Thread: Civil Liability in Illegal Immigration?

We do have a right to protect ourselves from clearly dangerous activities and abuses of our rights. That can include filing civil lawsuits where appropriate. Yes, I do know that there is a theory of assumed risk and you cannot sue at the drop of a hat. But actually through a number of acts our government has determined that illegal aliens are a clear danger.

In 1798 Congress authorized the "Alien-Enemy Act" which still has been held by the Supreme Court as applicable law.
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/statutes/alien.htm
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 spelled out most of current immigration law, and then was modified in 1996. The US State department has issue directives identifying illegal aliens as dangerous to US citizens. Congress has not distinguished some illegal aliens as safe and some as dangerous. It lumps them all together--to equally protect us from Chinese or Iranian illegals or those from Britain or France. Although there are other distinction for those with origination from certain countries.

If a business comes to our home, or to our neighborhood, which employs unauthorized aliens is it not possible that we are placed in danger? One day that business may have a Mexican--the next day it might send a jihadist from Afghanistan--we just don't know. If we walk past a site employing illegals are we not placed in danger?

If any amnesty to illegals is granted by the US Congress then these people will have legal status and will not--all conditions being equal-- be in the dangerous category. So I would act soon. What do you all think? Even in small claims courts the limits have risen quite a lot in the last few years.

I am feeling uncomfortable right now because the landlord put in a new fire alarm but it was done by a contractor not the regular maintenance guy. Each time their contractor was in the building he brought in another Latino male to do the ceiling work. I have been an active outspoken member of the immigration control movement who typically pickets right at the head of the other sides marches. I feel insecure about these visitors though I do not think I will stop.

I'm actually surprised some lawyer has not filed suit in some of these cases under the theory of Negligence, Wrongful Death, Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress, etc. Not in small claims court though as I will discuss later on.

I suspect the greatest deterent is that most private lawyers cannot afford a long drawn out battle against a city, state ,or Federal Gov who could conceivably defend such a case indefinitely. In addition, I understand it's very difficult to prevail in a case against the fed gov even though the burden of proof needed to prevail is less than beyond reasonable doubt.

Moreover , there are procedural issues to consider as well. Who would be a party to the lawsuit. Do you name the city, state, or fed gov as defendants in the pleading. Under the doctorine of joinder, you could include all conceivable parties I supose. Under the Tort of Negligence, we have to determine who has the duty to protect the citizens and who has breached that duty as a result of their refusal to enforce Federal Immigration Law? There is also jursidictional issues, venue, etc.

I don't know Captain. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy task and you would need a lawyer who knows how to bring a suit against the goverment.

You cannot sue a Federal Gov Agency in small claims court. You may be able to sue city or state agencies. But then we get back to the earlier question of duty and who has it, and who is in breach of it

Being placed in danger is not a cause of action as far as I know, and how would you establish that specific person your walking past is illegal? How would you establish that specific person is anymore dangerous because he is illegal. Are you going to ask him? And even if he did tell you, I doubt the company is gong to admit to this pratice. If a specific person has caused you harm, you could certainly bring him to small claims court, irrespective of his legal status, but why not bring him to municipal court if you have a good case as there will be no limit on the judgement that can be rendered.

You may be able to get an injuction against a company, but you would have to prove the act they are engaging in poses an immediate danger to the public at large. Yes, illegals are dangerous, but how are you going to establish this particular person is any more dangerous because he happens to be illegal?

Keep in mind i'm not a lawyer, but have been to law school. This analysis is my personal opinion and may or not be entirely correct and is not meant to convey any expertise or knowledge which may be construed as legal advice.

Wouldn't the victims such as Jamiel Shaw's family be considered in danger right now if they begin to fit city hall and try to get a bill passed to stop the Special Order 40. That might be considered placed in jeopardy when illegal gangs have already shot their child and they are activating to stop it.

?????????????////

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/ny...08actress.html

It was the hanging that killed Adrienne Shelly, a Manhattan actress and a mother, the authorities said yesterday. And it was the ruse of a fake suicide that ultimately led detectives to the man charged with killing her.

Such was the courtroom revelation at the arraignment of Diego Pillco, 19, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Ms. Shelly, 40, last week. The case has given pause to even the most experienced police investigators, who call it one of the most macabre killings in memory
....
...
Ultimately, investigators said, Mr. Pillco admitted under questioning by detectives that he had been working in a third-floor apartment beneath Ms. Shelly’s, that she had complained about construction noise, and that their confrontation had convulsed into violence, ending in Ms. Shelly’s death.

...
...
Mr. Hernandez’s statement appeared to include an admission that he had illegally employed an undocumented immigrant. Marc Raimondi, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said he could not comment on the case.

GO to the link for the complete article, I just posted parts of it here.

This illegal alien had no prior criminal record and still managed to kill a woman in the apartment building he was working on.

Her family should be able to sue the employer for everything he's got, shouldn't they?

I don't know Captain. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy task and you would need a lawyer who knows how to bring a suit against the government.

I didn't have the federal government as defendant in mind. That has been discussed elsewhere on this board.

I was thinking more in instances where you are working on a job where they keep hiring more illegals. Or if your city funds a day labor center and you have to walk past it, or live near it. Or, this just happened, some utility work has been occurring for the last few weeks, much of it right in front of my house, and I reasonably think they have illegals doing some of the work. Illegals should never work on govt contracts, in my opinion. And they certainly should not be in areas of high security. We never know what security risks they could pose.

The reason I suggested small claims is that one might not find a lawyer to even take a case, if your suffering is mental and emotional. The small claims limits have gone up. To $12,500 in some states; $5,000 is typical. But good luck if you could get a lawyer to go for bigger damages.

I think the argument is sound, though. Otherwwise I wouldn't have brought it up. There is both federal law and federal directives. They might tell you to take it to federal court then. I dunno...

Originally Posted by Gogo

Wouldn't the victims such as Jamiel Shaw's family be considered in danger right now if they begin to fit city hall and try to get a bill passed to stop the Special Order 40. That might be considered placed in jeopardy when illegal gangs have already shot their child and they are activating to stop it.

?????????????////

Sure they may be in danger, but just because you might be in danger does not give you standing to bring a cause of action. Also, keep in mind(as harsh as this is going to sound) the victim, Jamiel Shaw, is deceased.

Now, if the surviving family members have received "specific threats" from a group or an individual, they could certainly go to court and seek an injuction againt those who are making threats against them.

I'm not saying I agree with any of this Gogo, it's just how it is unfortunately

Originally Posted by miguelina

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/08/ny...08actress.html

It was the hanging that killed Adrienne Shelly, a Manhattan actress and a mother, the authorities said yesterday. And it was the ruse of a fake suicide that ultimately led detectives to the man charged with killing her.

Such was the courtroom revelation at the arraignment of Diego Pillco, 19, an illegal immigrant from Ecuador who is charged with second-degree murder in the death of Ms. Shelly, 40, last week. The case has given pause to even the most experienced police investigators, who call it one of the most macabre killings in memory
....
...
Ultimately, investigators said, Mr. Pillco admitted under questioning by detectives that he had been working in a third-floor apartment beneath Ms. Shelly’s, that she had complained about construction noise, and that their confrontation had convulsed into violence, ending in Ms. Shelly’s death.

...
...
Mr. Hernandez’s statement appeared to include an admission that he had illegally employed an undocumented immigrant. Marc Raimondi, a spokesman for Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said he could not comment on the case.

GO to the link for the complete article, I just posted parts of it here.

This illegal alien had no prior criminal record and still managed to kill a woman in the apartment building he was working on.

Her family should be able to sue the employer for everything he's got, shouldn't they?

In this case, it would seem the surviving family members could bring a civil suit for wrongful death, negligence, against the employer and also name the illegal in the suit as well.

The employer may be liable because at the time of the act, the accused was under the companies employee and was engaged in work which he was assigned as a result of the employment through that company. In this case, his employment is the what allowed access to the apartment building, and but for such employment, he probably would have not been in that building.

Of course, the companies attorney will argue the accused was acting outside the scope of his employment at the time of this murder and thus he should not be held liable.

Originally Posted by Captainron

I don't know Captain. I'm sure it could be done, but it would not be an easy task and you would need a lawyer who knows how to bring a suit against the government.

I didn't have the federal government as defendant in mind. That has been discussed elsewhere on this board.

I was thinking more in instances where you are working on a job where they keep hiring more illegals. Or if your city funds a day labor center and you have to walk past it, or live near it. Or, this just happened, some utility work has been occurring for the last few weeks, much of it right in front of my house, and I reasonably think they have illegals doing some of the work. Illegals should never work on govt contracts, in my opinion. And they certainly should not be in areas of high security. We never know what security risks they could pose.

The reason I suggested small claims is that one might not find a lawyer to even take a case, if your suffering is mental and emotional. The small claims limits have gone up. To $12,500 in some states; $5,000 is typical. But good luck if you could get a lawyer to go for bigger damages.

I think the argument is sound, though. Otherwwise I wouldn't have brought it up. There is both federal law and federal directives. They might tell you to take it to federal court then. I dunno...

Captain, your arguments are definetly sound. I think in the case of the day labor center in a neighborhood is a good example of a situation in which one could possibly pursue under a theory of a public nuisnance. I do not know the exact elements of that cause of action off hand(could look it up), but I do know a property owner has the right to enjoy, feel secure in his personal property among another rights.

Certainly, one could argue those rights could extend to the immediate neighborhood in which you have to utilize on a regular basis to get to and from your property. You could seek an injuction that prohibits the further operation of that day labor center, as the remedy in such a cause of action.

That sounds good in theory, but when you sue them, you have given them your name and address. They WILL come after you, be ready with video.

My mom's house was very close to a catering hall. Catering hall was bought out by a "nightclub/dance hall".

Loud music, riots in the street in front of her house several times, revving engines in the parking lot next door, public drunkeness, vomiting, urinating, passing out, having sex on her property and more. This happened every weekend and 2 weeknights every week.

Complained to police, they can't do anything unless they catch them in the act. Mind you, they are standing on her porch and they can HEAR the noise at 2am! Tell her to take club owner to small claims court. We do and she wins.

Then the fun starts. Windows are broken by guys "playing soccer" in the parking lot..oops, so sorry. She finds more bottles in her yard, someone breaks the gate, etc. We find out later that several town council members and police were "friends" of this club owner. She was terrorized to a point she feared sitting on her own porch.

I installed hidden cameras at several places and did not inform anyone. Caught alot on tape, took a copy to the PD and told them if ANY other "accidents" were to happen to her or her property, and they refused to do anything about it, I would take to Prosecuter's Office.

They finally listened and stopped the vandalism, but the noise continued and she was back where she started from. I still called the Prosecutor's Office anyway.

If anyone wants to file against anything to do with illegal aliens, make sure you RECORD- VIDEO OR PHOTOS any violations to back you up. Also ask for police protection up front.