Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

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Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

For crying out loud, Madelyn Dunham did NOT call that birth announcement in to the paper.

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Madelyn Dunham MAY have called her grandson's birth announcement in to the paper. If Barack Obama II was not born in a hospital in Honolulu, she or her daughter almost certainly did call in his birth announcement.

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Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

That's not how birth announcement columns worked (back when they did them).

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Well, I'm certainly glad you verified that fact for us, since you were there in August of 1961, and you were cognizant of the procedures of each of the 12 hospitals for making official birth announcements in these two specific newspapers. / sarc /
Betsy Ross, I refuse to return friendly fire upon a co-worker, but you are provoking me to do so.

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Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

The paper clearly states that the origin of the information is the Health Department.

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The Honolulu Advertiser stated nothing of the kind. You are projecting your own wishful thinking upon the actual statements in the article and coming up with balderdash and horsefeathers.

The article did quote one former newspaper employee (in Hawaii, probably a Democrat), who said (not under oath) that, "years later," at some indeterminate point in time between 1961 and 2008, the Hawai'i Dept. of Health passed on to the two newspapers announcements of those births which took place in this specific (unnamed) hospital (one among twelve), a hospital which had a practice of deferring to the DOH on the announcing of births to inpatients.

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Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

That's who collected the information and submitted it for publication.

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That's possible, just as possible as that a parent or grandparent called in to the two newspapers an announcement of a birth which took place outside the one particular hospital in question, or even inside another hospital in Honolulu, or in Canada, or in Mombasa or Kogelo, Kenya.

Here is an image of the entire birth announcement column. It says, "Health Bureau Statistics." Not "births called in by random people."
http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/0 ... in-hawaii/

I was alive in the 50s and my memory of how this worked in the 60s is pretty good. People have to make TONS of assumptions to discredit Obama's birthright citizenship, very few to accept it.

[quote="grandmasmad"]OMG....I am praying the post above this one is correct.....I finally have a bit of hope......I am praying[/quote

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A sad note: I read somewhere that even if Washington asks Hawaii to present Obama's long form Hawaii birth certificate---the one with the doctor and birth hospital names on it---Hawaii may ignore the request, because Washington state law has no power in Hawaii.

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Originally Posted by grandmasmad

OMG....I am praying the post above this one is correct.....I finally have a bit of hope......I am praying

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At an Obama news conference, I wish an alert reporter would
simply ask Obama if his Indonesian citizen stepfather Soetoro ever legally adopted Obama.

It seems no one in the media wants to ask Obama such a question.

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Originally Posted by mirse

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Originally Posted by grandmasmad

OMG....I am praying the post above this one is correct.....I finally have a bit of hope......I am praying[/quote

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A sad note: I read somewhere that even if Washington asks Hawaii to present Obama's long form Hawaii birth certificate---the one with the doctor and birth hospital names on it---Hawaii may ignore the request, because Washington state law has no power in Hawaii.

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This may be true, but then under Washington State Law, the electors would have to withdraw their votes for him. The same with other states. IF this happens, congress would pretty well have to do something.

Betsy, I am just going to ask you one question. IF all of the allegations against Obama are false, WHY is he going to such extraordinary lengths to keep his cert and school records secret? Don't say because he can, or is afraid of ID theft or any other stupid answer that does not pass the "reasonable person" test.

It is customary for these things to be made public. I am sure Bush and Gore would be happier if we all didn't find out that they were barely "C" students.

Well, for starters, his records are automatically secret for the same reason yours and mine are: laws such as FERPA and HIPAA and so on. Why hasn't he released them? I don't know but I have a theory: he is acting on the advice of an attorney. He has probably been told that he has released plenty to prove any point that needs to be made (and if the birth cert is genuine, he has), and been told to stand pat.

If he really was born in Hawaii, what does that do to all these arguments people like Berg, Donofrio, etc., are raising? Some have suggested that he is giving them enough rope .... I find it odd that Berg was a Hillary supporter, and wondered if anyone in that campaign organization was cheering him on.

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Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

Well, for starters, his records are automatically secret for the same reason yours and mine are: laws such as FERPA and HIPAA and so on. Why hasn't he released them? I don't know but I have a theory: he is acting on the advice of an attorney. He has probably been told that he has released plenty to prove any point that needs to be made (and if the birth cert is genuine, he has), and been told to stand pat.

If he really was born in Hawaii, what does that do to all these arguments people like Berg, Donofrio, etc., are raising? Some have suggested that he is giving them enough rope .... I find it odd that Berg was a Hillary supporter, and wondered if anyone in that campaign organization was cheering him on.

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IF he had been the first candidate or president elect to have been asked to release these records, I would fully agree with your first paragraph. However, every candidate as far back as I can remember has been asked, and has complied with at least releasing their college records. Even humiliating records like a c- average. Therefore IF your theory is correct, and Obama has nothing more damning than horrible grades, nothing that would disqualify him for the office in which he has been elected, how come he has his college records sealed? Maybe if he was a d- student with a record of behavioral problems, I could see him wanting to keep that hidden until after the election, but now? The only reason an attorney would advise his client to break from the norm is if there was something his client needed protecting from.


The only other candidate in my lifetime to be questioned about his citizenship was McCain. I am no fan of his either, but when the questions came up, he immediately handed over certified long copies of all documentation to be examined by experts. He did not post a third rate copy on the internet, but allowed the original copy to be opened up for public and legal scrutiny.

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If he really was born in Hawaii, what does that do to all these arguments people like Berg, Donofrio, etc., are raising?

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IF he was really born in Hawaii, the first part of Bergs, and many of the other suits would be a slam dunk win for Obama. However, the majority of the suits are hinging on a couple of Supreme Court cases from the 1800's and the federalist papers. In these cases it was determined that in order to be a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN, either both parents or the father had to be a US citizen. According the the debates in the Federalist Papers, the intent of that clause was to prevent anyone who was not 100% American from holding the office, thus Obama's duel citizenship at birth automatically made him ineligible. ALSO If the allegations are true that Obamas mama did indeed give up her citizenship, and Obama was indeed adopted by his stepdad, it could have resulted in his loss of citizenship. When a child is adopted by an American couple who had been born in a foreign nation, they automatically trade the citizenship of their birth for citizenship in the US. The same is true in some adoptions of US children in foreign nations. Particularly a nation that forbade duel citizenship. IF Berg and others do indeed have the evidence they claim to have regarding this alleged adoption, it too could render him ineligible. IF Obama's mama merely married an Indonesian and simply brought her son to live with them, that would be a completely different legal circumstance. There is also the question about his alleged use of an Indonesian passport to go to Pakistan in 1981. Since this country was off limits at the time to Americans, it is almost a given he did not visit under a US passport.

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I find it odd that Berg was a Hillary supporter, and wondered if anyone in that campaign organization was cheering him on.

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LOL Now this is the one issue I do not find odd in the least. I would not be surprised if Bill and Hill provided Berg with most of his information and evidence. Of course they were cheering him on, they probably orchestrated the whole thing.

I understand that there are a number of cases yet to go for the Supreme Court. I don't hold out much hope for those who are questioning Obama at this point. But, they are within their rights to ask questions.

Also, there are only two jobs that I know of in the US that require natural born citizenship. Are people saying that the family had presidential aspirations for him back then? If not, these theories claim that they went to a lot of trouble.

Only people with something to hide do so.