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  1. #1
    Senior Member HAPPY2BME's Avatar
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    ATF: 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from US

    ATF: 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from US


    thehill.com
    By Jordy Yager - 04/26/12

    Nearly 70 percent of all guns found in Mexico came from the U.S. over the past four years, according to data released by the federal government on Thursday.

    More than 68,000 of the 99,691 firearms that were recovered between 2007 and 2011, and submitted to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) for trace testing, were either made in the U.S. or legally brought into the U.S. at one point, according to the agency.

    Both gun-rights supporters and opponents have used the ATF’s numbers in years past to argue for their cause.

    Gun-rights advocates say the numbers do not accurately reflect the true number of guns found in Mexico, which they argue is much higher. But instead, the ATF's data reflect only the number of guns that were submitted for traces. Some gun advocates in the U.S. have argued further that Democrats try to use the inflated numbers to make their case for stricter gun laws.

    But groups in favor of curbing illegal guns look at the ATF’s numbers as an accurate reflection of the U.S.’s largely invisible role in the bloody drug violence that has plagued Mexico for the past five years and resulted in the killing of more than 47,000 people.

    In 2011, the ATF recovered and traced about 20,000 guns that were found in Mexico. About half of those – 10,514 – were manufactured in the U.S., and nearly 4,000 of the traced guns had been previously brought into the U.S. legally, according to the ATF’s numbers. About 3,600 of the guns found in 2011 were made outside of the U.S.

    Heavier powered guns have been turning up more often in the ATF’s recovery and tracing efforts, the agency said.

    “Law enforcement in Mexico now report that certain types of rifles, such as the AK and AR variants with detachable magazines, are used more frequently to commit violent crime by drug trafficking organizations,” said the ATF in a press release.

    The ATF has come under fire over the past 16 months for a failed operation it conducted to try and stop the flow of guns from the U.S. to Mexico. Operation Fast and Furious authorized the sale of nearly 2,000 weapons in the Southwest border region to known and suspected straw buyers for Mexican drug cartels.

    The operation’s theory revolved around tracking those guns through the hands of cartel members in an effort to dismantle the entire network. But ATF agents were not given permission or resources to follow the gun buyers, allowing the guns to disappear, with only the hope of recovering them later for tracing at a crime scene or police bust.

    Congressional Republicans have relentlessly investigated the issue. The top two officials at the ATF stepped down from their positions as a result, as did the U.S. Attorney for Arizona, who provided legal advice to operational agents on the ground.

    Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) has requested thousands of documents from the Justice Department about the operation and has threatened to hold Attorney General in contempt if he does not get them.

    source: ATF: 70 percent of guns found in Mexico come from US - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
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  2. #2
    Senior Member ReggieMay's Avatar
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    How many of those came from the U.S. government?
    "A Nation of sheep will beget a government of Wolves" -Edward R. Murrow

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  3. #3
    Senior Member HAPPY2BME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReggieMay View Post
    How many of those came from the U.S. government?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    Darrell Issa is working exhaustively in his attempts to get to the bottom of this. It may end the political careers of two professional politicians (an U.S. Attorney General, a sitting U.S. President, and possibly a U.S. Sec of State and Homeland Security head). That is why it is imperative these answers are flushed out and prosecuted before the next presidential election.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member oldguy's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that number 70% is the serial numbers provided via the Mexican goverment, stats can get weird when provided by any government.
    I'm old with many opinions few solutions.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Newmexican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy View Post
    Keep in mind that number 70% is the serial numbers provided via the Mexican government, stats can get weird when provided by any government.
    They are also including guns from Foreign Military Sales to Mexico that could go back over 20 years. Weapons sold through Foreign Military Sales and approved by the State Department are meticulously tracked and the serial numbers recorded.

    If 68,000 illegal guns were going to Mexico, how would they KNOW where they all came from if they weren't in possession of the serial numbers. Many weapons sold to other South American countries through military sales that have found their way to Mexico are still counted a coming from the US.

    The question should be "How many were sold legally to Mexico, that were lost or stolen from the Mexican military"?

    This tells me that they should track the arms that they buy for the military, they seem to be getting used for nefarious purposes.

    I feel this is another propaganda attempt by Napolitano and Holder to go after 2 amendment rights by blowing up numbers.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member oldguy's Avatar
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    quote(I feel this is another propaganda attempt by Napolitano and Holder to go after 2 amendment rights by blowing up numbers.)quote


    Exactly, and to take heat off there own gun running or perhaps worse a scheme pitting one cartel against the other by providing weapons IMO.
    I'm old with many opinions few solutions.

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