more than manufacturing wages. By 1987, meatpacking wages were on average 15 percent less than manufacturing wages, Horowitz said. "The immigrants came later. White workers went away because they wouldn't work for those wages,â€

Just read this article about a farmer in upstate NY, she's been raided TWICE and is whining about it. At the end of the story this is what is written:

Pay is not the problem
One question in the background of the debate is why employers do not raise wages to avoid legal problems and attract a native-born workforce. But unlike other industries that might attract more workers with greater pay — such as nursing and segments of the technology industry — it is not clear that raising wages for agricultural work would attract Americans to these jobs. Between 1990 and 2006, wages in agriculture have increased 54%, from an average of $6.12 per hour to $9.44 per hour (both figures are in 2006 dollars). Yet shortages remain common.

Employers and their advocates say that the fact that wages have increased so much and workers are still scarce is evidence that pay is not the problem. "This is not just about wages," says Regelbrugge. "Who wants to get up 3 a.m. and milk the cows? It's not a lifestyle many Americans opt for, especially when there are more comfortable alternatives."

Others argue that raising wages would undoubtedly attract more workers. "Labor shortages are created by employers," says Ana Avendano, director of the immigrant worker program for the AFL-CIO. "Employers say they can't find workers, but look at the conditions they are offering. Some of them are atrocious."

But Torrey says she offers good working conditions, and provides housing and a 401(k) plan for her workers. Workers start at $7.15 an hour, and the average wage on the farm is $10.95 to $11.95 per hour. "It doesn't matter if I raise wages," says Torrey. "We just don't have the population base. There's no one out there."

Her farm is located near Buffalo.. now I KNOW Buffalo is a dying town since the Steel mills left. IF she honestly were offering wages up to $12 an hour, she COULD and WOULD attract Americans in need! It's just GREED...

here is a link to the entire story:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21491778/from/ET/

This proves the lie that the savings from lower wages benefits us consumers in any way. Anyone who has to maintain a household knows it's not true. I once read that the wages of migrant workers are only a small percentage of what we pay at the grocery store. And in my profession, IT, the savings from hiring cheaper foreigners go into the corporate maw, where they vanish. This is why global labor arbitrage is harmful to us: it lowers or removes our income while any cost savings is negligible or nonexistent.

Betsy - and also, there's another famous example of what you're talking about by Charles Kernaghan of the National Labor Committee (I think that's the correct name..) where he tracked the movement of a textile manufacturer from US SE that went to Honduras or Guatemala (this is all from memory, and it's still early AND I haven't had my coffee!)... anyway, before moving out of the country, the labor input required to produce the item was approx. 15-20% of the total cost. After moving out ('offshore') it lowered to about 1% of the total cost. Anyone care to guess what happened to the sale price for the wholesaler or end retailer? Yep, you guessed it: it was the same!

Unbridled greed will destroy this country.

Thank you Phred - why do I get the feeling that the American consumer is seen by everyone else in the world as a gigantic unending cash cow?

[quote]For instance, the Social Security Administration's "suspense file,â€

In the end, it's all about (these are my words here, no else's - that I'm aware of at least...):
privatization of the benefits, and forcing the costs onto the greater public.

Such thing does not contribute to, nor can sustain, a civil society

I also read the story (on MSNBC) about the NY onion farmer who is complaining that the ICE raids are depleting her available workforce. Odds are that her onion crop is the "long day" variety, (grown in the northern US) and this type does well with mechanical harvesting.
Here is a company which deals in harvesting machines for various crops including onions:
http://www.ics-agri.com/bulb-harvesters.htm
The company is headquartered in France, but sells its products throughout the world.
The Japanese have an onion peeling machine:
http://www.onionpeeler.com/

American farmers have gotten used to a ready supply of human labor. Farmers in other parts of the world have had to adopt mechnaical devices--so at least the technology has been perfected and is available.

Filling whose needs? No our, but theirs and corporations. Job are not waiting to be filled. Illegals create jobs for themselves and make corporation richer. We can and have always provided for our needs and some left over to send to other countries. But greedy corporations will never outgrow the need to make more money. The more illegals we have in the country the more corporation will have to produce to meet their needs resulting in more money for them.
If all illegal aliens were deported, corporations would not need to produce more and they would not make more money. But do we really care? Prices of every thing is going up because of demand. Prices will drop if the need(demand)for more is not there. We win, corporations and illegals lose.