Thread: Court decide if ill imm use of social security #'s ID theft

Published: 10.20.2008

Court to decide if illegal immigrants' use of social security numbers is ID theft
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON— The Supreme Court agreed Monday to decide whether people picked up on immigration violations also can face charges of identity theft if they use Social Security and other identification numbers that belong to others.
Federal appeals courts have split over whether the defendant must know that the phony ID numbers belong to a real person and the court said it will resolve the question.
Federal prosecutors have increasingly been bringing the more serious identity theft charges against undocumented immigrants, including many who were arrested in raids on meatpacking plants.
Defense lawyers have argued that their clients should not be charged with stealing someone else’s identity because the immigrants only were seeking documentation that would allow them to work. They didn’t know if the numbers were fictitious or belonged to someone else, their lawyers say.
The Bush administration, however, has said that it doesn’t matter under federal law.
The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, based in St. Louis, agreed with the administration and upheld the conviction of Ignacio Carlos Flores-Figueroa.
Flores-Figueroa, a Mexican national, worked at a steel plant in East Moline, Ill., since 2000. Originally, he worked there under an assumed name, and false Social Security and alien registration numbers. In 2006, he told his employer he wanted to be known by his real name and submitted new identification documents.
This time, though, the Social Security number belonged to someone else, and his green card number was that of yet another person. Suspicious, the employer contacted immigration authorities, who arrested Flores-Figueroa.
The five-count indictment against him included two counts of aggravated identity theft.
Federal appeals courts based in Atlanta and Richmond also have ruled in the government’s favor in similar cases, while the appeals court in Washington, D.C., has sided with defendants.
The case, which will be argued next year, is Flores-Figueroa v. U.S., 08-108.
http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/hourlyupdate/263264.php

Ignorance or Feigned Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Soon they will be stealing from department stores and saying they didnt know whos it was and that they just wanted something to wear...Bogus lame Illegals and their sob stories and excuses...

No more. Only two ways to deal with Illegals. They can leave or we can throw them out...Cut the BS already.

Well, let's hope the Supreme Court does the correct thing. I am still angry of the Kelo vs. New London case, about eminent domain taking a person's waterfront property and giving it to a private developer to build a mall, all for the public good (and not to mention for the good of the developer's pocketbook.)

This is a joke, but will be interesting to see how the court decides this one , since if you did not get your ID at the DMV or your SS number from the SS office then it evidently is no good, right, or are we all allowed to purchase this stuff now in back rooms or on street corners across America

This should not even be in question!

I cannot even believe this has to go to the Supreme Court to be decided upon! If your utilizing someone else's identity, you have assumed their identity, irrespective of your intent!

Another way to look at it is that you have assumed an identity that is not yours, in order to illegally secure work in this country! The fact of whether the person's identity you assumed was real or not should be of little concern.

Just another example of how crazy this who issue has become in this country regarding illegal invaders and the protections they seem to enjoy, as they continue to break one law after another in this country!

Well we did have a president that didn't know what "is" is.
They just need to make a law that if you file a stupid suit, you will be charged for ALL COURT COST" at a tripple cost rate.
No brainier, guildy. felony, all asset sized, deported!

Making up a social security number and using it is very damaging to the person it belongs to. It's theft. I don't care if the number belongs to a dead person because that can screw with the estate and widows. It's never a victimless act!

Dixie

NoBueno wrote:

I cannot even believe this has to go to the Supreme Court to be decided upon!

Me neither. As another poster said, this is a no brainer! Ignorance of the law is never an acceptable defense.

Top Court to Hear Immigrant's Appeal in Identity-Theft Case

Tuesday, October 21, 2008; Page A10

The Supreme Court accepted a case yesterday that could impact the government's crackdown on illegal immigration, agreeing to review whether prosecutors must prove that defendants in aggravated identity-theft cases knew they were victimizing real people.

The justices will hear the appeal of Ignacio Flores-Figueroa, a Mexican illegal immigrant who used false identification to get a job at a steel plant. He was convicted of aggravated identity theft, a charge created in 2004 that carries a mandatory two-year prison term. It is increasingly being used against those picked up in federal raids on work sites that employ illegal immigrants.

Flores-Figueroa argued that the government failed to prove that he knew the fraudulent documents belonged to a real person as opposed to being fabricated. Lower courts in the case, accepting the Justice Department's position, ruled that the government did not have to prove that.
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Overall, three appellate courts have rendered decisions backing the government; three have ruled otherwise. The Supreme Court is expected to resolve the dispute.

A loss for the government, experts said, would devastate its ability to use aggravated identity-theft charges against illegal immigrants because most of them do not know whether their fake IDs belong to someone else.

-- Jerry Markon

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03508.html

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