Thanks, W. Yes, we want liberty for all people, but not necessarily in this country. :twisted:
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Thanks, W. Yes, we want liberty for all people, but not necessarily in this country. :twisted:
After seeing the video all I can say is ,
On the issue of illegal immigration Dick Armey appears to be an open border traitor.
IMHO
I was pretty shocked by this video as well, but I want to wait and see what others think.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe2
W
Thanks so much for that link. I come from a family of Marines. I will pass the word on it also. I usually call LaborReady when I need some part time labor help. I will remember this for the future and tell others.Quote:
Originally Posted by kmhappel
I need to find my headphones to hear it as the sound is too low for me to hear it right now. I have a feeling that I will be disgusted with it, but I'll wait until I can hear it to pass judgment. :roll:
First of all Dick Armey is not the organizer and has no connection with anything any 912 group I know of does. I have organized tea parties and rallys for the 912 including the one on Aug 1st in Columbus, Ohio that gained national attention and was featured on Glenn Beck and Beck nor Armey were involved at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
The only reason Beck took any notice was because Judge Napolitano was our keynote speaker and we had 10,000 people show up.
I have worked with 912 and TEA Party organizations in 12 states and have never heard Armey's name metioned nor have I ever seen a dime of funding for our rallys and tea parties come from anyone other then members of the grassroots organizations involved. I know Freedom Works is the organization that took care of obtaining permits and did the ground work for the March on DC, but if it were not for the pure grassroots it would not happen!
So I guess we just throw the baby out with the bath water?
Truthdig - Reports - Armey's Tea Party Army
2009/04/16 - At the apex of the tea party movement is FreedomWorks, headed by former Rep. Dick Armey. His past career should be instructive to any ...
www.truthdig.com/report/.../20090415_obamas_cup_of_tea/ - Cached - Similar
Jane Hamsher:
The Corporate Lobbyists Behind the Tea Parties - FreedomWorks
is run by ladies' man (and registered lobbyist) Dick Armey, and if they're not "organizing" the Tea parties, it's news to him. ...
www.huffingtonpost.com/.../the-corporat ... 86367.html - Cached - Similar
FreedomWorks | Lower Taxes, Less Government, More FreedomConservatives Plan New Round of Tea Parties. August 18, 2009. Wall Street Journal ... Dick Armey Joins Sean Hannity's Great American Panel ...
www.freedomworks.org/ - Cached - Similar
The Tea Party Movement: Who's In Charge?
- The Atlantic Politics ...Apr 13, 2009 ... Here is the organizational landscape of the April 15 tea party .... phony "grass-roots" organizations led by Dick Armey and fauxnews tells ...
politics.theatlantic.com/.../the_tea_party_movement_whos_in_charge.php - Cached - Similar
Huckabee Talks to ABC News About the Tea Parties: Dick Armey "Owes ...Huckabee Talks to ABC News About the Tea Parties: Dick Armey "Owes Me a Big Apology". April 15, 2009 11:21 AM. "The tea parties are mostly an honest ...
blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2009/.../huckabee-talks.html - Cached - Similar
Tennessee Guerilla Women: Dick Armey, Tea Party Organizer
Apr 13, 2009 ... promoting the grassroots (heh) tea parties. The Dark Side's Dick Armey -- former GOP House Majority Leader, author of the Contract ON ...
guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/.../dick-armey-tea-party-organizer.html - Cached - Similar
Firedoglake » FreedomWorks Lobbyist Dick Armey Takes Credit for ...Apr 13, 2009 ... 71 Responses to[b] “FreedomWorks Lobbyist Dick Armey Takes Credit for Organizing Tea Partiesâ€
W. The 912 people were planning to go to DC long before Dick was involved.
If you would like to discuss this you have access to my profile info. Call me or email me.
I am a bit upset by your obvious attempt to discredit the efforts of such a pure grassroots movement!
In response to the Dick Armey video.
He clearly states that illegals just come here to feed their babies, bless their hearts. That tells me that it's okay with him because they are just doing what any mother or father would do. We all know that is not their grand plan! I guess he thinks people are really stupid. Well his voting record speaks volumes.
IMHO the main focus of what has caused this country to be in the crisis we now find ourselves in needs to be illegal immigration. That is the root cause of it all. And until we end illegal immigration things will only get worse. We don't need anymore forgien workers, we have too many now.
I say send some of them home as well. We have plenty of Americans that are out of work that are just as qualified if not more. So I don't buy the lame excuse that Americans are not as skilled as foreign workers. I see so many road projects that every visible worker is foreign. The majority of them appear to be hispanic or some other South American. I do not believe for one minute that they are all in this country legally. Not by a long shot! But what do you do? Who do you ask? How do you find out if they are taking jobs that Americans need? It makes me angry because I know how serious the problems we face as a nation are, and I see no end in sight. I know how negative I sound, but we are in a crisis like I have not seen in my lifetime.
So in a nut shell, William I totally get why ALIPAC will not be in DC on 9/12 and you have my full support on this one! Let focus our energy on another day and may it be FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!!!
I will also keep that website in mind. I know some business owners that could use some help from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinky
Armey: We're Marching on Washington Against Obamacare
NewsMax ^ | 8/18/09 | Rick Pedraza
Posted on Tuesday, August 18, 2009 11:49:36 AM by Sammy67
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey is organizing a march on Washington against the Obama administration’s healthcare plan that he hopes will finally finish off the Democratic push for socialized medicine.
The march, organized by Armey’s political group FreedomWorks, is scheduled for Sept. 12 and is already generating hundreds of thousands of responses, the Texas Republican tells Newsmax.TV. The group is isn’t providing transportation, but that doesn’t seem to be a problem.
See Video: Fomer House Majority Leader Dick Armey talks about the movement to defeat Obamacare
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2318856/posts
I've heard his name coming up a lot concerning this march. So, to say he is not involved is not true unless someone has got it wrong.
No babies out with the bath water, but you need to check on the Dick Armey information. Freedomworks is running this show on 9/12 in DC. Here is their main site...Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw120556
http://912dc.org/
W
Oh give me a break. That is ludicrous. When Open Borders GOPers do things we are supposed to inform people.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw120556
If you even bothered to listen to my recent statements in print and on video and remember them or you listened at all you would know I believe in this pure grass roots movement.
The problem is not with the grass roots. It's with the DC insider corporate lobbyists.
W
http://912dc.org/
Just click on the link above for lots of info.
I dont believe the pro-amnesty open border traiterous shmucks would get much of a warm fuzzy welcome at an event such as 9/12 .
Could be a blessing .
Americans are in no mood for their agenda . EVER .......
How dare them stink up such an event . 9/12 is a day to celebrate America .
I hope they get a big ole can of American whoop Ass .
The letter was very concise and clear to me. Those following the letter were very confusing. What is not to understand? There is nothing to read into it, it is very straight forward about why Alipac will not be attending. Apparently someone thought that Glen Beck was slighted by all of this. I am not sure that he was or was not, its a moot question! Maybe I was not reading it right???
I'll say it again....there are 2 issues of concern:
1. It's your choice of words that caused most of the outrage:
"...we know Glenn Beck is against Amnesty. Or at least he was over the last few years."
The words obviously have a sarcastic past tense implication, unfair to Glenn Beck.
"...Some 9/12 Groups are Open Borders"
The implication here is obvious. You can find bad apples in just about any group, some of them intentionally planted, but that does not justify labeling the entire group as bad. I look forward to finding out which 912 "groups" are open borders advocates. It's simply not part of the 912 mission statement.
2. Your (our) cause needs all the supporters it can get, and no amount of emotion should be allowed to result in burning bridges to potential supporters. Your timing to release your "research" right before the 9/12 March is a poor decision. Again, you would be punishing a large body of valuable activists by unduly insulting them and painting them with a broad negative brush, and all parties will lose to negative publicity. ALIPAC needs the millions of 912 supporters on their side, and whatever Dick Armey and Freedomworks does is irrelevant in this argument against 912. And Dick Armey is just Dick Armey. I'm not even sure he is a proper representative for all that Freedomworks believes in.
I see Freedomworks as a conservative group that seized an opportunity to assist The912Project with their march, and grassroots citizens of The912Project willing to accept the help, likely not knowing about or even thinking about, what Dick Armey has to say about illegal immigration. If any part of his pro-amnesty views should bleed into the upcoming march, his butt would be kicked to kingdom come, and he would have no place again in any 912 event.
Full disclosure: I am a Tea Party coordinator, a committee member and supporter of multiple 912 groups, a GOP member, a Townhall activist, and a member of many other similar groups and causes. Believe it or not, I even support Freedomworks, but Dick Armey is not my master, and I hold no allegiance to him.
DON'T MAKE ANY DECISIONS YOU WILL REGRET. I DON'T WANT TO BE ON THE GIVING END, OR THE RECEIVING END OF UNFAIR CRITICISM.
I am not saying Dick Armney is not involved in the march on DC, I am saying he has nothing to do with the 912 organizations.
Go to http://www.meetup.com/The-Columbus-Ohio ... tup-Group/
Or www.ohiolibertycouncil.org
You will not see Dick's name anywere nor will you see anything pro-amnesty.
I know that everyone is expressing their point of view here. But I'm saddened by some of these posts because I see a division developing among us. I think the 912 folks have their own reasons for participating in their group. Healthcare is in the forefront right now. BUT, I do believe that when the time comes to fight AMNESTY, the 912'ers who support our cause will stand with us and our fight will be front and center. United we stand, divided we fall right?
I am not going to shy away from telling people the truth out of any fear of crtiticism by those that want more people in DC no matter what.Quote:
Originally Posted by pacificrk
Illegal immigration should be present as an issue in the march and it is not. The not so funny thing is that is exactly what the Open Borders Lobby wants for the next year going into the elections.
I am not going to let that happen if I can help it.
The information that has been gathered on this has mostly come to us over the last week.
If you or anyone else wants to make the claim that it is 'wrong' for us to release it at this time or any time, go right ahead.
If there are 9/12 supporters that would no longer support ALIPAC or would not consider supporting ALIPAC because we point out that Dick Armey and Freedomworks (The Primary Organizers of the 9/12 DC events) are pro Amnesty then fine.
Gee, illegal immigration has been sanitized from these events and no immigration enforcement leader or speaker has been invited to participate and the whole show is being organized by Open Borders advocates.
Do you think there is a relationship?
And how dare you make the claim that all of those fine 9/12 patriots should march into DC and be kept in the dark about this?
Many of the 9/12 participant would be disturbed to know this information, but that does not mean they should not know this information.
W
That is one of the points we need to make bmw120556.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw120556
Whereas our earlier view was that the 9/12 movement, which we have encouraged our supporters to check out and consider joining, was an independent movement encouraged by Glenn Beck, now well financed open borders and amnesty supporting DC insiders are working hard to co-opt the 9/12 movement.
They are stacking the deck with pro Amnesty groups while excluding groups against Amnesty.
What do you think their advise and counsel for Glenn Beck and those they gather contact info for will be?
W
Bring on the facts , The facts are what empower those that lead . And motivate those that act .
As long as the i is dotted and the t is crossed , why would any of you fear the Facts .
Our case against Illegal Immigration is based on Fact . Not freakin emotion , fear , or Drama .
I am member of ALIPAC and TeaParty and gosh, I can't see
what all the big ruckus is about. Its all kinda silly.
I thought that first notification was fine.
Hey, our agendas dont all mesh together perfectly but in many ways
they do overlap. Perhaps we should worry about ALIPAC's functions
independantly anyway. I think I will contact my fellow TP members
send a note to Glenn Beck for him not to get his panties in a wad.
We are on their side...America's side. Of course it would be better
if we could pool together collectively like the Open Boarders groups
have done. Strength in numbers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
Honest reaction off the top.
The OPPOSITION to the Tea Party movement has singled out Dick Armey and Freedom Works, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, FOX news, etc. and has critiqued the movement as being supported by the "extreme" right wing, and as not being non-partisan and as not being an actual grass-roots movement, and labeled it an astroturf phenomenon. They have used Dick Armey as a prime example of these supposed attributes. He is a target of opportunity for criticism by the opposition.
If I was not objective, and I didn't know better, I would have to assume that your statements were from the opposition to the movement. That is exactly what it SOUNDS like, although I know that not to be true, and not your intention.
Perception is very important to the multitudes of people in this country who do not read between the lines, who do not seek to understand the root of problems, who are easily mislead, and are impressionable.
And vote their hearts and not their minds.
You already know these things.
Labeling, categorizing, and stereotyping are methodologies.
Agendas are behind methodologies.
Again, this situation is a slippery slope in various emerging movements and causes, or those that have been around awhile.
A couple of questions:
Is ALIPAC pro-war or anti-war?
Is the 9/12 movement environmentalist or anti-environmentalist?
Is ALIPAC pro-global warming or anti-global warming?
I hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnDoe2
I don't know that I would indicate Newsmax as a credible source, necessarily. On the other hand, you might want to read the long list of comments attached to your link.
They might just be more eye-opening, if you are looking past the headlines, that is.
"Quote"
A couple of questions:
Is ALIPAC pro-war or anti-war?
Is the 9/12 movement environmentalist or anti-environmentalist?
Is ALIPAC pro-global warming or anti-global warming?"
These questions are irrelevant. We are focused on 1 thing here at ALIPAC;
illegal immigration, and any way that it might impact our country.
The other issues you mention are exactly that, other issues.
In case anyone hear has not been able to get updates on the Tea Party movement, as well as the Tea Party express, here are some related websites.
http://teapartypatriots.org/
http://www.californiateapartypatriots.com/index.htm
http://www.teapartyexpress.org/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
So, what you are saying is that ALIPAC should not get itself involved in other issues, or other movements?
Such as the March on Washington on 9/12?
Just watched it again, and I don't appreciate being called harsh
because I feel as if we Americans have been harshly, and
knowingly, invaded from the inside out, and our generosity has
been taken advantage of for way too many decades now.
I never have trusted Armey. Let him speak, he will probably
shoot himself in the foot and a backfire effect might be a good
thing. Regardless, I still respect Glenn Beck and will continue to
do so unless proven I should otherwise beyond a shadow of a doubt.
In my very humble opinion, I think ALIPAC should simply organize
our own rallys, and try it's best to not step on the toes of
other groups with similiar but not identical agendas.
Hey, we need some rich guys to sponsor ALIPAC funtions.
Rich People...where are you??
IMHO, yes. We should stay focused. Unless, there is aQuote:
Originally Posted by navigeur
total integration and cooperation of purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
I think we are on the same conceptual page.
There is a slippery slope out there. Politics makes for strange bedfellows,
at times, not that that is an excuse. I am all for knowledge, truth, and
detail, don't get me wrong.
I just wouldn't want ALIPAC to
become categorized as being in opposition to the Tea Party movement.
With media and others looking for any crack in the fabric that might happen.
I just don't see that being productive to either movement.
I agree that there should be a strictly anti-illegal immigration and anti-amnesty rally at some point. I'm not really sure why this hasn't already happened, but I know there's been some internal fracturing in our movement, particularly here in Southern California, which hasn't helped. I don't know that we necessarily need rich people though. After all, the tea party goers don't seem particularly rich as a group, just regular Americans dedicated to a cause.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt
As I said before. I think what William has said has been completely misinterpreted. He has stated that there are certain individuals in the Tea Party/9-12 Movement that are amnesty sympathizers. What is wrong with bringing those facts out into the open? Are we supposed to keep our mouths shut and act PC because so many are involved in the Tea Party movement? Like I stated before how can you be pro amnesty and a Tea Party Patriot? That's an oxymoron or it's someone who is uninformed if they think illegal invaders do not cost us more of our hard earned dollars.Quote:
Originally Posted by navigeur
If the Tea Party movement is going to be run by the likes of Dick Armey and Grover Norquist like these 9/12 marches are then you can put ALIPAC down as opposition gladly.Quote:
Originally Posted by navigeur
ALIPAC has supported the Tea Party movement and supported the 9/12 movement up until now.
Now we discover that Open Borders DC insiders are moving to take control of the 9/12 movement and you are going to growl at us for saying anything.
Let me make this abundantly clear. Anyone that is going to take up for or support Open Borders and Amnesty in the US or the groups and leaders pushing Open Borders and Amnesty is our opposition.
We are still collecting information on what is happening here and perhaps when we are done ALIPAC may be OUT of the Tea Parties and 9/12 movement.
Or the Open Borders traitors to the Constitution and the people of the United States may be the ones OUT of the movement.
William Gheen
www.alipac.us
I really appreciate your researching and clarifying this, William. Can't say I'm happy about it, but it's always better to know the truth.
(1) As I said before. I think what William has said has been completely misinterpreted.
(2) He has stated that there are certain individuals in the Tea Party/9-12 Movement that are amnesty sympathizers.
(3) What is wrong with bringing those facts out into the open?
(4) Are we supposed to keep our mouths shut and act PC because so many are involved in the Tea Party movement?
(5) Like I stated before how can you be pro amnesty and a Tea Party Patriot?
(6) That's an oxymoron or it's someone who is uninformed if they think illegal invaders do not cost us more of our hard earned dollars.[/quote]
(1) Thus, you must agree that misinterpretations are counter productive.
How, then, do you feel about misinterpretations of ALIPAC and the Tea Party movements? Especially from ALIPACs opposition, or from the Tea Parties' opposition? Doesn't the opposition also misinterpret?
Does it take up time when other situations could be more productive?
(2) OK, good to know, but it may be "off topic" for many.
The fact that amnesty/immigration issues should be part of a larger picture may not be the fault of the Tea Party movement, which is, in itself part of a larger picture. It may be the fault of ALIPAC. Seems ALIPAC may be pointing fingers. I count 30 "sponsors" of 9/12. Who is to say?
Ironically, for me, anyway, Campaign for Liberty has joined. Ron Paul is on board with this. I know vigorous anti-Tea Party folks who are pro Ron Paul.
Should ALIPAC not want to join? That is up to ALIPAC. I'm a party to both movements, and I'm not on different "sides".
(3) Nothing is wrong in bringing any facts out anywhere. Perhaps research could be done on ALIPAC and that could lead to opposition to ALIPAC, for example, which has already happened. I've read about these scenarios right on these very pages. That may very well be productive, and divisive, at the same time. Or they could be un-productive.
(4) Neither ALIPAC nor the Tea Party movements are known for keeping their mouths shut. Nor are the Town Halls. Nor are millions of Americans, especially now. There is a movement on to shut them up, though.
Hopefully, you don't want others with varying perspectives to "shut up".
(5) Maybe a good question. However, you are potentially merging two different perspectives. If you are going to exclude one from another, then you might be apt to exclude others, such as anti-war, or pro-war, or anti-global warming, or pro-global warming, or pro-healthcare, or anti-healthcare reform.
I was just told that these were irrelevant to ALIPAC. Maybe ALIPAC is irrelevant to the anti-tax movement, but now you would differ with me, is that not correct?
Americans are not known for agreeing on everything. How do you deal with those complexities?
(6) Attempting to label people as "uniformed" sounds exactly like what the opposition to ALIPAC says.
BTW, I'm firmly against illegal immigration and pro-Tea Parties, Tea Party Express, and pro California Tea Parties.
I think I will stay that way.
navigeur, you are missing the point. The pro immigration enforcement groups and leaders like ALIPAC are the ones being EXCLUDED here by the new leadership of the Tea Party / 9/12 DC events and movement that are corporate libertarians.
Get it?
Check out how people are responding to the head man in charge of the 9/12 rallies over at youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaqd1qY1KsM
We are looking into each group sponsoring. There are many more just like Dick Armey. Looks like the deck is stacked one way.
W
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALIPAC
I rarely get convinced of anything with solely a two year old youtube link and a couple of stray hyperlinks to potentially dubious sources. You'll have to do much, much better than that, with me. The same could be said for yourself, I am sure. I've seen enough of you to know that. Don't underestimate your supporters.
You've stated your evolving case, and some details, and I respect that. I even agree with digging below the surface to find out who is behind causes and what their agenda is. I do that myself. It does take time and effort, and you have mentioned that you are not done with your research.
You are letting your cat out of the bag, slowly, and I can understand why.
Events are unfolding faster than you can do your research.
I would also say that I would even trust your findings, whatever they may be, knowing your attention to detail and focus on issues.
That having been said, I support the ALIPAC perspective, totally, AND the Tea Party movement.
You are not going to force me to choose sides.
I read all four pages of the discussion here and I am saddened to see that there is division arising among us. I am a born-again Christian and I believe in the enemy of our souls. ALIPAC is doing good work and has a single goal, IMHO, and that is for our nation to close its borders and once again, only allow legal immigration. I am also a TEA Party member and activist. I don't think we are mutually exclusive at all. However, we must be wise and keep our eyes open because any time a group has a righteous goal, there will be those from the other side (the enemy of our soul, I think) that will try to infiltrate it and dilute the groups' mission. Don't let your goal here get the TEA Party's goal get side-tracked or vice-versa. I believe as someone said here that a TEA Party member couldn't seriously be pro open borders! That is one of the reasons our taxes are so high, especially here in CA!!
Just pay attention to those who say they are leaders of the TEA Party movement...they can't help but reveal their positions on various issues and if you hear (or read) a leader promote open borders, call him/her on it!! I am so frustrated that the media has portrayed as wacko Republicans or far-right extremists. All sides are represented in the TEA Party movement so far as agreeing that taxes are too high!!! We have Democrats, Republicans, Independents among us so don't pigeon-hole us. Yeah, I know I am preaching to the choir on that one.
Stay focused and don't let anyone, especially any leader, get our goals side-tracked!