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He's on illegal immigration now.
Rather listen to paint peel than listen to Pence. :lol:
This is interesting. 8)
I hope Laura reeeeems him!
L: Roy Blunt defended earmarks
P: doubling debt
medicare
100% increase in fed dept of ED
L: critics
you're a self promoter
we need more self promoters in the repub party
P: get teased
host a radio show in Indiana & a TV show
electoral defeat was spending and the other part was the Americans
didn't know what we did right
traditional moral values {?}
no clear message
OFFERING MYSELF TO BE MINORITY LEADER
{oye}
L: IMMIGRATION COMPROMISE
temp status
leave country & ellis island centers
TANCREDO IS SUPPORTING YOU
P: Tancredo and Steve KING are supporting me
I stood firmly
Always about border security
Debates about comprehensive are a thing of the past
We need a minority leader that is willing to take on this president when he's wrong
will never go along with amnesty {right}
I'M ALL ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW
L: are you for a filibuster for temp worker
P: I reject amnesty
{what bull shit}
We don't have filibusters in the House
L: support Senate fillibuster?
P: oppose no child left behind
oppose prescription drug
demonstrated history of opposing this pres when he's wrong
I will do that on AMNESTY {barf}
L: any bluedogs you might be able to work with?
P: opportunity we have
have great relationships
repub minority needs to look for strategic coalitions to put our fiscal house in order
{illegals? eh?}
PLAIN BS & DOUBLESPEAK
Rummy?
P: astonished to learn that the secdef resigned was formulated weeks before the election. blah blah
I don't think this election was about Iraq or scandle
It was about spending/fiscal etc.
.
Oh well, so much for that.
Thanks Sis. That sucked out loud.
Ya know, I've always held Laura above most of the others but this was a big disappointment.
She didn't even get him on the ridiculous ELLIS ISLAND CENTERS & the manipulation of the proposed legislation that would eventually allow 100 MILLION ILLEGALS POOR IN as LEGALS.
She's now on my shit list.
.
Sis, I missed this. So Pence is saying "no amnesty" but he's still promoting his Ellis Island amnesty plan?
Actually, he side stepped EVERY question pertaining to guest worker/temp worker and said several times:
"I'm against amnesty."
I call that, LYING & MANIPULATING
What a putz!
.
I can see where Tom Tancredo is supporting him though. We are in a precarious position. I agree that we should not compromise, but I trust Tom Tancredo's judgement on this. I cannot see where, why or how we should not trust his judgement.
Listened to Hewitt tonight. He was asking what will you be willing to compromise on to keep Hillary from getting in the White House. It is not going to make adifference in 2008 who is President unless it is someone who will go to the wall for sovereignty. There is no choice. We'll be standing at the end of the road then. Either the Republicans get a hard conservative offering together or it is all over. There will be no nation.
Come on back.
LegalUSCitizen wrote:
I tend to agree, I'm sure Rep. Tancredo knows what he is doing. Some individuals fail to understand that you can't rule out a person just because you don't agree with him 100%. The mindset that some had regarding the support of the lesser of two evils during the past elections really hurt our cause in my opinion. I remember hearing several people saying that they refused to vote on the lesser of two evils, blah, blah, blah, I'm going to vote Independent, blah, blah, or not vote, blah, blah...... Well, we can all see what that way of thinking achieved for us. Sometimes we're placed in a position where the only choice possible is the lesser of two evils. That is a fact of life that people need to understand. I don't like Pence either and I pefer not to have him serving the Republican party in a position of authority, but the alternative choice must be considered and the situation weighed appropriately.Quote:
I can see where Tom Tancredo is supporting him though.
Now, with that said - is Pence better than the alternative choice? Not that it really matters, because we don't get a say anyways. :?
So, you're willing to let the "Pence Bill" go thru without even understanding what kind of fire you'll be jumping into? You're willing to take another "lesser Evil" that turns out to be the worse Evil? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by MW
Well, I was ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO REFUSED TO VOTE FOR KEAN.
Ya know why? Cause Kean would give an AMNESTY faster than that bum Menendez. Bought and paid for by the BUSH FAMILY. Ya know why? Cause his family is connected to this entire Globalist plan for the SPP and NAU.
So, yup, ya got that right! I WOULDN'T VOTE REPUB Kean for love nor money only to further slit my throat. We know what we have with menendez and he's close to being cut off at the knees. I'll take that educated chance.
Furthermore, which is extremely interesting, in our state, the hispanic area which just happens to be filled with ILLEGALS is the area that put the Dem over the top. Hmmmm, wonder what happened.
.
All in how you look at it.
The lesser of two evils or
The best choice between two offerings
The thing is the NAU is set up for 2010. There is really no time left to mess with a weak Republican candidate? I see one more shot as far as political action goes.
LL and MW I agree with you both 100%. We've got to get smart real fast or this will be the final leg for our country. We must not and we cannot let that happen.
STAND UP AMERICA !! YOU'RE ABOUT TO LOSE THE WAR DON'T LOSE OUR COUNTRY TOO !!
I think I'm disagreeing somewhat with MW. I don't see us having the luxury anymore of accepting a compromise candidate. Weak Republican or Hillary running the NAU. Does it matter?Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalUSCitizen
Somebody help me out. What are we talking about here? What exactly is Tancredo saying about any of this? Is Pence saying that his plan is the official plan now? That by Tancredo and King endorsing him they are now supporting The Ellis Island Centers too? Or are we talking about something else?
Sis, with all due respect....what do you propose we do? This is the Congress which we have to work with. We cannot go down there on the floor of the House and the Senate and stand up for ourselves. We must find those who will represent us and get them to work with us.
I say we work on those who will filibuster and we work to get them to move closer to our stand. I do not see how alienating them will help us.
Also we know that WE must stay united. We cannot branch off from each other.
We have to make decisions and choices and then we have to give it everything in our power.
All I ask is what would you propose with the turn of events of the election and the fact that time is of the essence?
2ndamendsis wrote:
My God, why in the world do you insist on twisting my words. You know good and well I don't support the Pence/Hutchinson plan. Please read what I typed again. You took the whole meaning of my words out of context. My whole point is, we don't always have the choice to choose between someone that toes our line 100% and someone that doesn't. Let me ask you a hypothetical question, if given a choice between Rep. Pence or Rep. Mel Martinez, who would you rather have? Just as I thought. :wink:Quote:
So, you're willing to let the "Pence Bill" go thru without even understanding what kind of fire you'll be jumping into?
AltruCt wrote:
No, Tancredo and King are not saying they endorse the Pence plan by endorsing him. Their stance is Pence is better than the alternative (not his plan, but the person). Don't read too much into the obvious twisting of my words. :wink:Quote:
Somebody help me out. What are we talking about here? What exactly is Tancredo saying about any of this? Is Pence saying that his plan is the official plan now? That by Tancredo and King endorsing him they are now supporting The Ellis Island Centers too? Or are we talking about something else?
Within the time frame I believe we're working within, what difference does the choice of losers make?Quote:
if given a choice between Rep. Pence or Rep. Mel Martinez, who would you rather have? Just as I thought.
Well, one thing is for sure. WE must work together. WE must stay united. It's okay for us to rangle back and forth because we all have important points which no matter how unpleasant we must hear and consider. We must look at every possibility facing us and together we will make the best decisions.
I am convinced that it is our very unity as Americans that is the best hope for our country. 8)
Well, I'm OK Just knocking info around with my Brothers and Sisters.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalUSCitizen
Thank you!
I thought y'all were saying Tancredo is endorsing the Pence plan.
In light of him crumpling all up the other day, I think it is kind of assumed that's what is happening? At least for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlturaCt
We have the most up to date, intelligent and informed Americans in the country here. We can agree, we can disagree.....all that matters is that before time runs out that we put it all together and that we push our well thought out and planned agenda through.Quote:
Well, I'm OK Just knocking info around with my Brothers and Sisters.
An agenda for the people and by the people and I do mean the AMERICAN PEOPLE.
2ndamendsis, let me attempt to put the Kean vice Menendez issue behind us once and for all so there will no longer be a need to highjack another thread on the issue. Please read:
As you can see, Menendez and Kean have very different ideas on how to deal with the illegal immigrant issue. By the way, you're the one that brought Kean and Menendez into this discussion, not I. :wink:Quote:
ROBERT MENENDEZ
QUESTION 6 RESPONSE
Click here to read the full question.
Over fifty years ago, my parents left the only home they'd ever known and came to America in search of freedom and opportunity. They settled here in New Jersey.
My mother was a seamstress, my father a carpenter. My parents raised me to honor the value of hard work, respect my neighbors and take care of my community. They also taught me to always stand up for what is right. No matter what.
Today, in the U.S Senate, I stand up for each and every American — whether your ancestors came through Ellis Island, over on the Mayflower, or if you yourself came here to start a new life.
America has a proud tradition as a nation of both immigrants and laws. Unfortunately, our immigration system is broken. We need tough, smart, and comprehensive reform that preserves family values, keeps us safe, rewards hard work and sacrifice and benefits all Americans. I support Senator John McCain's legislation to enforce our laws, secure our borders and protect our national security.
I want an immigration policy that reflects current economic realities and respects the core values of family unity and fundamental fairness. I've voted to add thousands of Border Patrol agents and immigration enforcement investigators, as well as increase the use of aerial vehicles and sensors. I support toughening penalties for those caught evading immigration officers or smuggling people across the border. We must also crack down on companies illegally hiring undocumented workers — something that is long overdue. I support creating a temporary guest-worker program and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants if — among other things — they pay a fine, learn English, undergo a criminal background check and go to the back of the line. Unfortunately, these sensible reforms were beat back by the right-wing Bush Republicans.
We must enforce our laws and secure our borders. In 2004, I helped negotiate Intelligence Reform legislation which contained tough, smart new measures adding thousands of additional border patrol agents, detention beds and Immigration and Customs investigators. The legislation criminalized the smuggling of immigrants - just as the 9/11 Commission recommended. Unfortunately, the Bush Congress — which my opponent longs to be a part of — chose not to fully fund all these tough measures to ensure our nation's safety.
It's not enough to only rely on enforcement. Over the past two decades, government has tripled the number of Border Patrol agents and increased the enforcement budget ten-fold. Despite these efforts, 12 million have overstayed their visas or are undocumented. Clearly, an enforcement-only approach — which Tom Kean Jr. supports — has not worked.
Yet, this myopic, single-barreled approach is exactly what my opponent says should be America's plan to deal with immigration. At least that's what he says now. Last Spring, Tom Kean Jr. called for a path towards legal status for illegal immigrants if they paid a fine — similar to the bi-partisan bill I voted for. However, just two weeks later — when asked if legislation should include deporting all undocumented immigrants — Tom Kean Jr. got back to the Bush-Cheney-Rove script he's relied on throughout the campaign and said "I think that should be included in the bill, yes."
Tom Kean Jr. supports legislation — pushed by the Bush Republicans — which makes a felon of anyone undocumented. This impractical "solution" would bring about the most massive roundup and deportation in the history of the world. The Kean Jr. "plan" is simply not possible due to economic impact alone. In fact, at current rate of deportation, it would take over 70 years to deport 12 million undocumented people.
The Bush Republicans' plan — which my opponent supports — would also criminalize citizens if they helped an undocumented immigrant in any way — even if they weren't aware of it. Anyone from a priest to a rape crisis counselor could be found guilty merely by providing basic services, food or shelter. This is simply contrary to America's values.
Fully securing our borders is impossible unless efforts include a guest-worker program and encourage immigrants to come out of the shadows and legalize their status. Many crossing our borders come looking for work. Most have committed no crime other than entering illegally. By coupling enhanced enforcement efforts with new immigration and labor laws, we won't only regulate how workers come into our country, but finally give our border and law enforcement agencies a fighting chance to fully do their jobs. We must create an equal playing field to make sure American workers' wages, benefits and health/safety standards are not undercut. We must secure our borders while modernizing immigration and labor laws.
Immigrants spend long hours working hard at jobs many Americans would rather not do. They contribute to our economy, provide for their families and want a better life for their children. It's in our best interest that they're able to participate and contribute to our society — especially with a 4.7% employment rate and a declining ratio of American workers to retirees.
Nonetheless, I believe undocumented workers — including those with children born in America — should be sent to the back of the immigration line. We can't create a system that would compel people to rush and have children so they can go to the front of the line. Those legally awaiting a green card deserve to be rewarded for following U.S immigration policies.
Four months ago, a Herald News editorialist wrote that my opponent "is beating the wrong drum...a U.S. senator from New Jersey or any other state should not be advocating limiting freedom and access to the American dream. Most New Jerseyans do not have famous last names, but they have an equal right to the American dream."
Tom Kean Jr. takes his talking points on immigration straight from the Bush-Rove White House — just as he does on every other issue. Tom Kean Jr. does not support common-sense reform. The only plan my opponent has is to unrealistically deport all undocumented workers. We need a comprehensive, sensible plan to reform immigration law that is safe, orderly, and reflects both economic realities and American values.
LEGAL,Quote:
Originally Posted by LegalUSCitizen
you know that I never discussed NOT working with what we have.
What I tried to explain -several times - in my above post is that KEAN was as bad or worse than menendez. PERIOD.........no grey area here.
He was bought and paid for by the bush family. no matter how we'd try to work with him, his loyalty would only be to bush and NOT the people of NJ. He's a KEAN. Kean family. globalists........friends of Lee Hamilton and other not very nice people who are pulling these strings.
The above has nothing to do with working with concervative repubs. Kean would not be working with the concervative repubs.
This was NOT a case of "lesser of two evils"...........they were and are the SAME EVIL. Only positive is that menendez has very serious charges hanging over his head which could help to neutralize him.
TANCREDO: as far as King and Tancredo go, I'm holding my opinion until I see what cards they play. Time will tell if they've been compromised or not. My trust is very limited when government is concerned. I'm very disappointed in Tancredo but I also understand that there just might be an ulterior motive that he's not willing to unveil at the moment. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
.
Does anyone think there is a possibility that some Republicans may take a harder line to spite Bush for what he did to throw the election?Quote:
We must look at every possibility facing us and together we will make the best decisions.
I haven't heard Tancredo spell out what he thinks is the plan - probably because it's not clear. If I had to guess, I'd say he and some of the other IRC members are probably working on Pence to come up with some sort of proposal.Quote:
Somebody help me out. What are we talking about here? What exactly is Tancredo saying about any of this? Is Pence saying that his plan is the official plan now? That by Tancredo and King endorsing him they are now supporting The Ellis Island Centers too? Or are we talking about something else?
Sis
I think after reading MW's article and taking what W posted about Kean into consideration we can all agree that we're talking about a pair of turds in NJ.
I am willing to give T & K the benefit of the doubt as their information is certainly superior to mine.
I understand, Sis. Well, I guess by next Christmas something will be figured out !! BTW, I mean the Christmas of 2007...not 2006. :lol: :roll:
Goodnight you guys !! Hasta manana. :lol: :lol: :roll:
(I knew that would get ya'll) :wink:
Sis - I couldn't have said it better myself. We need to make sure we know for sure what is being served before we decide to eat. I don't care who is in the Senate or House This is a government of the people. If they try to cram Amnesty down our throats they got trouble!Quote:
as far as King and Tancredo go, I'm holding my opinion until I see what cards they play. Time will tell if they've been compromised or not. My trust is very limited when government is concerned. I'm very disappointed in Tancredo but I also understand that there just might be an ulterior motive that he's not willing to unveil at the moment. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
loservillelabor wrote:
I think we can all agree on that. :wink:Quote:
I think after reading MW's article and taking what W posted about Kean into consideration we can all agree that we're talking about a pair of turds in NJ.
Yes on the turds, lol butQuote:
Originally Posted by loservillelabor
Who is T & K?
.
Tancredo & King
:lol: Okey DokeyQuote:
Originally Posted by loservillelabor
Yup, I'm waiting this one out in all fairness.
MW:
Kean was a piece of garbage to put it as kindly as I can. William Gheen already exposed this CFR thug for what he is days before the election. Don't tell me he had opposing views because Menandez said so. Kean supported Bush's guest worker program and family reunification. How is that suppose to be any better than Menandez?
Seriously a Republican who supports amnesty and a Democrat who supports amnesty, what's the difference? There's no lesser of the two evils, they are all the same evil. I've also told you that supporting the lesser of the two evils is actually bad because usually the lesser of the two evils gets their stuff passed through congress. I heard this pathetic excuse for an argument pushed by the neocons to get Bush elected twice and I'm not going to hear it anymore. Voting for the lesser of the two evils is what got us in this situation our countries in now, lets keep going down that path.
The NWO can push their two lousy candidates on us all they want, but it doesn't mean I have to be an accomplice to them getting elected by casting a vote for them, thus hijacking our movement.
Work with this Congress? On what negotiating the terms of our surrender? You must be joking right? No it's not we work with them, it's they work for us. They are suppose to serve the American people, we elected them. Have we forgotten this already? We don't work for them, we tell them what to do and it's our freaking duty to hold them accountable when they don't do their jobs.Quote:
This is the Congress which we have to work with. We cannot go down there on the floor of the House and the Senate and stand up for ourselves. We must find those who will represent us and get them to work with us.