Thread: Oh Dear. The Catholic Church Needs More Lawyers !!

As we were saying the other day, the Catholic Church has run a lot of Americans out of the pews, because of the incomprehensible acts of child abuse by predator priests. Many Americans have joined other churches and religions. They have needed a lot of money to pay for lawyers and settlements regarding this. It could explain their illegitimate reason why they are interfering in U.S. governmental affairs in pushing for Amnesty. They need to fill those pews back up. They want the money.

Well, looks like they're going to need to pay for some more lawyers !! Are we, as Americans going to allow the Catholic Church to dictate the law to the American people.....I don't think so !!

Please note: I am not attacking all Catholics, I am Catholic myself. But throughout history, Catholics have often followed the Catholic Church and the Priests blindly. God wants us to be good people and good Catholics, but he expects us to turn away from wrong-doing no matter where it happens. He wants people to respect each other, and it starts by respecting the laws of each other's countries.

Please do not buy into this latest Catholic attempt to scam not only Catholics, but all of the American people. The Catholic Church will keep telling the American people how we will run our country until WE put our foot down and say "No".

Police: Two Delray priests spent stolen $8.6 million on girlfriends, gambling, property


Pair accused of leading secret lives using money taken from collection plates

By Jerome Burdi and Mike Clary
South Florida Sun-Sentinel
Posted September 29 2006


Delray Beach -- In a bold scheme carried out over decades, two respected priests are accused of stealing more than $8.6 million in cash from the collection plates at St. Vincent Ferrer Catholic Church to bankroll lavish secret lives that included steady girlfriends, investments in property in Florida and Ireland and gambling junkets to casinos in Las Vegas and the Bahamas.

Arrested on a grand-theft charge was retired Monsignor John A. Skehan, 79, who was pastor at St. Vincent for more than 40 years. He was picked up at Palm Beach International Airport on Wednesday night after returning from Ireland.

"He was very remorseful," Delray Beach Detective Thomas Whatley said. Skehan was in the Palm Beach County jail Thursday in lieu of $400,000 bond.

His successor at the Delray Beach church, the Rev. Francis B. Guinan, is being sought on a similar grand-theft charge. Police said Thursday that they suspected Guinan, 63, may have fled the country.

With about 3,000 parishioners, St. Vincent is one of the area's largest and oldest parishes, and is home to a who's who of powerful politicians and business leaders. "I am shocked," said Palm Beach County Commissioner Mary McCarty, whose husband, Kevin, is chairman of the South Florida Water Management District. "[Skehan] married us 26 years ago."

As parishioners gathered for 5 p.m. Mass on Thursday at St. Vincent, many expressed disbelief. "Skehan was the epitome of priesthood," said June Hefti, tears welling in her eyes. "It is incredible."

In a probable-cause affidavit issued by Delray Beach police, Skehan and Guinan are accused of skimming cash from weekly church collections to feed a series of "slush funds" that allowed them to give generous payments to women, invest in real estate and travel to their native Ireland and U.S. resort destinations.

Skehan, police allege, used collection-plate funds donated to the church on George Bush Boulevard to pay for a Palm Beach County condominium, a $275,000 coin collection, a cottage on Ireland's scenic Cliffs of Moher and a pub in his hometown of Kilkenny.

He made regular cash payments to a woman, described in the affidavit as a "girlfriend," who once worked for him when he was assigned to a church in Hallandale Beach.

During the summers when other priests were away, one former church employee told police, Skehan "would hide cash from offertories in the ceiling" of his condo, a 16th-floor unit in the oceanfront Connemara on Singer Island.

Guinan, who was a pastor at St. Patrick's Church in Palm Beach Gardens before succeeding Skehan at St. Vincent in September 2003, was described in the affidavit as a gambler who frequented casinos in Las Vegas and the Bahamas.

He used church funds to pay for $15,000 worth of dental work, and made cash payments to his "girlfriend," a former St. Patrick's bookkeeper, according to the affidavit. He wrote checks totaling $7,270 to pay tuition for his girlfriend's son at Cardinal Newman High School in West Palm Beach.

Known for his lavish lifestyle, Guinan also has a reputation as a partier, church employees and parishioners told investigators. In 2004 he was charged with driving under the influence, records show.

Public records show he owns several properties, including a home in Port St. Lucie and a Juno Beach condo.

The charges of grand theft lodged against the two priests are the latest in a series of scandals that have shaken the Palm Beach Diocese over the past few years, the most serious of which involved allegations of sexual abuse that led to the resignations of two bishops.

In a news conference Thursday, Bishop Gerald M. Barbarito -- named to the post in 2003 with a mandate to bring calm to the diocese -- said the charges against Skehan and Guinan "give rise to grave concern and possible feelings of betrayal and anger."

The diocese, which includes Palm Beach and four other counties to the north, is home to more than 250,000 Catholics.

He said both men had been placed on administrative leave and suspended from priestly duties.

Attorney Ken Johnson, representing Skehan, told The Associated Press that police had exaggerated the alleged theft. "My reading of the probable-cause affidavit indicates that the amount of money he's actually accused of misappropriating amounts to about $325,000, which is a far cry from $8.6 million," he said.

The investigation into the church finances dates to September 2003, when Skehan retired and Guinan was named to replace him. According to diocesan financial administrator Denis Hamel, Guinan, along with a St. Vincent bookkeeper identified as the priest's girlfriend, tried to block a routine audit done to coincide with the change in leadership.

Both priests, Irish-born and friends for about 30 years, are accused of directing staffers to make bank deposits in amounts of less than $10,000 to avoid notice and detection. Former bookkeepers described to police a scheme in which the priests often set up new bank accounts or wrote checks for non-existent construction projections to cover up their thefts.

Although Skehan retired as pastor of St. Vincent three years ago, he continued to have access to church accounts until January, police said.

Guinan resigned as pastor at St. Vincent in September 2005 as the diocese was trying to remove him, according to diocese spokeswoman Alexis Walkenstein. "Our internal investigation merged with the criminal investigation," she said. "We were on top of this in advance of the criminal investigation. We were conducting a careful, serious probe."

Jerome Burdi can be reached at jjburdi@sun-sentinel.com or 561-243-6531. Mike Clary can be reached at mwclary@sun-sentinel or at 561-243-6629.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/ ... -headlines

I agree LegalUSCitizen!

I'm Catholic too, and I agree I am ashamed of these priests and the shame they have brought to our church!

I know many Catholic and most likely 90 percent of catholics are against illegal immigration and comprehensive immigration! It's an injustice to the American people plain and simple!

They should preach about the evils of Mexico and call out their government to take care of their people instead of telling them to break into our country illegally and steal hundreds of billions of dollars and jobs, lives ect.. from Americans! Where is their outcry for the injustice that we have had to endure!!!

Pat Buchanon is Catholic and agrees as well!

The Catholic church needs to clean house and stop playing politics in America!! Play them in Mexico and South America were it's needed!!

As a Catholic myself, learning about this type of behavior by priests who are supposed to be setting an example is very disheartening and upsets me. However, there are clergy of other denominations who have been caught in compromising positions and have cheated their followers. I need not name names here. Priests and ministers are only human, and as such are susceptible to human error and sin. I am not excusing bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior, only saying that it is not exclusive to Catholics. Nor is organized religious support for illegal aliens exclusive to the Catholic church.

I am more concerned by how the LEADERSHIP of the Church handles these cases. That is what was so upsetting about the priest child abuse cases. Not only that priests would abuse their power and trust in this way, but that the LEADERSHIP of the church was aware of this and covered it up by moving these priests from parish to parish and diocese to diocese. I look at what is Church POLICY as regards issues of importance.

As regards the immigration issue, I am incensed that the leadership of the church has chosen to back the illegals instead of the rule of law. I could go on and on about this subject as it is one of my pet peeves. There are two main reasons I am angered by their position. The first is that all of their sympathy and support goes towards the illegals. There seems to be no thought whatsoever, let alone sympathy or support, for those poor or working class Americans who have seen their lives destroyed by illegals. No sympathy for those who have lost their jobs, or been victims of violent crimes by illegals. They seem to totally ignore the negative consequences that illegal immigration has on a community. And second is their blatant disregard for the rule of law in our country. They continue to compare our immigration laws with unjust laws such as the Jim Crow laws, etc. They encourage "civil disobedience" in enforcing these laws. This is just contrary to what I was always taught: to obey a just law is moral. I, also, feel that their position is prompted by ulterior motives; such as, boosting their membership and donations into their collection plates. It truly does pain me to have to feel this way.

I am really fired up about this subject because recently I have been reading through the 2003 document issued by the Mexican and US bishops, entitled, "Strangers No Longer" which is the blueprint for their current position on illegal immigration. I take medicine for LOW blood pressure, but I think I might have to switch to one which lowers it now!!
This is the most infuriating bunch of horse puckey I have ever read. For anyone who is interested: http://www.nccbuscc.org/mrs/stranger.shtml

Looks interesting. I have read a little but there is a lot of info.
I had never heard of any of this. Has anyone else heard of it?

http://www.chick.com/reading/comics/0112/indefense.asp

Was Alberto Really Who He Claimed To Be?

As soon as Alberto Rivera went public with his testimony, the Roman Catholic Church began its damage-control operation. Alberto knew too much! Having been prepared for leadership in the Jesuit order, he had been briefed on things too sensitive to put in writing. Now he was telling the world!

Alberto was immediately denounced as having never been a priest, even though he possessed clear documentation. Christianity Today printed an article written by Gary Metz, attacking Alberto and accusing him of all sorts of things. Alberto refused to spend his life arguing with his accusers. Instead, he just pushed on, preaching the gospel, and trusting God to defend him.

The Lord raised up other Christians who examined the charges against Alberto, and found him to be exactly what he claimed to be. Below is an abundance of evidence. Read it for yourself.

Went to Catholic School, Used to give money every month. Not any more. I have not stepped foot in the church since our priest made the statement about illegal's should have rights and be allowed to stay. I am done. I can pray in my own home and teach my son myself. The icing on the cake was the pope apologizing to Muslims when they had just made his point. I will not support the church any longer.

1.Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)
"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."
Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.
Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens
It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work. Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified. It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verfication of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor. The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.
An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.
Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.
IT IS ILLEGAL FOR NONPROFIT OR RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, REGARDLESS OF CLAIMS THAT THEIR CONVICTIONS REQUIRE THEM TO ASSIST ALIENS. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.
Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens
It is a violation of law for any person to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection in any place, including any building or means of transportation, any alien who is in the United States in violation of law. HARBORING MEANS ANY CONDUCT THAT TENDS TO SUBSTANTIALLY FACILITATE AN ALIEN TO REMAIN IN THE U.S. ILLEGALLY. The sheltering need not be clandestine, and harboring covers aliens arrested outdoors, as well as in a building. This provision includes harboring an alien who entered the U.S. legally but has since lost his legal status.
An employer can be convicted of the felony of harboring illegal aliens who are his employees if he takes actions in reckless disregard of their illegal status, such as ordering them to obtain false documents, altering records, obstructing INS inspections, or taking other actions that facilitate the alien's illegal employment. Any person who within any 12-month period hires ten or more individuals with actual knowledge that they are illegal aliens or unauthorized workers is guilty of felony harboring. It is also a felony to encourage or induce an alien to come to or reside in the U.S. knowing or recklessly disregarding the fact that the alien's entry or residence is in violation of the law. This crime applies to any person, rather than just employers of illegal aliens. Courts have ruled that "encouraging" includes counseling illegal aliens to continue working in the U.S. or assisting them to complete applications with false statements or obvious errors. The fact that the alien is a refugee fleeing persecution is not a defense to this felony, since U.S. law and the UN Protocol on Refugees both require that a refugee must report to immigration authorities without delay upon entry to the U.S.
The penalty for felony harboring is a fine and imprisonment for up to five years. The penalty for felony alien smuggling is a fine and up to ten years' imprisonment. Where the crime causes serious bodily injury or places the life of any person in jeopardy, the penalty is a fine and up to twenty years' imprisonment. If the criminal smuggling or harboring results in the death of any person, the penalty can include life imprisonment. Convictions for aiding, abetting, or conspiracy to commit alien smuggling or harboring, carry the same penalties. Courts can impose consecutive prison sentences for each alien smuggled or harbored. A court may order a convicted smuggler to pay restitution if the alien smuggled qualifies as a victim under the Victim and Witness Protection Act. Conspiracy to commit crimes of sheltering, harboring, or employing illegal aliens is a separate federal offense punishable by a fine of up to $10,000 or five years' imprisonment.
Enforcement
A person or entity having knowledge of a violation or potential violation of employer sanctions provisions may submit a signed written complaint to the INS office with jurisdiction over the business or residence of the potential violator, whether an employer, employee, or agent. The complaint must include the names and addresses of both the complainant and the violator, and detailed factual allegations, including date, time, and place of the potential violation, and the specific conduct alleged to be a violation of employer sanctions. By regulation, the INS will only investigate third-party complaints that have a reasonable probability of validity. Designated INS officers and employees, and all other officers whose duty it is to enforce criminal laws, may make an arrest for violation of smuggling or harboring illegal aliens.
State and local law enforcement officials have the general power to investigate and arrest violators of federal immigration statutes without prior INS knowledge or approval, as long as they are authorized to do so by state law. There is no extant federal limitation on this authority. The 1996 immigration control legislation passed by Congress was intended to encourage states and local agencies to participate in the process of enforcing federal immigration laws. Immigration officers and local law enforcement officers may detain an individual for a brief warrantless interrogation where circumstances create a reasonable suspicion that the individual is illegally present in the U.S. Specific facts constituting a reasonable suspicion include evasive, nervous, or erratic behavior; dress or speech indicating foreign citizenship; and presence in an area known to contain a concentration of illegal aliens. Hispanic appearance alone is not sufficient. Immigration officers and police must have a valid warrant or valid employer's consent to enter workplaces or residences. Any vehicle used to transport or harbor illegal aliens, or used as a substantial part of an activity that encourages illegal aliens to come to or reside in the U.S. may be seized by an immigration officer and is subject to forfeiture. The forfeiture power covers any conveyances used within the U.S.
RICO -- Citizen Recourse
Private persons and entities may initiate civil suits to obtain injunctions and treble damages against enterprises that conspire to or actually violate federal alien smuggling, harboring, or document fraud statutes, under the Racketeer-Influenced and Corrupt Organizations (RICO). The pattern of racketeering activity is defined as commission of two or more of the listed crimes. A RICO enterprise can be any individual legal entity, or a group of individuals who are not a legal entity but are associated in fact, AND CAN INCLUDE NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS.
Tax Crimes
Employers who aid or abet the preparation of false tax returns by failing to pay income or Social Security taxes for illegal alien employees, or who knowingly make payments using false names or Social Security numbers, are subject to IRS criminal and civil sanctions. U.S. nationals who have suffered intentional discrimination because of citizenship or national origin by an employer with more than three employees may file a complaint within 180 days of the discriminatory act with the Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices, U.S. Department of Justice. In additon to the federal statutes summarized, state laws and local ordinances controlling fair labor practices, workers compensation, zoning, safe housing and rental property, nuisance, licensing, street vending, and solicitations by contractors may also apply to activities that involve illegal aliens.

AmericanMade, I certainly understand where you are coming from, although I haven't reached that point yet. But, when I am finished reading this Strangers No Longer document I just might finally be there.

What infuriates me is that it is all one-sided. They speak of how the "migrants" face discrimination and hostility when they reach "their new homes", but there isn't any acknowledgement of the racists within their ranks. There is abundant sympathy for their plight, but no mention whatsoever of the plight of ordinary Americans who are adversely affected by illegal immigration. I mean, aren't they supposed to be representing ALL Catholics, not just ones south of the border? It just makes you feel like you are chopped liver.

And like I said, the Catholic church is NOT the only church supporting amnesty and illegals; at my City Council meeting this week, we had representatives from various denominations, including the Episcopal, Methodist, Presbyterian who were speaking out against the illegal immigration ordinance that was being considered. So, I'm not into the Catholic bigotry thing. But, as a Catholic, I am very distressed and angered by the position they have taken on this issue.