Arizona's SB 1070: Sheriff Joe Arpaio debates Kyrsten Sinema
CNN's American Morning with Kiran Chetry and John Roberts (April 21, 2010). Joe Arpaio and Kyrsten Sinema talk about SB1070.


ROBERTS: Latino members of Congress are calling on Arizona's governor to kill a state bill targeting immigration.

The law would make it a crime to be in the country illegally, require police to question anyone if there is a reason to suspect they're in the U.S. illegally. It would prohibit slowing or blocking traffic when searching for day laborers, make it a crime to give ride to someone that you know is an illegal immigrant, and it would fine towns and cities that don't enforce immigration laws.

It already passed Arizona's Senate and House, but governor Pat Brewer has not said if she's going to sign it or not, though there is some indication she may.

Here to talk more about this is Sheriff Joe Arpaio who supports the bill, and Arizona State Representative Kyrsten Sinema, who voted against it. Folks thanks so much for being with us this morning.

Representative Sinema, let's start with you. Some people have said this bill constitutes racial profiling. What do you say?

KYRSTEN SINEMA, ARIZONA STATE HOUSE: Well, one of the real difficult things about this bill is that it forces law enforcement into a catch-22. They have to engage in asking the status of anyone they come into contact with that they have reasonable suspicion to believe may be undocumented.

And if they fail to do so, any Arizona citizen can sue them for not enforcing all federal immigration laws. So they're really placed in a tough bind. They either will get sued for racial profiling by asking folks who are citizens to prove their documentation, or they'll get sued by citizens for not asking every person who appears to be of Latino descent to provide documentation.

ROBERTS: Sheriff Arpaio, this bill doesn't seem too far off from what you have been doing. This is a matter of common practice. What do you think of the bill? SHERIFF JOE ARPAIO, MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA: It gives us an extra tool, gives law enforcement the initiative to enforce the federal immigration laws and the new state laws. So I'm all for it.

We've arrested and detained 38,000 illegal aliens, and not much problem. I have a few complaints. The U.S. Justice Department a year and a half ago initiated a civil rights investigation against me. Nothing has happened. So we're doing the right thing.

ROBERTS: Now Cardinal Roger Mahoney of the Los Angeles archdiocese, sheriff, said that this bill would encourage, quote, "German-Nazi and Russian-communist techniques." What do you say to that?

ARPAIO: Well, I do know that the demonstrators call me Hitler. They have signs. They've call me every name in the book. That's sad, right here in phoenix. But that's ridiculous. Law enforcement are trained. They're professionals. They know how to enforce the laws. So I'm very comfortable with the new law.

ROBERTS: Representative Sinema, you heard the sheriff saying it gives them another tool to enforce the law. What's your point of view on that? Should law enforcement have every tool legally at their disposal to deal with this issue?

SINEMA: Well, absolutely. Law enforcement should have every tool that they need to do their job.

The problem is that this law doesn't provide those tools. What law enforcement really need are the resources and the tools to crack down on criminal syndicates at our border. We've seen an increase in drug running, gun running, and people running all over the border regions. And there are pieces of legislation that we can pass to actually help that problem.

I just passed a bill that was signed by the governor last week to help crack down on sex trafficking, which is a huge problem in our border. Those are the kinds of tools we need to offer to police officers.

Unfortunately, this bill really puts them in a tough bind and actually ties their hands, makes it more difficult for them to do their job appropriately.

ROBERTS: Sheriff Arpaio, what do you say to that?

ARPAIO: This is garbage. I was a director in Mexico City with the U.S. drug enforcement, spent 14 years at the border. Everybody talks about the border. That's a cop-out, because no one wants to talk about enforcing illegal immigration laws in the interior because of politics, they want amnesty. So it's always secure the border.

But we have criminals right here in Maricopa County, in our jails. We have over 50 people charged with murder that are illegals, violence and everything else. So we have to hit this problem on all levels. The border, yes, but how about inside the United States too? ROBERTS: Representative Sinema, what do you say about that? Sealing the border is one thing, but there are millions of people who are already here who are undocumented immigrants?

SINEMA: Well, I think that's a really important point. And one of the things that, you know, we have offered is that folks like Sheriff Joe should consider enforcing some of the tools and using some of the skills they already have. For instance, here in Maricopa County, there are over 40,000 unserved warrants by violent felons.

ARPAIO: Oh, my gosh.

SINEMA: And we would prefer that Sheriff Joe spend his time issuing those warrants and tracking down those felons rather than finding opportunities to arrest janitors in the city of Mesa.

ARPAIO: Oh, you know, we do crime suppression. We get warrants and drugs and everything else when we're out there.

That's the old cop-out that you've been saying, and your open border people. And I'm not even responsible for the 40,000 warrants. But that's all you can say.

They're calling me a racist and you demonstrating with the demonstrators, Sharpton coming down here. Everybody demonstrated against me because I'm doing my job and I will continue to do my job. And I'll tell you one thing. When this new law is passed, I will continue to enforce that law also.

ROBERTS: Well, Sheriff Arpaio let me ask you this question, because many people have raised this, that it now becomes law that if you are a documented immigrant you need to carry that documentation with you or even, you know, if you're a citizen, you've got to have proof that you're a legal resident of this country.

If you come across someone who you suspect may be illegal simply because maybe they're Hispanic and they don't have documentation but they are either a legal immigrant or they're an American citizen, what do you do with them?

ARPAIO: Well, what we've been doing with them. We either arrest them pursuant to our law enforcement on other types of crimes or we have trained -- I did have 100 deputies trained by Homeland Security. Of course they took away that authority. But I have 900 deputies trained.

So we know how to enforce. We know the protocol. We know the criteria when we come across people that may be here illegally in the country.

ROBERTS: But can you say all law enforcement will be that adept at enforcing and applying this law?

ARPAIO: Well, they're trained all the time on all types of laws. I hope they will be trained. I hope there are no incidents from higher-ups to keep them from enforcing the new law. ROBERTS: And Representative Sinema, obviously it looks like there will be legal challenges against this bill. Some members of Congress insist federal law trumps state law, so that may be one of the first challenges. Do you expect this law if the governor signs it into law, do you expect that it will survive the legal challenges?

SINEMA: Well, I anticipate that this law will not survive the legal challenges. I'm also a constitutional attorney, and there are a number of constitutional flaws and problems with this law, one of which you just mentioned, which is the issue of requiring documentation by individuals who may or may not have status in this country.

There are a number of people who have legal status in this country who have no documentation, are not offered any by the government to prove that. An example would be the wife of a work visa holder. She's allowed to be here in this country, but she has no paper to prove that. And just two weeks ago in the city of Mesa, a tourist from Mexico was detained for two hours when officers were unable to recognize his tourist visa for the legal document that it was. And unfortunately, that represents an unconstitutional loss of liberty for that individual.

So I think we'll see significant challenges, and I do not anticipate that this law will survive those challenges.

ROBERTS: All right, Representative Sinema and Sheriff Joe Arpaio, thanks for joining us this morning.

SINEMA: My pleasure.
ARPAIO: Thank you.
ROBERTS: Good discussion, appreciate it.

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