Thread: 4 Guardsmen were surrounded during face-off with armed men

I am thoroughly disgusted with this. My country was invaded by an armed force and the reaction by military leaders is they’re happy that our “national guard” unit retreated!

It’s insane to tell the NG that if they encounter an armed force they are to cower away unless they are shot and then it’s OK to protect themselves, if they are still alive and able to do so. Of course if they do shoot back they will be questioned, investigated and raked over the coals looking for any way to convict and imprison them.

At the same time we have this disgusting idiot Sinema from Arizona describing the MinuteMen as “scary” and wanting to imprison them if they arm themselves while watching the border.

Welcome to ALIPAC bandx!

I feel the same way too.

Handbanana, I'm glad I aint.

Dixie

Originally Posted by MountainDog

Well put MW.
I don't believe anybody here likes what happened but at least none of our guys got hurt, these guys are operating under military orders and are subject to jail time if they break them. I also have no idea of the type of training these guys have, you can teach anybody how to shoot a M 16 in minutes but it takes special training to handle armed conflicts, some people get down right rattled when folks start shooting at them and if they are not trained in how to handle the situation they can be a danger to their own people or themselves or at the very least useless.
I would like to see these guys well trained and given orders to protect the border at all cost but I seriously doubt that will happen.

MountainDog, I have no doubt that one day our border will be militarized by men with the best of weapons, that day will come immdeiately after a dirty bomb goes off somewhere in our country!

I feel the same way Nitty.

You could very well be right Nitty and if the government won't do it the people will.

Originally Posted by Beckyal

For all those who agree that retreating from armed Mexicans on American soil is OK, I have just one question. How far are we suppose to continue to retreat to? California for all intent and purpose is overrun from Mexico and nothing is being done except to ensure that when they leave there they receive more and more benefits from other states. Where are Americans going to be safe? Most of us are not armed and don't believe in violance but it seems that we are not being protected within our own borders.

In this instance, absolutely they did the right thing. In the future, however, I think that we need a new strategy. Makes me wonder how often this happens. I am grateful that the media picked up on this because oftentimes, this news is unreported. I don't understand why.

Originally Posted by Princess

What was successful about leaving these armed dangerous men on the loose to kill someone another day? Are we all crazy? There would of been a time when if someone came into the country illegally against our military they would of been blown to hell, and these men should of been. We are so weak. I hope no Mexican farts at them, they might injure themselves running away. George Bush, you are a traitor to our culture, our country, and our civilians.

I could not of side it better. But Bush's plan is to merge our nations into a north American union.

Originally Posted by Princess

What was successful about leaving these armed dangerous men on the loose to kill someone another day? Are we all crazy? There would of been a time when if someone came into the country illegally against our military they would of been blown to hell, and these men should of been. We are so weak. I hope no Mexican farts at them, they might injure themselves running away. George Bush, you are a traitor to our culture, our country, and our civilians.

This is how I've been feeling about this too. At this point, we have NO idea who these 8 men with automatic weapons and vests were. Were they even Mexican? If they had captured at least one of them, we'd know about what we are dealing with. This was definitely a test and they knew what they were doing.

Look how they fanned out to surround the National Guardsmen. Look how the now admit that they came within feet of them.

There is an evil motive here and all we here is that "they did the right thing by leaving the area."?

Report: Armed man came closer than reported to Guard troops on Mexico border

By: AMANDA LEE MYERS - Associated Press

PHOENIX -- A gunman in a group of six to eight men came within 35 feet of National Guardsmen watching the Mexican border earlier this month, according to a Guard report.

The four Guardsmen from Tennessee were manning an observation post near Sasabe on Jan. 3, looking for illegal border crossings. The men approached, split into two groups and surrounded the site, according to the report.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01 ... _20_07.txt

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Note: Comments reflect the views of readers and not necessarily those of the North County Times or its staff.

Skip wrote on January 20, 2007 11:36 PM:"I see this as an embarrassment to our country when our armed military is forced to run away, when armed aggressors are illegally crossing the border. Absolutely shameful."

Lone_Patriot wrote on January 20, 2007 11:39 PM:"it is a very sad day when American troops run from illegals... but we need to remember our government is thowing 2 border patrol agants in jail for standing up to illegals...."

April wrote on January 20, 2007 11:41 PM:"It appears that it is IMPORTANT to the government that the Border Patrol NOT be able to defend the border. The Border Patrol evidently has a whole different set of rules to go by than other law enforcement in our country, although I am sure their job is just as dangerous, if not more dangerous at times than regular law enforcement. Border Patrol Agents deserve a metal just for agreeing to be out there under those conditions!!!! "

Cindy wrote on January 20, 2007 11:46 PM:"This is all Bush's fault. He refuses to acknowledge the serious danger this country is in due to the invasion over the Mexican border. He has asked the guard to be mindless decorations at the border by refusing to allow them to do their job. They are only there to make the American people think he is actully doing something about the invasion. He is doing nothing!"

GATEKEEPER wrote on January 21, 2007 5:41 AM:"This should never happen! The National Gaurd should be able to apprehend these criminals with any force deemed. We need to give them the authorization to do what ever is necessary which included deadly force!"

P wrote on January 21, 2007 7:15 AM:"What an embarrassment! Why are the gaurdsman even there?"

Adam wrote on January 21, 2007 7:47 AM:"RUN AWAY! That's the story circulating in Mexico, about how our mighty military is guarding our Southern Border."

anniealone wrote on January 21, 2007 8:19 AM:"The National Gaurd troops are just following orders. Not their fault. Again, it is our government. Their mission SHOULD be to militarize the border. It can be done. What the hell are we waiting for?"

NG wrote on January 21, 2007 8:22 AM:"These men did the right thing, but don't it just gall the butt, to know this is happening on our side of the border and not a dam thing we can do about it! There will be more and more of these happenings until some of our National Guardsmen are shot or our border guards especially since our Gov. seems so prone to believe the word of these thugs, in our Presidents on words " by our own actions these thugs will be impowered. "

John wrote on January 21, 2007 8:22 AM:"Under the circumstances, not only did they follow orders but they did the right thing. They had a group of equal or greater numbers approach them. Had they stayed they would have disobeyed orders and all they could have done was challenged this group. Two things would have happend. One, the group would have ignored the challenge and turned around and we would have had the same results. Or, the group would have felt threatened and fired upon the Guard troops. Then we'd have both groups firing at each other, people getting hurt or killed and no doubt, American survivors getting Court Martialed for disobeying orders. "

lsmith wrote on January 21, 2007 8:23 AM:"I certainly don't blame the Guardsmen for retreating when outnumbered the way they were. Guardsmen shouldn't have been put in the position of feeling "physically threatened" in the first place. THANKS SENOR BUSH"

Beckyal wrote on January 21, 2007 8:26 AM:"For all those who agree that retreating from armed Mexicans on American soil is OK, I have just one question. How far are we suppose to continue to retreat to? California for all intent and purpose is overrun from Mexico and nothing is being done except to ensure that when they leave there they receive more and more benefits from other states. Where are Americans going to be safe? Most of us are not armed and don't believe in violance but it seems that we are not being protected within our own borders."

This is STUPID! wrote on January 21, 2007 8:55 AM:"They are probably our new neighbors!"

Skip wrote on January 21, 2007 1:03 PM:"RE: "We see this as a triumph of the training, discipline and professionalism of the Guardsmen performing this mission," the summary says. >>>> Translation : PLEASE LET US GET OUT OF THE WAY WHILE YOU ILLEGALLY CROSS OUR BORDER WITH DRUGS, WEAPONS, VIOLENCE, AND ILLEGAL ALIENS! What is our government doing?"

Adam wrote on January 21, 2007 1:09 PM:"If we had a fence, this incident would have never happened. If we had a fence the confrontation between the two Border Patrol Agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean would have never happened. They were in a life and death struggle, when the Illegal Alien drug smuggler, casually drove his van full of drugs across our wide-open border. All of Mexico and all of the activists openly decry the fence because they are afraid it will work."

Andy wrote on January 21, 2007 1:11 PM:"Why call them the National Guard???? I think National hall-monitors would be better. Don't bother giving them M-16s, just issue them thick glasses, a note pad, and a pencil to take names. The worse thing those mean ol bandidos would do to a group like that is give them a wedgie."

matthew wrote on January 21, 2007 1:13 PM:"I don't blame them, they are controled by George Bush. But 50 or 80 years ago, the guard would of did everything in there power to defend this country, with a president that cared enough to back them,. Today we got a President that hates this country, and wants to turn it into some kind of super state. Really we do live in interesting times."

kammie wrote on January 21, 2007 1:17 PM:"Re: "National Guardsmen were carrying loaded M-16s when they were approached by ARMED MEN..." "The men who approached the guardsmen were not aggressive and did not raise their WEAPONS..." "The people DISAPPEARED IN THE DARKNESS and were not apprehended..." : This is unreal!!! Can this really be happening? There are groups of armed men crossing our borders in the dark of night, encountering our National Guard and Border Patrol who allow them to DISAPPEAR IN THE DARKNESS without being apprehended!!!???? I read in another post that there is much "anger" in those of us who want our borders secured against illegal invaders. Angry?? Why shouldn't we be angry? Just because George Bush has deemed that the protectors of our United States border with Mexico will not be allowed to do their jobs??? Armed men are disappearing into our country in the darkness but we aren't supposed to be angry! "

Andy wrote on January 21, 2007 1:18 PM:"The difference between the National Guard and Boy Scouts, is that the Boy Scouts have adult leadership."

Where was the Media Coverage? wrote on January 21, 2007 1:33 PM:"This event happened on January 3, 2007 and it was not in the newspaper headlines, it was not on 60 Minutes, and the President never even acknowledged it. The NCT finally runs a little sidebar on it 17 days later. Doesn't anyone care that our National Guard and Border patrol are coming under attack from armed aggressors from south of the border? I am starting to think that it is too late to stand up to the millions of Illegal Aliens in this country because if they do not get what they want they will turn to protests, threats, and violence! Or is it already happening?"

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2007/01 ... _20_07.txt

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http://www.nctimes.com/opinion/

Where was the Media Coverage? wrote on January 21, 2007 1:33 PM:"This event happened on January 3, 2007 and it was not in the newspaper headlines, it was not on 60 Minutes, and the President never even acknowledged it. The NCT finally runs a little sidebar on it 17 days later. Doesn't anyone care that our National Guard and Border patrol are coming under attack from armed aggressors from south of the border? I am starting to think that it is too late to stand up to the millions of Illegal Aliens in this country because if they do not get what they want they will turn to protests, threats, and violence! Or is it already happening?"

Roberto wrote on January 21, 2007 2:09 PM:"Where was the Media Coverage: The answer to your question is that for the administration it would harm their efforts with the Security and Prosperity Partnership as well as their North American Community goal. The media did run it, but it was limited to the conservative media. The story would help to undermine the efforts of the liberal press to humiliate the United States government and it would force them to admit that the illegal immigration problem is more than just a bunch of poor people looking for work. Our wonderful Governor who is such great friends with the Mexican government and is bent on giving these people health care and what ever else needs to put more National Guard on the border, arm them, give offensive operations orders, and realistic rules of engagement. Better yet it is time for the United States citizens to rise up, get rid of Boxer, get rid of Fienstien, get rid of Bush and the governator and put some people in office who are going to work their constitutes instead of the unions and other special interest groups. This baloney that Mexico is our "friend" is just that baloney."

JS wrote on January 21, 2007 2:30 PM:"To be fair, the "armed men" have not been identified as "Mexican". They could have been ranchers, hunters, target shooters,"minutemen" or just plan campers. I take a weapon with me when I go into the bush. Possessing a weapon is not grounds to be fired upon by the military in our country (a little something called the 2nd Amendment). People are drawing conclusions without facts. As bad as the illegal crosing situation is, I doubt that smugglers will ever attempt to force their way across with gun battles. Why should they? Our doors are wide open"

To JS : wrote on January 21, 2007 2:47 PM:"From an Arizona newspaper: "Four armed Guardsmen from Tennessee were surrounded by 6-8 men carrying automatic weapons at one point during an encounter on Jan. 3 east of Sasabe. According to the statements, a group of six to eight men wearing ballistic vests and carrying automatic weapons approached an entrance identification team site manned by four National Guardsmen from Tennessee on that night.""