Thread: Barney Frank Bailout Bill (H.R. 4173)

Dear Friend,

As most of you are, I am sick of all the government bailouts that haven’t delivered on their big promises. I just learned about Congressman Barney Frank's new proposal today that includes both more bureaucracy and another new czar. It is called the Barney Frank Bailout Bill (H.R. 4173) and it smells exactly like all the other reckless spending legislation Washington is pushing through Congress these days.

You may not have heard about this bill yet. But the Democrats are determined to pass it so I wanted to make sure you’re aware. I’m opposed to this bill and will fight against it. As with the government taking over our health care, this bill will take over your personal finances. It is over 1200 pages long and creates a permanent $200 billion bailout fund for financial lending institutions which you will pay for in the form of fees handed down by your bank.

The czar created in this legislation will decide what credit products you should be able to choose from. The legislation could increase interest rates by 1.5% and will cost over 1 million jobs. Unless you are a trial lawyer or a Washington bureaucrat there aren’t too many upsides for consumers.

As always, please feel free to contact me on this issue or any others.

Sincerely,

Kay Granger

When are the people of his state going to can his a$$. He is a freak. He is an idiot. What planet was he born on?

The only bill that the American people should support that has Barney Frank's name on it is the decriminalization of marijuana bill he co-sponsored with Ron Paul.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/15 ... marijuana/

"Barney Frank and Ron Paul Team Up to Decriminalize Marijuana

"Posted: 07/15/09

"A new bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives that would "eliminate most Federal penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use, and for other purposes." H.R. 5843 is sponsored by Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank and co-sponsored by Texas Republican Ron Paul, among others. The bill carries a very reassuring title, too: Act to Remove Federal Penalties for Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults.

"Over the past few years, numerous states have passed so-called "medical marijuana" laws, allowing doctors to prescribe pot to patients to treat a variety of symptoms. A total of 13 states have also passed measures decriminalizing marijuana. This new bill would expand that tolerance of the drug to include open recreational use.

"Interviewed recently by Esquire about the new measure, Frank was asked why Congress is taking so long to take action that so many states have pursued. Here's his response:

" "This is a case where there's cultural lag on the part of my colleagues. If you ask them privately, they don't think it's a terrible thing. But they're afraid of being portrayed as soft on drugs."

"Another politician who has never been accused of being afraid to express his beliefs on legalizing pot is Paul, who gave a memorable interview on the subject a few months ago. Watch it here.

"So, it's clear what Barney Frank and Ron Paul think about decriminalizing marijuana, but what's your take?"

_________________________

For more information about legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade, visit this website, LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)

www.leap.cc

Then we can redirect these misdirected law enforcement, prosecution and incarceration expenses to arresting and deporting illegal aliens so we can get Americans their jobs back and their wages up so they can get off of welfare, unemployment and other government assistance support and work, earn and pay their own bills the way it should be. Then we can reduce the government spending and government debt supporting the spending deficits supporting people whose jobs were stolen from them by illegal aliens because our stupid governments were using law enforcement to chase citizen pot smokers into prison instead of chasing illegal aliens out of the country.

Judy, with all due respect, legalizing marijuana is like legalizing illegal aliens. It won't stop there. The unintended consequences as always, are the problem. Toke away if you want but not on my dime. We've got enough problems already.

Originally Posted by Judy

The only bill that the American people should support that has Barney Frank's name on it is the decriminalization of marijuana bill he co-sponsored with Ron Paul.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/15 ... marijuana/

"Barney Frank and Ron Paul Team Up to Decriminalize Marijuana

"Posted: 07/15/09

"A new bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives that would "eliminate most Federal penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use, and for other purposes." H.R. 5843 is sponsored by Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank and co-sponsored by Texas Republican Ron Paul, among others. The bill carries a very reassuring title, too: Act to Remove Federal Penalties for Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults.

"Over the past few years, numerous states have passed so-called "medical marijuana" laws, allowing doctors to prescribe pot to patients to treat a variety of symptoms. A total of 13 states have also passed measures decriminalizing marijuana. This new bill would expand that tolerance of the drug to include open recreational use.

"Interviewed recently by Esquire about the new measure, Frank was asked why Congress is taking so long to take action that so many states have pursued. Here's his response:

" "This is a case where there's cultural lag on the part of my colleagues. If you ask them privately, they don't think it's a terrible thing. But they're afraid of being portrayed as soft on drugs."

"Another politician who has never been accused of being afraid to express his beliefs on legalizing pot is Paul, who gave a memorable interview on the subject a few months ago. Watch it here.

"So, it's clear what Barney Frank and Ron Paul think about decriminalizing marijuana, but what's your take?"

_________________________

For more information about legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade, visit this website, LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)

www.leap.cc

Then we can redirect these misdirected law enforcement, prosecution and incarceration expenses to arresting and deporting illegal aliens so we can get Americans their jobs back and their wages up so they can get off of welfare, unemployment and other government assistance support and work, earn and pay their own bills the way it should be. Then we can reduce the government spending and government debt supporting the spending deficits supporting people whose jobs were stolen from them by illegal aliens because our stupid governments were using law enforcement to chase citizen pot smokers into prison instead of chasing illegal aliens out of the country.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Judy, with all due respect, legalizing marijuana is like legalizing illegal aliens. It won't stop there. The unintended consequences as always, are the problem. Toke away if you want but not on my dime. We've got enough problems already.

Originally Posted by Judy

The only bill that the American people should support that has Barney Frank's name on it is the decriminalization of marijuana bill he co-sponsored with Ron Paul.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/15 ... marijuana/

"Barney Frank and Ron Paul Team Up to Decriminalize Marijuana

"Posted: 07/15/09

"A new bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives that would "eliminate most Federal penalties for possession of marijuana for personal use, and for other purposes." H.R. 5843 is sponsored by Massachusetts Democrat Barney Frank and co-sponsored by Texas Republican Ron Paul, among others. The bill carries a very reassuring title, too: Act to Remove Federal Penalties for Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults.

"Over the past few years, numerous states have passed so-called "medical marijuana" laws, allowing doctors to prescribe pot to patients to treat a variety of symptoms. A total of 13 states have also passed measures decriminalizing marijuana. This new bill would expand that tolerance of the drug to include open recreational use.

"Interviewed recently by Esquire about the new measure, Frank was asked why Congress is taking so long to take action that so many states have pursued. Here's his response:

" "This is a case where there's cultural lag on the part of my colleagues. If you ask them privately, they don't think it's a terrible thing. But they're afraid of being portrayed as soft on drugs."

"Another politician who has never been accused of being afraid to express his beliefs on legalizing pot is Paul, who gave a memorable interview on the subject a few months ago. Watch it here.

"So, it's clear what Barney Frank and Ron Paul think about decriminalizing marijuana, but what's your take?"

_________________________

For more information about legalizing/regulating/taxing the illegal drug trade, visit this website, LEAP (Law Enforcement Against Prohibition)

www.leap.cc

Then we can redirect these misdirected law enforcement, prosecution and incarceration expenses to arresting and deporting illegal aliens so we can get Americans their jobs back and their wages up so they can get off of welfare, unemployment and other government assistance support and work, earn and pay their own bills the way it should be. Then we can reduce the government spending and government debt supporting the spending deficits supporting people whose jobs were stolen from them by illegal aliens because our stupid governments were using law enforcement to chase citizen pot smokers into prison instead of chasing illegal aliens out of the country.

With all due respect Texasborn, I don't toke, have never toked and have no desire to toke and never have, and legalizing drugs is nothing at all like legalizing illegal aliens. Illegal aliens steal jobs, businesses, education, health care and drain our money supply out of the country through remittances and an illegal drug trade. Drug users aren't doing that. In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves. If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

The primary reason we can't get a handle on illegal immigration is because foreign drug cartels need open borders to run the illegal drug trade. If there was no illegal drug trade and instead a legalized/regulated/taxed drug trade owned and operated 100% by US citizens, from field to factory to retail store, then there would be no drug cartels, because they would be out out out of business the day legalization went into effect.

We have a discussion about decriminalizing and legalization/regulation/taxing the illegal drug trade on another thread. I'll get the link and post it here if you'd like to join in:

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-180109-dru ... nalization

It's a controversial issue, but one which I think Americans need to think and learn more about because the War on Drugs gig we've got going now will soon be a 100 year futile racist failure. At some point, people have to admit that you can't expect different results by doing the same things that didn't work. The War on Drugs was started in 1913 ... 2% of the US population were addicts. Almost 100 years later, after trillions spent on it, the bulk of it sent offshore to foreign cartels, the addiction rate of the US population is still 2%. All we've done is arrest and incarcerate without due cause millions of US citizens, ruined their lives, broken their families apart, ruined their ability to get a job with a felony record, and not stopped 1 sale of illegal drugs in the process or kept 1 person off drugs who wanted them. The War on Drugs is the epitome of the unintended consequences of a failed program. The people who use drugs are our citizens who have a right to use drugs without being arrested, their liberty taken from them, their careers ruined or even murdered by police officers during arrests or drug raids. We the people don't have the right to do that to people who for whatever reason they have that caused them to choose to use drugs. We also don't have the right to prevent other Americans from providing those drugs so long as they comply with the regulations and collect the FairTaxes on the transactions.

The War on Drugs has turned safe neighborhoods into combat zones. The War on Drugs has turned schools into illegal drug stores. The War on Drugs has turned children into both users, runners, dealers and collectors for an illegal violent criminal foreign-cartel network. Talk about "unintended consequences" .. the War on Drugs is an unintended consequence that costs Americans $70 billion a year just in enforcement costs with no change in the addiction or usage rates.

If people want to continue to fund an illegal foreign controlled War on Drugs, please ... not on my dime.

"...In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves..."

Highly debatable. Family members, employers and friends might come to a different conclusion.

If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Just exactly who is the "we" who would be doing the regulation? Government?? Let me sleep on that one after I've had a good laugh and an involuntary stomach purge

Prohibition drove alcohol sales underground and criminal. But people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. Prohibition was lifted, the trade was "regulated" but people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. See a pattern here?

Legalize drugs? Look to places like "Amsterdamned" to get some answers as to how this wonderful experiment has worked out. Sorry, that's not the kind of place I want to live and raise my kids and I think a majority of American families would agree with me.

Let's not kid ourselves by ignoring cause and effect. The effect on ordinary Americans will still be the same, regulated or not. The unintended consequences? Children will get the message that it must be ok since it's legal, just like booze. Judy, people are tired of the gradual and insidious encroachment on their moral and religious values and sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and say no more.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

"...In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves..."

Highly debatable. Family members, employers and friends might come to a different conclusion.

If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Just exactly who is the "we" who would be doing the regulation? Government?? Let me sleep on that one after I've had a good laugh and an involuntary stomach purge

Prohibition drove alcohol sales underground and criminal. But people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. Prohibition was lifted, the trade was "regulated" but people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. See a pattern here?

Legalize drugs? Look to places like "Amsterdamned" to get some answers as to how this wonderful experiment has worked out. Sorry, that's not the kind of place I want to live and raise my kids and I think a majority of American families would agree with me.

Let's not kid ourselves by ignoring cause and effect. The effect on ordinary Americans will still be the same, regulated or not. The unintended consequences? Children will get the message that it must be ok since it's legal, just like booze. Judy, people are tired of the gradual and insidious encroachment on their moral and religious values and sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and say no more.

The "we" would be government regulators much the way we regulate the pharmaceutical industry that regulates the production, distribution and sales of prescription medicines coupled with the way we regulate alcohol and tobacco products.

No one is killing anyone in the United States over buying or selling alcohol, and no neighborhood, school, apartment building, park, street corner or alley is under the siege of alcohol gangs controlled by criminal foreign alcohol cartels.

No one is encroaching on anyone's moral or religious values by legalizing, regulating and taxing the illegal drug trade and legalization won't impact children in a negative way at all. In fact, it will make drugs much harder for them to get and they'll be more educated about the risk and consequences before they use because part of the taxes collected will be used to do just that, and if they do get them, the drugs will be safer made with proper mixes so they don't accidentally overdose, and parents will have free counseling, medical care and rehabilitation to deal with it properly.

As to employers, employers can still drug test if they want to. Nothing in legalization will change an employers right to random drug tests. Although, a couple of years ago when I was doing research on this, there was a national OSHA study that shocked the researchers that showed no link between drug use and work-place accidents.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, TexasBorn. I don't understand why people are attracted to drugs, but the fact is a certain percentage of our population is, and the best moral and Christian thing we as a society can do, is ensure a legal safe American controlled-trade, that's regulated by quality, quantity and age, using a civil code of regulations instead of a criminal code. To me there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults, and that's assuming you didn't kill them in a drug raid before they even got their day in court. The War on Drugs is what's immoral and when you learn what is actually happening to these poor people because of the War on Drugs, I believe you'll agree with me.

www.leap.cc

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

"...In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves..."

Highly debatable. Family members, employers and friends might come to a different conclusion.

If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Just exactly who is the "we" who would be doing the regulation? Government?? Let me sleep on that one after I've had a good laugh and an involuntary stomach purge

Prohibition drove alcohol sales underground and criminal. But people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. Prohibition was lifted, the trade was "regulated" but people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. See a pattern here?

Legalize drugs? Look to places like "Amsterdamned" to get some answers as to how this wonderful experiment has worked out. Sorry, that's not the kind of place I want to live and raise my kids and I think a majority of American families would agree with me.

Let's not kid ourselves by ignoring cause and effect. The effect on ordinary Americans will still be the same, regulated or not. The unintended consequences? Children will get the message that it must be ok since it's legal, just like booze. Judy, people are tired of the gradual and insidious encroachment on their moral and religious values and sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and say no more.

The "we" would be government regulators much the way we regulate the pharmaceutical industry that regulates the production, distribution and sales of prescription medicines coupled with the way we regulate alcohol and tobacco products.

No one is killing anyone in the United States over buying or selling alcohol, and no neighborhood, school, apartment building, park, street corner or alley is under the siege of alcohol gangs controlled by criminal foreign alcohol cartels.

No one is encroaching on anyone's moral or religious values by legalizing, regulating and taxing the illegal drug trade and legalization won't impact children in a negative way at all. In fact, it will make drugs much harder for them to get and they'll be more educated about the risk and consequences before they use because part of the taxes collected will be used to do just that, and if they do get them, the drugs will be safer made with proper mixes so they don't accidentally overdose, and parents will have free counseling, medical care and rehabilitation to deal with it properly.

As to employers, employers can still drug test if they want to. Nothing in legalization will change an employers right to random drug tests. Although, a couple of years ago when I was doing research on this, there was a national OSHA study that shocked the researchers that showed no link between drug use and work-place accidents.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, TexasBorn. I don't understand why people are attracted to drugs, but the fact is a certain percentage of our population is, and the best moral and Christian thing we as a society can do, is ensure a legal safe American controlled-trade, that's regulated by quality, quantity and age, using a civil code of regulations instead of a criminal code. To me there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults, and that's assuming you didn't kill them in a drug raid before they even got their day in court. The War on Drugs is what's immoral and when you learn what is actually happening to these poor people because of the War on Drugs, I believe you'll agree with me.

www.leap.cc

Judy, you missed two key points:

1. The effect of drugs on the human body will always be the same, illegal or not.

2. You have ignored the law of unintended consequences and this is where I believe that your arguments fly off into lala land. Too many opinions and speculation on what might/could/should happen in the event that drugs become legalized. There is a reason that there hasn't been a national outcry to legalize dangerous drugs...the common sense of everyday citizens. People instinctively know the dangers of opening pandora's box and how hard it is to close once the genie is out.

You say ..."there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults..."

There are two major flaws in this argument:

1. It isn't immoral to punish someone for breaking the law of the land. Without laws and the enforcement thereof, we have anarchy. Why should someone knowingly selling or possessing illegal drugs be given a pass?? Nonsensical in the extreme.

2. Also, how can one reasonably assume that someone won't sell a potentially deadly drug to children? Of course the answer is "we can't".

NO AMNESTY & NO DRUGS.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

"...In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves..."

Highly debatable. Family members, employers and friends might come to a different conclusion.

If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Just exactly who is the "we" who would be doing the regulation? Government?? Let me sleep on that one after I've had a good laugh and an involuntary stomach purge

Prohibition drove alcohol sales underground and criminal. But people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. Prohibition was lifted, the trade was "regulated" but people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. See a pattern here?

Legalize drugs? Look to places like "Amsterdamned" to get some answers as to how this wonderful experiment has worked out. Sorry, that's not the kind of place I want to live and raise my kids and I think a majority of American families would agree with me.

Let's not kid ourselves by ignoring cause and effect. The effect on ordinary Americans will still be the same, regulated or not. The unintended consequences? Children will get the message that it must be ok since it's legal, just like booze. Judy, people are tired of the gradual and insidious encroachment on their moral and religious values and sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and say no more.

The "we" would be government regulators much the way we regulate the pharmaceutical industry that regulates the production, distribution and sales of prescription medicines coupled with the way we regulate alcohol and tobacco products.

No one is killing anyone in the United States over buying or selling alcohol, and no neighborhood, school, apartment building, park, street corner or alley is under the siege of alcohol gangs controlled by criminal foreign alcohol cartels.

No one is encroaching on anyone's moral or religious values by legalizing, regulating and taxing the illegal drug trade and legalization won't impact children in a negative way at all. In fact, it will make drugs much harder for them to get and they'll be more educated about the risk and consequences before they use because part of the taxes collected will be used to do just that, and if they do get them, the drugs will be safer made with proper mixes so they don't accidentally overdose, and parents will have free counseling, medical care and rehabilitation to deal with it properly.

As to employers, employers can still drug test if they want to. Nothing in legalization will change an employers right to random drug tests. Although, a couple of years ago when I was doing research on this, there was a national OSHA study that shocked the researchers that showed no link between drug use and work-place accidents.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, TexasBorn. I don't understand why people are attracted to drugs, but the fact is a certain percentage of our population is, and the best moral and Christian thing we as a society can do, is ensure a legal safe American controlled-trade, that's regulated by quality, quantity and age, using a civil code of regulations instead of a criminal code. To me there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults, and that's assuming you didn't kill them in a drug raid before they even got their day in court. The War on Drugs is what's immoral and when you learn what is actually happening to these poor people because of the War on Drugs, I believe you'll agree with me.

www.leap.cc

Judy, you missed two key points:

1. The effect of drugs on the human body will always be the same, illegal or not.

2. You have ignored the law of unintended consequences and this is where I believe that your arguments fly off into lala land. Too many opinions and speculation on what might/could/should happen in the event that drugs become legalized. There is a reason that there hasn't been a national outcry to legalize dangerous drugs...the common sense of everyday citizens. People instinctively know the dangers of opening pandora's box and how hard it is to close once the genie is out.

You say ..."there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults..."

There are two major flaws in this argument:

1. It isn't immoral to punish someone for breaking the law of the land. Without laws and the enforcement thereof, we have anarchy. Why should someone knowingly selling or possessing illegal drugs be given a pass?? Nonsensical in the extreme.

2. Also, how can one reasonably assume that someone won't sell a potentially deadly drug to children? Of course the answer is "we can't".

NO AMNESTY & NO DRUGS.

No, you don't understand. After legalization, the drugs will be legal, regulated, monitored, controlled. What people do to their own bodies is up to them, TexasBorn. We're a free nation of free people. If people want to eat themselves to death, they can. If they want to kill themselves, they can. If they want to be addicted to prescription medications, they can. The number one selling pharmaceutical in the US with much higher addiction rates and far greater consequences are anti-depressants and Gaba drugs, not marijuana or cocaine or even heroin.

Yes, we can reasonably assume that legal licensed regulated monitored retailers will not sell these drugs to children. It will still be illegal to sell to children, same as it is today.

It's up to parents to make sure their kids don't use drugs. They won't be able to buy it from the legal industry. The amount distributed at any one time to a customer will be regulated by quantity so they won't have much to "sell" to children should they be so inclined and there'll be no profit in it for them. So it's going to be much more difficult for children to get their hands on these drugs than it is now. Hopefully parents will see the opportunity this affords them to better manage their own children and make sure they know where they are, what they're doing and who they're doing it with. That's the responsibility of parents, not society. If parents don't do a good job as some won't, then this program provides better education, free counseling, free medical care and free rehabilitation for the children. All the parent has to do is drive them to the center or if the child is old enough to get themselves there, then just walk in and they'll find a full-range of assistance and care.

TexasBorn, I know it's hard to come to grips with the reality of what can and can not be done. But no longer are careless parents who let their children run wild unattended to a reasonable excuse for making adults who for whatever reason what to smoke pot or snort cocaine or whatever into criminals and steal their liberty and destroy their lives and the lives of their family. Mind your own family, your own kids and let everyone else mind theirs. Then amongst the drug users who again for whatever reason choose to use can take care of themselves with the portion of the FairTaxes they alone pay to regulate the trade in a safe manner and seek free counseling, free medical care and free rehabilitation for anyone of them who wants or needs it. They alone paid for it, so it's theirs alone to use the services as they see fit or deem necessary.

The War on Drugs and what we do to our fellow citizens in the "name of the children" and "our bodies", is immoral, unChristian and unAmerican. The drug laws are unjust laws, TexasBorn, just like slavery laws were unjust laws, and born of evil. The War on Drugs set of drug laws exist to enrich prison owners and operators, lawyers, prosecutors, law enforcement, judges, politicians and businesses who serve these special interests. When a society has run so far amok that it thinks sending a 12 person armed SWAT TEAM into a private home to "look for marijuana growing in the home" and end up killing the occupant, it's time to ditch the laws that authorize such an evil racist absurdity in a free nation of free people.

Blacks are arrested and incarcerated 7 to 1 when they are only 12% of our population and use drugs at the same rates as whites, and less than whites in certain categories such as pregnant women.

The War on Drugs is a racist, evil, futile, pointless failure that benefits no one except the foreign cartels and their Paypals here in the states who profit from an underworld black market illegal drug trade managed with guns and violence instead of a legal industry regulated under a rule of law that society can abide.

Judy, it's great that you have passion, although misplaced in my opinion. Your idea of legalizing might make sense in a perfect world, with perfect parents, perfect schools, perfect regulations and perfect drug users. However, if there is only one bit of wisdom that I've managed to hang onto in all my years it's Murphy Law and the law of unintended consequences. Cities like "Amsterdamned" with it's needle park ignored Murphy and are painfully still in the throes of learning those "unintended consequences". There's a reason the U.S. became the greatest country on earth and it wasn't because we compromised our social values by allowing creeping liberalism to take hold.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

"...In fact, most drug users aren't doing anything at all that harms or damages anyone except themselves..."

Highly debatable. Family members, employers and friends might come to a different conclusion.

If we legalize/regulate/tax the illegal drug industry, then we can control the products, the sales, and use the taxes drug users pay to better education the public on the risk and consequences of using drugs and provide free rehabilitation for anyone who needs or wants it using no one's dimes but their own, which would be a vast improvement over the current situation.

Just exactly who is the "we" who would be doing the regulation? Government?? Let me sleep on that one after I've had a good laugh and an involuntary stomach purge

Prohibition drove alcohol sales underground and criminal. But people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. Prohibition was lifted, the trade was "regulated" but people still drank, got drunk, got arrested, committed crimes, killed people and destroyed families. See a pattern here?

Legalize drugs? Look to places like "Amsterdamned" to get some answers as to how this wonderful experiment has worked out. Sorry, that's not the kind of place I want to live and raise my kids and I think a majority of American families would agree with me.

Let's not kid ourselves by ignoring cause and effect. The effect on ordinary Americans will still be the same, regulated or not. The unintended consequences? Children will get the message that it must be ok since it's legal, just like booze. Judy, people are tired of the gradual and insidious encroachment on their moral and religious values and sometimes one has to draw a line in the sand and say no more.

The "we" would be government regulators much the way we regulate the pharmaceutical industry that regulates the production, distribution and sales of prescription medicines coupled with the way we regulate alcohol and tobacco products.

No one is killing anyone in the United States over buying or selling alcohol, and no neighborhood, school, apartment building, park, street corner or alley is under the siege of alcohol gangs controlled by criminal foreign alcohol cartels.

No one is encroaching on anyone's moral or religious values by legalizing, regulating and taxing the illegal drug trade and legalization won't impact children in a negative way at all. In fact, it will make drugs much harder for them to get and they'll be more educated about the risk and consequences before they use because part of the taxes collected will be used to do just that, and if they do get them, the drugs will be safer made with proper mixes so they don't accidentally overdose, and parents will have free counseling, medical care and rehabilitation to deal with it properly.

As to employers, employers can still drug test if they want to. Nothing in legalization will change an employers right to random drug tests. Although, a couple of years ago when I was doing research on this, there was a national OSHA study that shocked the researchers that showed no link between drug use and work-place accidents.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, TexasBorn. I don't understand why people are attracted to drugs, but the fact is a certain percentage of our population is, and the best moral and Christian thing we as a society can do, is ensure a legal safe American controlled-trade, that's regulated by quality, quantity and age, using a civil code of regulations instead of a criminal code. To me there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults, and that's assuming you didn't kill them in a drug raid before they even got their day in court. The War on Drugs is what's immoral and when you learn what is actually happening to these poor people because of the War on Drugs, I believe you'll agree with me.

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Judy, you missed two key points:

1. The effect of drugs on the human body will always be the same, illegal or not.

2. You have ignored the law of unintended consequences and this is where I believe that your arguments fly off into lala land. Too many opinions and speculation on what might/could/should happen in the event that drugs become legalized. There is a reason that there hasn't been a national outcry to legalize dangerous drugs...the common sense of everyday citizens. People instinctively know the dangers of opening pandora's box and how hard it is to close once the genie is out.

You say ..."there is nothing Christian or moral in sending someone to prison and totally ruining their lives because they used or sold drugs to consenting adults..."

There are two major flaws in this argument:

1. It isn't immoral to punish someone for breaking the law of the land. Without laws and the enforcement thereof, we have anarchy. Why should someone knowingly selling or possessing illegal drugs be given a pass?? Nonsensical in the extreme.

2. Also, how can one reasonably assume that someone won't sell a potentially deadly drug to children? Of course the answer is "we can't".

NO AMNESTY & NO DRUGS.

No, you don't understand. After legalization, the drugs will be legal, regulated, monitored, controlled. What people do to their own bodies is up to them, TexasBorn. We're a free nation of free people. If people want to eat themselves to death, they can. If they want to kill themselves, they can. If they want to be addicted to prescription medications, they can. The number one selling pharmaceutical in the US with much higher addiction rates and far greater consequences are anti-depressants and Gaba drugs, not marijuana or cocaine or even heroin.

Yes, we can reasonably assume that legal licensed regulated monitored retailers will not sell these drugs to children. It will still be illegal to sell to children, same as it is today.

It's up to parents to make sure their kids don't use drugs. They won't be able to buy it from the legal industry. The amount distributed at any one time to a customer will be regulated by quantity so they won't have much to "sell" to children should they be so inclined and there'll be no profit in it for them. So it's going to be much more difficult for children to get their hands on these drugs than it is now. Hopefully parents will see the opportunity this affords them to better manage their own children and make sure they know where they are, what they're doing and who they're doing it with. That's the responsibility of parents, not society. If parents don't do a good job as some won't, then this program provides better education, free counseling, free medical care and free rehabilitation for the children. All the parent has to do is drive them to the center or if the child is old enough to get themselves there, then just walk in and they'll find a full-range of assistance and care.

TexasBorn, I know it's hard to come to grips with the reality of what can and can not be done. But no longer are careless parents who let their children run wild unattended to a reasonable excuse for making adults who for whatever reason what to smoke pot or snort cocaine or whatever into criminals and steal their liberty and destroy their lives and the lives of their family. Mind your own family, your own kids and let everyone else mind theirs. Then amongst the drug users who again for whatever reason choose to use can take care of themselves with the portion of the FairTaxes they alone pay to regulate the trade in a safe manner and seek free counseling, free medical care and free rehabilitation for anyone of them who wants or needs it. They alone paid for it, so it's theirs alone to use the services as they see fit or deem necessary.

The War on Drugs and what we do to our fellow citizens in the "name of the children" and "our bodies", is immoral, unChristian and unAmerican. The drug laws are unjust laws, TexasBorn, just like slavery laws were unjust laws, and born of evil. The War on Drugs set of drug laws exist to enrich prison owners and operators, lawyers, prosecutors, law enforcement, judges, politicians and businesses who serve these special interests. When a society has run so far amok that it thinks sending a 12 person armed SWAT TEAM into a private home to "look for marijuana growing in the home" and end up killing the occupant, it's time to ditch the laws that authorize such an evil racist absurdity in a free nation of free people.

Blacks are arrested and incarcerated 7 to 1 when they are only 12% of our population and use drugs at the same rates as whites, and less than whites in certain categories such as pregnant women.

The War on Drugs is a racist, evil, futile, pointless failure that benefits no one except the foreign cartels and their Paypals here in the states who profit from an underworld black market illegal drug trade managed with guns and violence instead of a legal industry regulated under a rule of law that society can abide.